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-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Answers

American Airlines 767, took off from JFK, crashed around 117th Street, several buildings on fire.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

At least 4 buildings on fire. May have taken off from, or headed to, JFK. AA has confirmed a 767 has gone down in far Rockaways area of Queens. 5 to 10 miles from JFK.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

just caught that on tv as I walked by it.

They are talking as if it was just a regular crash, if any plane crash can be called regular.

As Couric? said, after Sept 11, any plane crash brings to mind the horrific memory of 9-11-01.

They mentioned it was in Rockaway NY. There are buildings there, but no word yet as to whether any were hit.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Incoming plane. API indicates could be many more buildings on fire. Well populated area. Beach/129 St. and Newport? Lots of smoke.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

if it was a hijack attempt, and NBC says all airlines have reported strengthening cockpit doors on all planes, would we be told?

And how long will it take to let us know?

NBC will not confirm it was on approach at this time.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

All NY metro airports closed. Flight 587, a Caribean airbus (not a 767). Outgoing, not incoming. On its way to Santa Domingo.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

If an altitude-sensitive bomb had been put on board. . . Eyewitness on CBS reporting three or four explosions in the air.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

If intentional, doesn't sound like a crash site anyone would have had in mind. Full load of fuel if it just took off. I wonder if someone special was on board.

They are now describing the plane as a shuttle variety.

Amazing how the details keep changing. (I feel like I should delete all my prior threads and start over...)

NY tunnels, subways and bridges also closed.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

ABC Pentagon reporter: very early indications are there was no distress signal, indicating no suspicious circumstances at this point. ABC's eyewitness said she thought explosion occurred at junction of right wing and fuselage. Expert says there is a baggage compartment at that point.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

A300 airbus. Sometimes called A306. the 600 series of airbus.

NBC reporting that so far they can confirm four buildings on fire.

I don't want to change channels because NBC comes in clearest. Also, I can't find my remotes. I feel incomplete without them.

Controllers knew the airbus was having difficulties, as per FAA, and a loss of communications with the plane shortly after take off, but did not know specifics.

Flight was delayed, due to lift at 8 AM, but left at 915 AM, give or take a minute.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Giuliani says two crash sites, one where an engine hit, another where the plane hit.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Plane having "difficulties" doesn't sound consistent with a sudden explosion from something planted on the plane.

Now at least two reports of the plane flying really low.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

speculating on NBC says the plane may have taken off with the wrong profile, as one did a while back near Chicago.

whatever that means...

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Timebomb is now "server too busy". There's a surprise!

Any of you having a TWA800 deja vu? In particular, thinking of memorializing these early reports in case there is spin and denial later? At least at this moment in time TPTB might consider it PC to admit to foul play to sustain support in our ME operations.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Gordon, how about finishing up that cup of coffe and giving us a professional opinion here.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Witnesses: engine fell off, plane tilted, debris fell, plane crashed. Someone heard a loud "pop" before debris fell. Pentagon now saying fighters dispatched after crash. Giuliani says at least 12 homes and business affected. CNN reporter on ground says all he can see are homes on fire, no businesses.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

actually, the fighter jets were patrolling, but not alerted to monitor or intercept that flight. I guess you mean more jets were dispatched to the area.

I heard the airbus is Fench made?

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

BBC

Monday, 12 November, 2001, 14:38 GMT Passenger jet crashes in New York

Every available emergency vehicle is on its way to the scene

Due to unprecedented demand we have now switched to the low-graphics version of the site in order to be able to bring you all the latest developments.

An American Airlines passenger jet has crashed near John F Kennedy airport outside New York.

Flight 587 was bound for the Dominican Republic when it crashed in the Rockaway Beach area of the city's borough of Queens shortly after takeoff from JFK at about 0900 local time.

At least four buildings are on fire. Some 246 passengers and nine crew are believed to have been on board.

New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani is on his way to the crash site and has called a level one alert.

First indications are that engine failure is to blame for the crash - an eyewitness has spoken of seeing one of the plane's wings on fire. The weather was crystal clear at the time.

There is no indication at the moment that the crash is anything other than an accident.

This is the first major airline crash in the United States since four passenger flights were crashed in suicide hijackings on 11 September, destroying both towers of the World Trade Center in New York and smashing into the Pentagon in Washington.

All three airports serving New York - JFK, Newark and La Guardia - are now closed. Roads and tunnels into the city are also shut.

The Dow index dropped 200 points on hearing the news.

David Learmount of Flight International told BBC New Online it was very rare for an Airbus A300 to crash on take-off in good weather, but not completely impossible.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

UN building is in lockdown. Some French guy, due to give an address there, can't get in.

Personally, I would think the UN building would be the worst possible target. Surely OBL doesn't want to guarantee that every other country in the world would be out to get him.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Expert says pod-mounted engine is meant to break away cleanly in some emergencies so that plane can fly on remaining engine, but it's not always clean. This could have been what happened, just engine failure.

Reports are that there was no report from plane to tower re trouble. Another FAA source saying no mayday call. Reiteration: no indication of terrorism. ABC now saying pilot from plane on the ground at the time says he heard the crashed plane report a mechanical problem to the tower.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

it's possible that with an engine inoperable that the hydraulics were inoperative as well, possibly due to damage from the engine, either by fire/explosion or being ripped from the craft.

Without the hydraulics there would be no way to change the flaps and so forth. Reminiscent of the 'jackscrew' sort of thing.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Can anyone tell me how to become a part of Time Bomb?? They were on this server and I was going to apply for admission and then totally lost them.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Timebomb is here:

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/

Go there to apply for membership.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

diane, Timebomb is a good source, but for the time being, if there is a major reason to go there it tends to be maxed out, such as has been happening off and on this morning. So, keep trying. First thing in the morning seems to be the easiest time to get in.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

They aren't signing up new members at TB right now. You'll probably have to wait a week, or ask OG to write a letter of introduction (she might be busy right now!)to Dennis, who might have time to sign you up manually.

They're in the process of moving the board to multiple servers.

Another TimeBomb spin-off is here: Warning! Heavy religious threads.

http://pub16.ezboard.com/ftb2kfulltopicfrm1

Link

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

A letter of introduction from me would likely result in a permanent rejection. You will notice no link to Currents at any of the TB sites.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

New York Crash Is The Ninth Fatal Event Involving A-300 Aircraft By Jim Burns CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer November 12, 2001

(CNSNews.com) - Monday's American Airlines crash near J.F.K. International Airport in New York marks the ninth fatal event involving an Airbus A-300 aircraft. Three of the fatal events involved airliner hijackings. Another A300 was shot down by the U.S. Navy, and four others involved crashes.

The first fatal event occurred in June, 1976 when an Air France A300 was hijacked and all aboard were taken hostage before the aircraft was flown to Entebbe, Uganda. Seven passengers were killed, some were released and the remaining hostages were rescued in a dramatic raid.

The next fatal event occurred in July, 1988 when an Iranair A300 was shot down by a surface to air missile from the U.S.S. Vincennes, a U.S. Navy vessel that was on patrol in the Persian Gulf near the Straits of Hormuz. All 16 crew members and 274 passengers were killed.

In September, 1992, a Pakistani International Airlines jet carrying an A300 B-4 engine was approaching the airport at Katmandu, Nepal when it approached lower than planned and crashed into what reports said was high ground near that airport. All 12 crew members and 155 passengers were killed.

Two fatal events occurred in 1994. In April of that year, a China Airlines jet carrying an A300-600 type of engine crashed in what investigators blamed on crew errors during an approach to the Nagoya, Japan airport. All 15 crew members and 249 of the 264 passengers were killed. In December of 1994, an Air France A300 was hijacked at the Algiers Airport in Algeria. Hijackers killed 3 of the 267 passengers on board. Later, commandos at the airport retook the aircraft and killed four hijackers.

In September, 1997, a Garuda Indonesian Airways jet carrying an A300 B4 crashed into a mountainous area while approaching the Medan, Indonesia during a flight from Jakarta. Extensive smoke and haze from numerous forest fires hampered rescue efforts in the crash area. All 12 crew members and 222 passengers were killed.

In February, 1998, a China Airlines airliner crashed into a residential area near Taipei, Taiwan during its second landing attempt. The flight had been inbound from the Bali Island in Indonesia. The crash occurred during darkness with rain and fog reducing visibility. All 15 crew members and 182 passengers were killed. Seven people on the ground were also killed.

The last fatal event before Monday's crash occurred in December of 1999 when an Indian Airlines A300 jet was hijacked shortly after takeoff near Katmandu, Nepal. The hijackers killed one of the 173 passengers. The 11 crew members survived.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Git, remember I have a forum with no frills at IC when/it you are needing it......

I have been on IM with Kona..I have no planes in the air here since 9:30......and she is report MA and Boston has NOTHING in the air as of right now!

EXplosion...I am filled with sadness and dread. Kona worries about bio chems in the plane...and will go into the suburb and into the Ocean 2 blocks away.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

As to the geese theory that is circulating (and I'm assuming those are "stealth" geese...), I'm guessing the plane was in the general area of the Jamaica Bay refuge? And if it was still low altitude, that does increase that possibility. However, not much to do with whether they are migrating, geese can go for short flights without much provocation. And many flocks hang around the Northeast for the winter anyway.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I see an article indicating the neighborhood was a block or two from Jamaica Bay. Still wondering whether it flew over JB or was approaching JB.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I guess I will pass on the TB site, doesn't sound like someplace I want to be...........thanks for the links though. Did someone add the in [Oh no, Diane didn't want to say that!!! So I nuked it. OG] to my sign in here??? I sure don't remember signing in that way. CRS happening even faster??? {Actually, at this point, for me it's "I'm beginning to remember Sweet Fanny Adams." Yup, FA--you know what that stands for.]

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Don't think anyone would do that, Diane. I'll take it out for you, though.

Glad you like it here. We like you too.

:)

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/research/sis98/erwin3s.htm

"Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge, a unit of the Gateway National Recreation Area in metropolitan New York, is an area of great potential for waterbirds: it supports large numbers of nesting gulls and wading birds, feeding shorebirds in migration, and wintering waterfowl and other waterbirds. The area is adjacent to JFK International Airport and thus has a history of bird-aircraft interactions. For this reason, an ongoing tension exists between the NY-NJ Port Authority and the National Park Service in supporting wildlife, specifically the Laughing Gull..."

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

SAR, everything seems to point to mechanical failure as the cause of this crash. Now that the initial shock is over, I'm not going to worry about it until and unless I hear to the contrary.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

According to an aviation expert on Fox, these engines are tested by tossing birds into them (dead, I hope), and this engine is a good one, apparently. GE, I think he said. He says there are three things to look at, in order: maintenance, mechanical, hijacking.

Ari Fleischer says no government agency said there was an explosion on board, as reported by news agencies. Says no unusual communications with the cockpit have come to light so far.

Apparently, the Red Cross is keeping a high profile here, with all sorts of aid available at the site and to the families. (Thanks, O'Reilly!)

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

As I understand it, one bird isn't a problem, but a flock could be. And usually it isn't the bird in front which can see where it is going, it's the trusting ones with the poor visibility seats in the back of the flock.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

LOL! I am reminded of myself!

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

There was a (not very good) cartoon in the paper a few weeks back, the geese were carefully analyzing the new flight restrictions. They were cleared for flight, so long as they flew in a "V" formation, for Victory.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I am sure you are right Git...... but as I said, since 9- 11...everything will be questioned to the max!

anyway, I am going back out in the yard......and there are still no planes in the air over my way. it is about i:30 no

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Logan is supposed to be functioning normally except for no flights to New York.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

of course there has to be a florida connection, right?

The plane left Miami International yesterday and flew to New York.

Local news just had to report that, so naturally I had to tell y'all.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

That does seem a likely connection. Like perhaps it was overweight from a cargo full of illicit chads?

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

i'm sure that they will be reporting soon that the plane had mail on it.

I know nothing about any chads. Really! LOL

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Do you think that anyone bothered to check for a radiation count? Or took air samples for biological threat?

I agree that so far it looks like mechanical failure, but what if small pox spores or radiation was released?

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

When I was flying regular to Haiti I flew on those planes. If I understand correctly, the plane probably was in the "circle" of planes that services the islands. It probably did an afternoon hop yesterday ending in New York and had just touched down in Miami on the way to New York.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

small pox spores are resistant to fire?

radiation, well, that is possible, but so far no one is thinking this is any more than a mechanical failure.

I agree though, that they should be checking for everything. Including viruses.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I recall there was concern immediately after WTC that there may have been a payload. Given the anthrax activity subsequent to that, I would expect that the area was searched. At least for radiation. I wouldn't think a biological would survive a fire like that. I don't think that is how you would deliver it.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

SURVIVORS!

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

We're thinking along the same lines, Brooks.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Yes, check those remaining alive quite carefully.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Where are you hearing about suvivors?

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Since I didn't provide a source, that would indicate Timebomb, which indicated 7 survivors as reported by MSNBC.

Also, saw a MSNBC article...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/656340_asp.htm

... stating that war slut Ashleigh Banfield (that means she's safely home!) saw 6 bodies loaded onto an ambulance, which I suppose doesn't necessarily mean they are still alive.

Not good that there don't seem to be any other reports.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I think either a mistake was made by a reporter or the fact that there are survivors is being covered up. I suspect the former.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Agree, unfortunately.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001