What sort of insurance do you have on your Leica? I'd like insurance that would cover me being a fool: dropping my camera, for example. It'd be nice to be more confident about using my M6 in riskier situations. I do have the Passport coverage but it doesn't cover everything.

thanks, Fergus

-- Fergus Hammond (fhammond@adobe.com), November 21, 2001

Answers

Fergus:

My philosophy. A camera is a thing. It can be replaced. Insure ideas.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

I checked with my insurance carrier and they said all my camera equipment is covered under my standard homeowners' policy (subject to the deductible of course)even if I'm on vacation and it's burnt up or stolen. If I drop it, I hope it lands in either a bonfire or a theif's lap.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

the only thing that the passport warranty does not cover is if the camera is lost or stolen. if you drop it or throw it against a wall or anything at all whether it's your fault or just an accident, it is covered by leica.

-- tristan tom (tristan@tristantom.com), November 21, 2001.

Leica's coverage only lasts for three years though. Try

http://www.chubb.com/individuals/vac.html

I've heard good things about them. If you have a lot of camera gear and tend to travel or use it in dangerous situations DO NOT insure it under your homeowners policy. I purchased a seperate "all risk floater" from state farm for all my camera gear, and because of 2 losses in three years they dropped my homeowners policy completely. Not just the aditional floater, but the entire homeowners policy. Now I have to spend at least three years with a sub-prime insurance company paying double my previous rates before I can get one of the big-boys to insure me again (because of having been refused insurance). Mind you, I never had a claim on the house policy itself, just on the camera floater. I hate State Farm, stay away from those assholes.

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), November 21, 2001.

Enjoy the mechanical marvel that is Leica. Take lots of pictures and don't worry about what might happen to your equipment. Enjoy.

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

Yes, a camera is a thing and can be replaced. A Leica system is a very expensive thing and can easily be replaced if it's insured. I don't know who would be foolish enough to own thousands of dollars in equipment and not have it insured, but obviously they're out there.

Josh is right: DO NOT insure it under your homeowners policy. Big $$$ for deductibles. Take out a separate policy for your kit. I have all my equipment insured by State Farm (luckily no claims yet), and it's only about $50 a year for around $4,700 worth of gear. How could you say no to that?

Like Dennis said, "Take lots of pictures and don't worry about what might happen to your equipment." With a good insurance policy, you will have no worries.

-- Luke Dunlap (luked@mail.utexas.edu), November 21, 2001.

Perhaps a strategy to prevent having your homeowner's or renter's insurance dropped if your gear has to be replaced by your floater policy would be to go to a separate insurance company. If your homeowner's is State Farm, maybe you could have your gear covered by All State. Just a thought...

-- Luke Dunlap (luked@mail.utexas.edu), November 21, 2001.

Luke:

My philosophy can understand yours. But it says that If you are so worried about your equipment then you won't be thinking about your photographs. I have dropped cameras from cliffs, while I was roped in, from horses, at high speed, and, once, from a high speed boat. Just the cost of doing business. None were insured. I have one that must be in a glacier on Mt Baker. It is the photographs that are important and not the equipment IMHO. If you are interested in the results you will survive the costs. You can only concentrate on so many things at once. ;o)

Have a good holiday.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

Art's and Dennis's comments are flat unhelpful. Any tool costing thousands needs to be insured. I have a camera rider (or floater) as an adjunct to my State Farm homeowner's policy. It costs about $120 per year for $10-K worth of equipment. The cost/benefit analysis is obvious. It's folly to be uninsured.

-- john costo (mahler@lvcm.com), November 21, 2001.

I have more money than that in one system. My digital imaging system cost more. If I were going into parts of major cities I might consider your argument. But I don't.

Hey, it is a difference in philosophy. Some people are afraid of life and some aren't. Some people sold all of their stuff and moved to the mountains to live in a shack because of Y2K. I'm not that kind of a person. What comes; comes. ;o)))

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

John and Luke,

You should seriously re-think the idea of insuring your gear with an additional floater under your State Farm homeowners policy. That is exactly what I did and I got SCREWED because I had claims on that policy (lost leica +voigt lens & one year later lost cell phone). My local agent told me it was okay to make the claims, I made them. And then when it came time to renew my homowners policy 2 months later, State Farm said, "Sorry, we're denying you homeowners coverage because you had too many losses on your policy" Even though it was on a completely SEPERATE policy (the floater, NOT my homeowners policy). You are basically throwing your money away by insuring with State Farm, they will jerk you around.

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), November 21, 2001.

Didn't mean to insult anybody. Insurance on expensive equipment is a good thing. My experience with insurance though is that it merely cuts your losses, and rarely (only if you're lucky and the stars are aligned properly) does it make you whole again. Just remember: Insurance companies are in the business of collecting premiums. Their goal is to keep as much of that and to avoid paying claims. Just a fact of life. So, although I have some insurance, I know that if my gear gets ripped off I'll only have a down payment on new stuff. So I just don't worry about it as much anymore. Hope everybody out there has a nice Thanksgiving. You, too, Alfie.

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

John:

One final thought. It has been my experience, over a long lifetime, that when it comes to stuff, you own your stuff or it owns you. I refuse to let it own me. It is just a bunch of equipment that allows me to make photographs. I don't give it any more credit than that. If it goes away, I will replace it. I don't buy into the insurance thing.

As I said: this is a philosophical difference. I don't buy into the philosophy of fear under every rock. ;o)

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

Well... I can understand that. Different philosophies, I guess. In the financial arena, I'm not a risk taker. In other areas, I am.

Hey Josh... how are you? State Farm doesn't mess with me. First, I've been with them for so long that all of my policies are "guaranteed renewable", and non-cancellable except for nonpayment of premium. You may be able to guess the other reason.

-- john costo (mahler@lvcm.com), November 21, 2001.

This thread has been quite an eye-opener for me, especially as I'm about to make a claim for the M4-2 and 50mm Summicron that I lost last week. My homeowner's policy is with State Farm, and I have a $500 deductible. So I'll eventually have a nice downpayment against a new M6 TTL, but that's all.

I won't make either mistake again - leaving stuff on a plane, or not having a clause or separate policy for my equipment. Last week I was very emotional about the whole thing, but one of my colleagues put it in perspective: "Stuart, it's just a posession. One that can be replaced. Just be grateful you didn't lose a loved one." The message took a few days to sink in, but he's right. I'm pretty sanguine about the whole incident now.

From hereon in, I'm going to try to follow this mantra: Love what you do, and don't obsess about material items. Having the appropriate policy will help with the latter.

-- Stuart Dorman (stuart.dorman@us.pwcglobal.com), November 21, 2001.

Fergus:

I had originally prepared a great trreatize on camaera insurance, as I am a LossPrevention Engineer for a major insurance company, but I hit the exit button instead of SUBMIT and lost it all: oh well.

Short version, and I know it is cold comfort now, but effective Loss Prevention up front is the absolute best form of insurance; we all learn, we hope, from lessons, and the more expsnsive the lesson, the steeper the learning curve. Sorry about that.

Discuss all aspects of your specialized insurance needs UP FRONT with a knowledgeable agent or broker. Check with local shops who may rent equipment as they will now all about it. Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

Thanks to everyone who answered. Personally, unless you have more money than you know what to do with, *not* insuring a camera means you're less likely to take photos. I've been out rowing on Seattle's Lake Washington, hanging out of one side of the boat, taking photos one handed with my $5000 Leica gear (M6 & Noctilux) and not been worried. Can't image I'd do that if it wasn't insured.

Thanks, Fergus

-- Fergus Hammond (fhammond@adobe.com), November 25, 2001.