In Defense of My Own Postings (And You Don't Have to Read My Stuff If You Hate Me)

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Hi there Leica-philes,

Strangely enough, I am very displeased (and perhaps it is disheartening) that people are offended and decisive about making an enemy of one of their own fellow Leica photogs because of the personal nature and humor of some of my own posts. I guess that it's because I come to Leica photography from the artistic standpoint where all domains of life are interwoven together and that there is little separation between art, life, illusion, photography, and various (sundry) topics within the philosophical realm.

There are those who accuse me of being jobless. Okay, I would like to clear that rumor. No I am certainly not some disgruntled unemployed idiot. I do have a research analyst position at Independence Blue Cross where I work hard and still have lots of leftover time. I certainly complete all of my own work in due time and after work, I DO shoot photographs for practice and artistic intent. I think that it is rather depreciating that people make up a ton of b.s. about my own life story and refuse to reserve their own judgment about others like some wounded prejudiced soul.

There are some who think I didn't even shoot Leica photographs at all. I do shoot photographs actually, perhaps too much and I am always fascinated about capturing the decisive moment. And of course, my Leica humor is still retained in my brain, unlike the few who don't have the tolerance to enjoy life and take Leica photography too seriously.

By the way, I am not the perfect purveyor of Leica knowledge, in fact, I am still learning a lot about the optical systems, the art of working with Leica tools, etc. etc. I think that it is unreasonable to expect everyone on this forum to be at your level of expertise and to express contempt for those who don't understand every single serial number/ optical elements/ whatever fancy dodad about whatever particular Leica camera... I rather be much more artistic proficient than to be technically stuffed in the head.

I do appreciate the friends that I managed to meet here and know that their support has been invaluable in my trying to learn an art which has been lost to young people in today's point and click and shoot world. I think that a lot of times young people don't shoot Leica at all is because they see it as being elitist and too artsy. We have to show that Leica can be affordable and worth its price in portraying our own personal and decisive moments.

For those who think that I sometimes am too personal, I would like to provide a listing of quotations which relate to how I wish to live my own life in conjunction with Leica photography:

An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. - Charles Bukowski

You can never do too much drawing. - Tintoretto

The artist must train not only his eye but also his soul. - Wassily Kadinsky

If tasteful, you can never get too personal here as long as you can see the broad overview of life and understand how everything in our life's details relate back to the Leica vision which is personal and inherent and can be shared. After all, my explanations are no different than being on the LUG and reading into the personal lives of those who do the Picture a Week... and pictures still = 1000s of words...

All the same, I'm leaving tomorrow for the grand day(s) out (Wallace and Gromit allusion there) so basically I have been busy this weekend shooting the Leica IIIF (found out that the small f vs. big f makes a substantial difference). Based on the serial number, I found out that the body is from 1938-9 indeed. It's rather impressive how durable the camera is after all these years and that it is rather lightweight and a lot more so than the M6 of now. Loading the film was rather easy as long as you cut the film leader and isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I think that having a patience to shoot Leica for the long run. Hopefully I can make it to the 1 hour photo shop at Ritz so that I can see the results with the Russian 1962-3 Industar lens 45mm 1:2.8. I'm rather optimistic about the lens quality and later on I hope to pick up a Summar or Summitar later on next year to test out some vintage Leitz optics.

I picked up some wonderful Phaidon budget photo books for 8 dollars each (USD) from Borders. Wonderful selection although some of the photographers are questionable such as Nan Goldin??? and other "scandulous" photogs who look like Diane Arbus half of the time. I picked the following in the series: Boris Mikhailov, Gabriele Basilico, Lewis Baltz (my personal favorite), W. Eugene Smith (another one too), Laszlo Moholy-Nagy. I couldn't find Cartier-Bresson (but not a surprise) or Capa or many other Leica photogs. Is Mary Ellen Mark a Leica photog I wonder? I think that it's important to see other photographs and learn composition and formation of art from their own examples.

Hopefully I can relax and take a vacation for the next week or so. Perhaps someone can help me provide some tips for shooting architecture with Leica and I would be most happy all about it.

Leica-fully, Alfie

-- Albert Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001

Answers

Hallo Albert,

don´t take those posts too seriosly and enjoy being/ becoming an artist. Most people here prefer counting srews on their LEICAs, me included, and have (perhaps) problems with those working intensively with LEICA gear.

I could contribute a bit to architecture photography. But this would mean a long treat- and English is not my mothertongue. Just one hint: for some months now I have the HELIAR 15 mm with the bubble on my M6. Getting exact orthogonal shots with this gear from buildings etc. is a new experience in r/f- photography for me.

Best wishes, happy shooting and enjoy youur holidays

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), November 19, 2001.


This guy is unbelievable. No wonder HMOs are a disaster.

-- Eve Hessler (evehessler@yahoo.com), November 19, 2001.

I agree. I wonder if his employers feel bad about cutting into his web-surfing time. Better still: I wonder what the ratio of his surfing is to his working. In any case, the answer is clear: Steer clear of Independence Blue Cross if you value your life!

-- Henry Clayton (Clayton2@msn.com), November 19, 2001.

Blimey Alfie - that's some post. You have excelled yourself, but please don't take it all to heart old boy, I'm sure you're an extremely nice guy. Here's some advice: a little less typing and a bit more shutter releasing.

Oh - and it is ONLY A CAMERA.......!

Happy hols!!!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), November 19, 2001.


Alfie, don't worry about what some other people say. While you appear to have some excess free time it is your business not anyone else's. I for one like your posts and find them refreshing. It is interesting from time to time I read posts complaining how it seems that only older folk are interested in Leica cameras and where are the younger people? Well here you are. Also people don't have to read your threads if they don't want to.

-- Gerry Widen (gwiden@alliancepartners.org), November 19, 2001.


Though everyone is free to post whatever (and ignore whatever they want). That being said, Alfie, I think your new post demonstrates you don't understand why people are frustrated with your posts.

-- Richard Le (rvle@yahoo.com), November 19, 2001.

Alfie: You go on and on and on about your Leica work, but it seems to me all you shoot off is your mouth.

-- Paul Collier (PTCollier@mindspring.com), November 19, 2001.

Sorry Alfie - I must chip in again. You have at least produced the most amusing responses in a very long time. I tried reading your opening post again but the wheel on my mouse is now worn out.

Please don't stop posting.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), November 19, 2001.


I've followed this forum for a few months now, ever since I got my M6, and this is the first time I've written. I don't mean to be harsh, but Mr. Wang's contributions strike me as excessive and misinformed. In some cases, he's so utterly incorrect in giving advice/answers that I laugh aloud. For example, last week he asserted that _all_ National Geographic photographers use Kodachrome 64 and that Fuji films were "softer" in contrast. This is wrong in the extreme, as a little research would reveal. (NG shooters are increasingly using Velvia.) The difficulty is not his enthusiasm -- although several contributions a day are tedious. The real problem is his manifest lack of knowledge and his eagerness in proclaiming his ignorance. His talents are wasted at Blue Cross. He should be working for a Ministry of Propaganda.

-- Sue (suzanne.weston@freetalk.uk), November 19, 2001.

Eve Hessler, Paul Collier, Something Clayton - who are these people? I haven't seen them here before. Why is it these personal slanging matches always bring out a bunch of new names whose only contribution is to put people down? Pity one of the few women posters to this forum is in the bunch, maybe she'll have something more interesting to say later on. I hope so.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 19, 2001.


hey, folks, can't we all just get along?

-- Victor B. (bachman@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.

Alfie, don't sweat it, just be yourself and have some fun. Who really cares what eveyone else thinks?

-- Brooks (Bvonarx@home.com), November 19, 2001.

rob: your comment raises an interesting if tangential point. why are there so few women contributing to this forum? (i.e., is leica photography too male-dominated?)

-- Victor B. (bachman@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.

Alfie:

I for one enjoy your posts, as they are very refreshing in an often very jejune, pedantic more-money-than brains part of the world.

I also have a few jems to offer from renown philosophers:

1) "Joke 'em if they can't take a...." Robin Williams.

2) "Opinions are like A**holes: everybody's got one". Larry Flint 3) "To thine own self be true, and it follows as the night follows the day, thou can'st be false to any man"! "Somebody or other" from a long time ago.

4) "Throw a stone into a pack of dogs, and if one squeals, you know he's been hit" Me.

5) " Do or do not do-there is no try". Yoda/George Lucas

I enjoy your enthusiasm and candor. I too am a fully employed professional (I have letters after my name on my card and am a member of an internationally recognized Learned Society) who is lucky to have enough spare change for a few neat cameras/toys. Richard Feyeneman (a real character, by his own definition)wrote a book called " What Do You Care What They Think, Mr Feyeneman". I am not saying you are an R.F., but, sticks & stones etc. How many Nobel prizes do some of the above posters have.

Go for it! Snap it whether it is on K'chrome, Velvia or mercury on a copper plate. (And if I am wrong - it not being copper: so what.) Anybody who makes a major decision based solely on what they see in a forum is not caveating her/his emptors.

One of the main reasons I follow this forum is that I enjoy the solemnity, pomposity and self-righteousness of some of the posts. As my "High School Zen Master" used to say: "There's that silly behaviour again. I'm glad its not mine!".

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.


Alfie: Take comfort in this quote from Jonathan Swift: "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

-- Andy Holmes (holmes34@earthlink.com), November 19, 2001.


Hang in there Alfie. You're young and full of enthusiasm, lacking only in the experiences of life that only time can deliver. Just remember that all young people are influenced by a vague feeling that the world is all for them, which it isn't. So remember the other people who visit and contribute here because this forum is for them too.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), November 19, 2001.

"is leica photography too male-dominated?"

I think photography as such is pretty male dominated, probably for a variety of reasons. One is, to be a photojournalist, it's often good to be tall and able to muscle when you have to. You don't see many women photographers at big media or news events. And being a photographer often means going places where a woman might well rightly or wrongly feel more at risk. Another is, boys like to play with equipment. Third is, most women are more interested in the pictures than the equipment.

I think, anyway...

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 19, 2001.


This has been a very respectfull ,frienly as well as most interesting people talking about photography and specialy leica stuff, there is always people that come and go with nothing to share but BSHT, please Albert don´t put atention on that, this place´s still full of interesting people like yourself fellow friend.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.

Andy Holmes: -Tangential to the main forum.

Have you ever read the book "Confederacy of Dunces" By John Kennedy Toole? A great funny, iconoclastic philosophical piece of genius. It may be a bit off topic in this Leica forum, but not too far. Herewith I offer, and invite you to taste, the opening pargraph.

"A green hunting cap squeezed the top of the fleshy balloon of a head. The green earflaps, full of large ears and uncut hair and the fine bristles that grew in the ears themselves, stuck out on either side like turn signals indicating two directions at once. Full, pursed lips protruded beneath the bushy black mustache and, at their corners, sank into little folds filled with disapproval and potato chip crumbs. In the shadow under the green visor of the cap Ignatius J. Reilly's supercilious blue and yellow eyes looked down upon the other people waiting under the clock at the D. H. Holmes department store, studying the crowd of people for signs of bad taste in dress. Several of the outfits, Ignatius noticed, were new enough and expensive enough to be properly considered offenses against taste and decency. Possession of anything new or expensive only reflected a person's lack of theology and geometry; it could even cast doubts upon one's soul.

See- Not too far off at all. A quick search with Google will take you to his website.

"Eat the poor"

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.


Rob:

Maybe photojournalism is not the only field of human activity where men are obsessed with the equipment and process and women more concerned with the emotional outcome. HHMMMM

By the way: has anyone noticed all the women reporters in Afghanistan as seen on BBC World and too CNN also?

OOPPPS. The spring on my computer is just about unwound and it is exactly 12 midnight here.

Bye

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.


The only posts worth reading are those that make people think, which outrage, and which encourage people to swim against the current. But be sure you know what you're talking about before posting. There are people here with 40+ years of experience.

Peter Hughes Photography

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), November 19, 2001.


If I knew who the poet was, I'd let you know. He said:

Nobody is completely useless. You can always use him as a bad example.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 19, 2001.


"is leica photography too male-dominated?"

I think photography as such is pretty male dominated, probably for a variety of reasons. One is, to be a photojournalist, it's often good to be tall and able to muscle when you have to. You don't see many women photographers at big media or news events. And being a photographer often means going places where a woman might well rightly or wrongly feel more at risk. Another is, boys like to play with equipment. Third is, most women are more interested in the pictures than the equipment.

However, Rob, in some parts of the world where you may have been to, I would think women would have unique access to places that no man, esp. a foreigner, would have. Among them are some Leica photographers, but I can't recall their names offhand.

I think generally this forum is pretty civil, but there are times when some posters gush over some female model (I recall such comments about a couple photos by Mike Dixon), and it gets silly fast. I know- some of it begins as an attempt at self-deprecating humor, but it's kind of old stuff. Speaking of gushing, as you noted, I also observe for some reason it's more of a male thing to gush over eqpt, with strangers, on the net, as well.

-- Tse-Sung (tsesung@yahoo.com), November 19, 2001.


I've followed this forum for a few months now, ever since I got my M6, and this is the first time I've written. I don't mean to be harsh, but Mr. Wang's contributions strike me as excessive and misinformed. In some cases, he's so utterly incorrect in giving advice/answers that I laugh aloud. For example, last week he asserted that _all_ National Geographic photographers use Kodachrome 64 and that Fuji films were "softer" in contrast. This is wrong in the extreme, as a little research would reveal. (NG shooters are increasingly using Velvia.) The difficulty is not his enthusiasm -- although several contributions a day are tedious.

Then by all means people should call him on it, and set the record straight (as some have). Instead, others spend time bashing him or his style of internet discourse. What's the point? It's a matter of taste, and there's no accounting for it. For instance, people have posted some work here that really does not match my personal aesthetics, but I don't spend time being pissy about it.

Take issue with what he says point by point, but the whining and grumbling which approach ad hominem attacks- enough already!

-- Tse-Sung Wu (tsesung@yahoo.com), November 19, 2001.


Good post Alfred. I see your detractors have to have their say, that's democracy I guess, however I can't for the life of me understand why they take exception to your enthusiastic approach to life. Personally I'm sorry to see this type of behavior in this forum.

You were advised to take more photographs and do less writing, which I think is very condescending. If somebody wants to reflect on their Leica experiences or just merely gaze at their Leica, why not? It's theirs to do with as they wish.

I enjoy your posts and refreshing exuberance. The above mentioned detractors obviously do too as they wouldn't bother reading them otherwise.

All the best for your forthcoming vacation and marriage.

-- sam smith (Ruy_Lopez@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.


Hi Albert, Bukowski and Kandinsky are cool!Have you read Krisnamurti or Robert Henri? I think you would dig them!I just entered this site for the first time this week and...why the polarized hostility everyone? Human beings have to work out their problems in their own time and ways.Although conflict does...lead to difficulty and this...leads to awareness...and hopefully understanding and resolution. Peace, Emile.

-- Emile de Leon (knightpeople@msn.com), November 19, 2001.

As someone who lost friends on 9/11, and who almost lost my brother that day, I have to say that I find Alfie's joy for life to be refreshing and hopeful. Alfie, Henry Ford had a saying: never complain, never explain. Please continue to post; while I may not respond personally, I think it's important that you be yourself and be human in this world filled with pseudo-important people and their narrowly focused hobbies.

-- john costo (mahler@lvcm.com), November 19, 2001.

Alfie,

Please continue your posts. They are refreshing and I enjoy reading them, not necessarily photographic related. Most people here are from civilized countries and I failed to understand why some hold double standards on freedom - on one hand they fight for their rights whilst on other hand they do not allow others' rights of making a post of their wish here.

-- tom tong (tom.tong@ckh.com.hk), November 19, 2001.


If someone posts something in error, by all means, post a correction, but be polite about it. Don't attack the person who makes the error, but rather make the error the subject of your correction. DEFINITELY don't let errors accumulate and then make one big, gigantic attack on somebody. While you're attacking the error, go ahead and make it as bloody as possible (this helps make the forum "juicy") but don't attack the person!

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), November 20, 2001.

Oh....forgot to mention Albert that you might be better off using a monorail view camera and a wide angle for architecture eventually because of the shifts and tilts available with that format....I do remember someone that did good work with a Leica slr and a 15mm professionally so maybeits possible with the 15mm Voitlander to accomplish this.Maybe. Regards, Emile.

-- Emile de Leon (knightpeople@msn.com), November 20, 2001.

I wonder whether with a 15 mm you can just plonk the camera on a tripod, use very slow film, aim at the horizon (or use a spirit level) and crop off the foreground for architectural stuff? If you use the camera in vertical mode you'll still get plenty of height out of it. I've never done any architectural stuff myself, but it sounds feasible.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 20, 2001.

Tony and Alfie!

Okay, Tony, you're right as usual and I'm sometimes too biting. My only thought was that it is always good to offer a lot of information and details as re questions including of course real news, and a few shots of salt and pepper and tabasco and garlic often make things more tasty. It is likely not all that advantageous of me, but I still think that I (and others here too) don't always keep on cutting down on somebody when they make a mistake or two. Or three or four. But after it appears that they seem to yield "only" some things like really long poetry or joke collections or chattings, then I think -- IMHO -- and at least on this forum -- that these things should be kept down to a dull roar. Or at least real quickies. And not every day. I too, should follow my own advice. Food for thought.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 20, 2001.


Alfie,

Do not worry about all this. You, for one, have never tried being what you are not. And your contributions seem truly personal, on top of being fun. You do not fit in the mould, and that is good. Thanks for being here, and thanks for writing. Do not let yourself be intimidated.

Some people seem to prefer rehashed pseudo-knowledge to original experience and fraud to honesty, as long as the fraud is polite, self assured, non-contentious and dressed up in the compulsory red dot uniform.

Want to know how to become a "respectable" Leica newsgroup contributor ? Go through the LUG archives and go through the Puts articles, gather the historical trivia, munch on the dominant opinions (especially the complex optical engineering soundbites), swallow them and regurgitate them here in large quantities, even if you have absolutely no idea of what they entail in reality. Others will then see you as a nice guru, a specialist, a key contributor and cover you in flowers.

Originality, simplicity, candour and honesty are not always the right ingredients for enjoyable interaction in our virtual assemblies...

-- Jacques (jacquesbalthazar@hotmail.com), November 20, 2001.


We have a whole hardware store full of axes being ground here! The show _must_ go on!

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 20, 2001.

Alfie, You're gem.i've encountered quite a few of your posts on other mailing lists too and on a few occasions,you've managed to get under my skin but on reflection now,the problem lies with me not you. Hope to see some results from your artistic endeavour with your beloved Leica. Do enjoy your holiday and wedding.

regards, jasper Tiong(delurking briefly)

-- jasper tiong (jasnev@yahoo.com), November 20, 2001.


Alfie,

Don't stop posting. I read here not only for answers and specific information (beginner photographer) but also for the human aspect. When I need information, I look for it; and I know who the experienced ones are and recognize a consensus or a diversity of opinion when I see it. But I don't post here, usually, because I've got no technical authority, nor a scanner to upload photos. And haven't been sure what else to say. You have more courage, and I'm glad of it. The form should be full-blooded and enthusiastic.

Mary

-- mbloxsom (mebloxsom@yahoo.com), November 20, 2001.


Alfie,

You're doing fine! I enjoy your uninhibited posts. Don't be put off by the self-appointed "moderators" that seem to have crept into this forum lately, trying to impose the kind of narrow-minded, intolerant, self-righteous, holier-than-thou censorship that plagued photo.net for years!

Remember, you have as much right to post here as anyone else. And have a happy Thanksgiving!

Regards, Ray

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), November 21, 2001.


...that STILL plagues photo.net.... I don't go there anymore. What a bunch of blowhards.

-- john costo (mahler@lvcm.com), November 21, 2001.

I am happy to read all these friendly responses to Alfie’ threads. Just a moment before I was about to think how little people here have a good feeling of humor and humanity. But....thanks, Alfie, you didn’t allow this thought to appear.

-- Victor Randin (ved@enran.com.ua), November 22, 2001.

Hi, Alfie:

I had never thought that you would be so concerned about other people's opinion regarding you (or your posting, to be true)...

But since you are, please "Remember, you have as much right to post here as anyone else" as Ray stated and might I say you could also remember that the others have the same as much right to not agree with your opinions / manners too.

In summary, I'd say you have received an outstanding support here and couldn't complain about the Forum's reception.

Have fun, Alfie, and allow me to add myself up to the others who already told you not to quite the site. Regards !

-Iván

-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), November 22, 2001.


Alfie,

You are a breath of fresh air in this forum, the kind that we need (and happily, get) from time to time. Great to have you on board!! And many thanks for all the postings.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), November 23, 2001.


"Wonderful selection although some of the photographers are questionable such as Nan Goldin??? and other "scandulous" photogs who look like Diane Arbus half of the time"

Alfie, Nan Goldin's work looks nothing like, and feels nothing like, Diane Arbus. She and a handful of other "scandulous" photographers have documented their own lives and been brave enough to share it with the rest of the world. The Phaidon series affords you the opportunity to see many different perspectives on photography. Each one is valid, none should be categoriclally dismissed. And for what it's worth, Nan Goldin uses a Leica M.

-- Steve Wiley (wiley@accesshub.net), November 24, 2001.


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