Why oh why does BR not use his subs more effectively. Robert was struggling all game and we later find he injured his hip. So why did he not go off earlier? He was doing nothing really. Also Lee picked up an ankle knock and he was also not subbed. Given the poor game, their loss wouldn't have made much difference.

About 3/4 way through the game, it was crying out for a sub to shake things up a bit as Derby were really threatening. Yet Lua Lua comes on for one minute or so! He can't get into a game a that point but he has the potential to really turn things on when defenders legs are tired. It really frustrates me.

As for the game - I've read the thread. It WAS rubbish but still 3 points. As for Shay, well what a little star.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2001

Answers

It's the same every match Lynda.

Bobby waits and waits then brings the subs on too late.

Lua Lua should have been on with 20 minutes left, not 3 minutes.

The Manure game last season was one where an opportunity was missed, he brought on Glass, Cordone and Lua Lua - all three made an instant impact but they were only on a matter of minutes. If they'd be brought on with 15-20 minutes to go, who knows what would have happened.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2001

YBR is not alone in this respect. KK was exactly the same. It seems like the manager thinks to himself "That's my best team out there so I won't change the tactics 'cos it will look bad on my first decision." Sorry, I'd rather see a manager willing to adapt rather than stubbornly stick to a faileing selection.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2001

Obviously not as bad as Ranieri, who changes tactics up to 5 times a game sometimes.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2001

The biggest problem yesterday was our inability to keep the ball. Midway through the 2nd half, with Derby pressing for an equaliser, we desperately needed someone to hold onto the ball. Normally, I would expect Laurent Robert and Rob Lee to do that much better than Luax2 or Clarence Acuna - so I can understand BR's dilemma.

What finally happened was Luax2 came on and proceeded to give the ball away 2 or 3 times in his three minute spell! IMO, Shola would have been a much better bet in the prevailing circumstances.

Rob Lee had a bit of a 'mare' - although he never stopped trying and certainly didn't hide in my view. If he was carrying an injury - and I noticed he didn't come out to warm up with the rest pre-game which leads me to think he may have started with the injury - he should probably have been replaced by Acuna with 15-20 minutes to go.

However, I'm sure BR would argue that we actually won the game, something that might not have happened if he had made the substitutions others are now saying he should have made.

Bobby's use of subs can often be criticised but I'm not convinced he got it wrong yesterday.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2001

Yeah, you're right Clarky, we did in the end win.

I just hate it when we play that type of nail biting stuff.

Terry Venables made a point that we could have gone for a second and ended up drawing or losing. There is some validility in this point, as we weren't attacking as much as we could have, that's for sure. Maybe that is why Lua Lua came on late rather than earlier.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2001

I think late changes have cost us games this season - against Troyes, for example. Something that I find annoying is that players who are injured stay on. Why? Is the protection of a game worth more than the fitness of a ten million pound player?

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2001

Interesting to read BR's words on the non-use of substitutes on Saturday:

"When we played Tottenham here several weeks ago I wanted to cancel out their extra man in midfield so we played with wing-backs and three in midfield. Against Derby we didn't do that, we stayed 4-4-2 but Robert Lee and Gary Speed did very well for us. They are not the youngest of midfield pairings, but they worked hard and were very diligent and tried to shore it up.

"I would have liked to have got a second goal because at one stage I wanted to try to rest Robert ahead of the Cup tie against Ipswich, but with the game so tight I didn't think that any change would improve the team. I know that if we had changed it, and we had ended up drawing or losing, then I would have kicked myself".

"So we did what Liverpool did for so many years. They used to keep the same players who had the rhythm of the game, who knew their opponents and who saw games out. They could win the league by winning matches 1-0 17 times a season".

"So cries of 'change your tactics' and 'change your team' I put in a paper bag and throw it away. The 11 guys on the pitch knew their jobs, they stuck with it and they won us a difficult match 1-0."

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

We can't have it both ways. We'll never know what would have happened if BR had made earlier changes, just like we'll never know how we would have played against Spurs if we'd played 4:4:2. But if we criticise for the latter, we can't have a go at him for the former unless you always assume that we, the fans, always know best.

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

The thing is, apart from not letting in any goals, it went badly wrong yesterday.

For Christ's sake if they miss a penalty you can't put it down to good defensive tactics, just a good save from Given - always an element of luck with a penalty save as well.

Derby could so easily have scored one or more and then he would have to change his speech.

In the end it worked, but I can't say that we were as comfortable as Liverpool looked at SJP when they were 1-0 up.

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

For heaven's sake: since when did good goalkeeping and good finishing stop being part of the game of football? Man Utd won at least one title on the strength of good goalkeeping. Liverpool won Championship after Championship by winning games 1-0. Saturday wasn't a great spectacle but we got three points - at least the lads can't delude themselves after a performance like that so they should at least try against Charlton.

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

If we play as we did against Derby and beat Charlton 1-0, I'll be tap dancing the entire 1 mile circuit around the mall Saturday afternoon. ;-)

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

Crikey - I had to read that three times to make sure you weren't gonna lapdance the circuit round the male on Saturday!! You wouldn't, would you? I'm sure it could be arranged if we win on Saturday ;-))

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

I'll be just as chuffed as anyone if we win 1-0 against Charlton, but I can just see improvements that could be made.

I suppose it's being a bit picky, but I've got used to whinging about some of our performances in the last few years.

It's just frightning how bad we can play against the weaker teams. Good that we pick up the win though, I couldn't be more happy with the three points.

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

LOL, Screach. I'll save that for when we win the league. ;-)

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

I bet that would take some time.

A hell of a lot of laps to dance on in SJP

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

"If we play as we did against Derby and beat Charlton 1- 0......"

If we play like we did against Derby in every game until the end of the season we could finish the season with 23 points fcs! We were bloody rubbish.

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

By the way ... what is lapdancing? This is the second thread that's mentioned it. It's certainly not something we have in Seattle - perhaps we should? Is it a another British craze?

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

Clarky, if we got results like against Derby in every game for the rest of the season we could also win the league. Or at least get into the CL. ;-)

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2001

According to my database:

Avg Sub	Manager
32	Caretaker
29.4	Gullit
25.3	Dalglish
23.2	Keegan
19.6	Robson

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

And for the smart-arses:

StDev	Manager
25.5	Caretaker
17.9	Gullit
17.6	Dalglish
17.1	Robson
16.6	Keegan

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

Softie - was that the number of minutes played by the subs or their squad numbers? And who did the 2nd lot play for? I remember St John but not St Devlin.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

That's standard Screacher, deviating from the point.......

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

Come on Soft lad, explain to us thickies what the stat means. Avg Sub = avg no. of subs used in a season? Avg no of mins played by subs in a game? And what exactly does 'standard deviation' mean? Does it refer to seeing the Lads but preferring to get another pint down minutes before kickoff?

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

The Average Sub is the average number of minutes subs were given under each manager to make a difference.

StDev is very nerdy. If you don't know what it is then you are better off keeping it that way. Let's just say that the deviation is very similar for each manager so a fair comparison can be made.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

Softie,

My statistics is very fuzzy these days, but I suspect the large std. dev.'s you have calculated suggest the statistical validity of the mean data could be highly suspect.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

I understood that since they all have a broad band then they can be compared the same as if they had all had a narrow band. Mind you, I only got a C in Maths O Level...

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

Time to get all nerdy..8-)

I'm no expert either, but Standard deviation is a measure of the spread of the results. Small SD and the manager was quite consistent. Large SD and the average is less meaningful because there's a broader range of actual results.

Softie, the SDs look a bit high to me in comparison with the averages. Are you sure they're right?

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

I think it says that Keegan and Robson are lesser deviants than TDO and TSM.... and as for that caretaker!

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001

Softie, can I suggest you send your database to the exam board? I reckon they'd up your C-grade to an A!

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2001