Is he going to make it to Japan?

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Answers

only if he's collected lots of air miles

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

i don't think he's even got tunnel miles

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

well if he's carefully collected all the air miles for playing in Europe with his club side ......

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Why, are they doing a reunion tour? I thought David Sylvian was doing solo stuff.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

The nearest he'll get is the Nissan factory round the corner...

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Remind me how many Newcastle players were in yesterday's squad?

ML3

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

We all know they can cut it with the big boys though ML.

Kevin 1st touch like a elephant phillips obviously can't .

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Seriously .... who was the last Sunderland player to get ten England caps, and you can't count Terry Butcher or Chrissie Waddle

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Come on ML! It's been said before but here goes......

Given - Irish international O Brien - Irish international Solano - Peruvian international Bellamy - Welsh international Speed - Welsh international Dabizas - greek international Hughes - N. Ireland international Robert - French and soon to be a full international no doubt Lee - too old but once England international Shearer - now retired but ex international Dyer - not fit anyway

This is the bulk of our first team and since only Shearer, Dyer and Lee are English then it's a bit daft to ask the question why none of our players are in the England squad.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Remind me how many Newcastle players were in yesterday's squad?

I can name one who would have been, at Phillips' expense, if he hadn't chosen to retire from international duty.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Dave Watson I guess, before that maybe Holey and Bridgett

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

MacB, you're not being fair. You ought to know that England managers are biased against Sunderland or else the *"World Class" Micky Gray would be selected.

* Quote from Sunderland fan in last week's Sunday Mirror. Note, not just "international class" but "world class".

I actually thought Phillips did OK but, apart from Owen, I don't think there is an international class English striker at the moment. If Fowler gets fit, he may fit the bill, but in terms of a first choice partnership, it has to be Heskey and Owen. Who knows, with a run in the team, maybe Carl Cort will manage it:0)

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

yeah but what about the bad boy image, won't take long for him to be getting the bad press on here too !

I think a lot of the problem for Sunderland players trying to get into the England team is that over the years England managers have shown repeated bias and refused to pick players not playing in the top flight

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Yesterday Kluivert sat deep and sprayed inch perfect 50 yard passes to the wingers and then was in space in the box to receive them. I can't think of one England striker who could ever hope to do that, apart from, say Sheringham. This is precisely why SK should not go to the WC. We'll get badly outclassed.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

yeah but we've seen what Kluivert's countrymen can achieve at the top table, or even in Dublin, they are pretty players who flatter to deceive, no one has ever accused Phillips of being pretty

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

i seem to recall them giving England a bit of a caning.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I could visualise some of you willing Phillips to mess up .

Would you have cheered if he had scored?

Or does your bitterness go to deep?

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

i would love it if SK scored the winning wc goal, but...

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

But.................????????????????

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I wanted the team to do well , Kevin inc , I agree with Kennyboy, his first touch on Saturday was terrible, and is there a worse sight in football than to see a left back?, with half the park in front of him, check onto his right and play the square ball to his central defender, this one grates on me , as does when the ball is played around keeping possession . searching for an opening or run and then finishes with a 50 yard back pass to keeper who punts upfield making it a 50-50, bah!!

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I won't say I am surprised but I do note that many of those having a go at SK are the very same ones who whinged on like hell when Her Anal Arse got a bad press and mackems taking the mickey.

Personally I panned HAA over the last couple of years that he played for Ingerland. As an Ingerland supporter and reasonably often attender at Ingerland matches, I think it was a tragedy that he lost his pace (whether through injury or whatever) at such a young age. He was one of the few world class (i.e. could get into any team anywhere) players we have had over the last few years. As a supporter of the village idiots down the road I was of course delighted that this happpened only a couple of years after he sold his soul to the devil.

Clearly SK is not in the class of HAA pre-nacking himself in that pre- season friendly at Everton (oh joyous day). Clearly he is not world class as I have defined it above. However in the current set-up, only Beckham and Owen are. Gerard might be. Some argue for Scholes but I don't see it. Some hope for Ferdinand but, skillfull player that he is, I just don't think the defending side of his game is strong enough - for a centre hallf that it a teeny weensy bit important.

There is a myth going round that we are "blessed" with some great forwards at present. I think what we mean is we have some canny forwards. Fowler could be real class but is going to have to turn it on for club and country much more consistently than he has over the last few years (notwithstanding the injuries). Heskey is just a big donkey. We English seem to love our big men. Almost all of us think SAFC massively overdo it with DP (god bless the mere mention of his name) - you would think Ingerland should be aiming to play a more skillfull game than we do. Cole is just a waste of space. Granted he produced the goods for you lot (and then curly Kev sold him - on a par with HAA's self-inflicted trip that one on the mirthometer) but since then he has mainly relied on being in a team that, until this season perhaps, has found playing premiership football a piece of piss. Sheringham is sheer class at present and deserves to go to Japan on that basis. However, he has a habit of disappearing by the end of the season and I worry about a game plan that relies on him playing as well next June as he is now. Smith I like a lot (as a footballer - little tw*t as a human). However, he is still a bit more potential instead of achievment than one would like - may have changed by next June.

All in all, except for Owen, SK is the only consistent English goalscorer in the prem over the last couple of season (including last season - look at the stats). And that is playing for a not particularly sparkling team (last two seasons - this season we are ranging from dreadful to awful - still our massive skunk-like neighbours can't seem to beat us at their place mind). You just know if he played for Manure, the car radio lifters or the Arse he would be going next June. Infuriating thing is if he was playing for a really crappy little club like Spurs, he would be given a much better write-up and would certainly improve his odds of going. Laugh at us if you wish but you suffer from exactly the same thing, just to a slighlty lesser extent because of your greater profile.

Doesn't mean he should get in the final 22 but doesn mean he should be higher up SGE's list of "people to give a full, proper chance" than he seems to be.

For a board that prides itslef on "intelligent" (apparently a mag synonym for humourless and dreary) dialogue, don't you think you could have analysed SK a little better than you have? Visit any other club's message board and they seem to be managing it.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Buff - he mis-hit two balls in the second half in the ten minutes he was on - fiar enough. However, the whole team seemed flat in that period - maybe they knew wholesale substitutions were coming. It might have been better to get them over and one with at half-time. Unfortunatley those two touches linger in the memory. In the first half his first touch was superb, including one exquisite piece of control on the left from a Beckham cross-field ball.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Christ, what a monologue from Herts. And he calls us dreary. Do you accept that SGE has watched Phillips many times and do you accept that he is sufficiently intelligent a man to select the best team? If it has anything to do with clubs, it is that the other strikers are in the Champions' League and test themselves against better defences than the Premiership (which has shite defences). Phillips has been un fortunate in that he hasn't played in Europe to show what he can do at a slightly higher level and that there players like Michael Owen who you'd be mad not to chose ahead of him. He works well with Heskey, ergo your first choice partnership has to be Owen and that "Big Donkey, Heskey" (you'd have thought someone so self- righteous about intelligence might have managed a more reasoned analysis of Heskey.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Some players just aren't suited for international football. SK is one of these.

To be fair, to say he has consistently scored in the PL may not have a full bearing on international football. He scored a hat trick against Bradford last season and I bet not as many against the top teams with half decent defences.

He did it in his first PL season, but this was still in the period when teams were getting used to Sunderland's style, and Niall Quinn in particular.

Andy Cole, in comparison, is Manure's top scorer of all time in European competitions - against the best defences - although I admit his England performances haven't been up to much on the whole.

Phillips is basically THE goal scoring outlet for Sunderland. Take him out of the team and they will be relegated, simple as that. For the other clubs, the chances are created more equally around the team.

It is a common myth that Andy Cole misses most of his chances, but last season he did in fact have the best goals to shots ratio of anyone in the League (might have been Europe, but I can't remember)

Phillips' all-round play has certainly improved, but is this what you want from a striker? Surely the best striker wil be one who will be in the right place at the right time and put away chances - Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler and Andy Cole could all be described as that. However, there is only room in the England team for one player like that - far and away Owen. Heskey is the best partner to play with him, not least because they play for the same club team. Who knows, maybe if Phillips played for Liverpool he might have a better chance, but I honestly don't believe there is a lot of bias involved. SGE picked Micky Gray as well as McCann, obviously didn't like what he saw - at this stage - and realised they weren't good enough in his opinion.

The question should be - can Phillips add anything to the England team? My answer would be no, therefore he shouldn't be in the final squad. Many Sunderland fans, and indeed Newcastle ones will disagree, but that's my opinion.

Rambled on a bit there, sorry :)

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Sk and Herts - speaking personally I have no wish to see SKP do badly in an England shirt. In fact I would concur with many a makem and say that he has not, in the past, had ample opportunity. However, I don't think he is international class consistently. Like Cole he is a good player but just doesn't do it at international level. But if he did make it, then fair enough.

BTW - Herts, I wonder why you bother with us since you find us all so dreary...........

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Hey, what's wrong with being dreary?

I find being dreary quite exciting

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Oh, forgot to add that if SK turned out for England in the World Cup I would want him to score as much as anyone.

I don't think he is really ideal to play up front, but if he got the chance and was in the position to score I would want him to. No doubts there, I'm an England fan (albeit an armchair England fan, but still a fan)

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I may be siding with Herts on this one, basically if my memory serves me correct a large majority on here did not care one jot about England at the start of qualification , a week-end away from club football, qualification in the bag , and a lot of interest has developed ,on this thread directed against Philips. Herts admits he supports his country and attends fixtures , not sure if he still goes since bliddy Wemberlee was demolished and the the games moved from the sarf to the boondocks tho?. His description of Heskey is apt, that is one I feel the majority football fans would use , what is the point of diseminating his game if the end result is `Can he play football at that level`?, sitting in the pub with your mates I am afraid `Nah he is a donkey would be the majority decision and term used.

SGE will pick 22 for the finals, he will have a team plan/formation shape and in his mind his strongest 11. The trick is to pick the other 11 , so if injuries etc disrupt his main plan the replacement coming in will slot in easy to what he is trying to achieve without major changes. Take away the 3 goalies, add 2 what used to be called utility players, defence (Carragher) - midfield/striker -(Scholes). I do not agree but he appears to prefer a biggie up front with Owen, Heskey is in the frame, is Teddy his back up?, at present and I never thought I would say it but Sutton in that role is better than them at the moment, his work rate and link up play is excellent . With Fowler backing up Owen, and Scholes can be pushed forward that leaves SK on a shakky nail. sick note will cover Becks ,murphy/gerrard,butt/scholes and so on, then surprise surprise Dyer gets the left slot to ensure we have at least one from the NE out there. Herts, Philipps is a good player , playing with Sunderland and their style is not conducive to the bigger stage, I mentioned his first touch, I only agreed with Kennyboy,not a overall criticsm , but watch the game carefully , he makes his incisive runs into the box too early in the England set up, thats what instant crosses and flick ons from Niall do to you ,not his fault , worked for a while , blame anyone,blame Peyter.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Herts,

Appreciate your thoughtful post, but regret your unecessary and unfair dig at us.

I said on the match thread that I thought SK did OK given limited service. I haven't entered into the debate on this thread purely because I'm not really that interested in your lad - imho he's one of several decent England strikers that are not quite good enough to be a regular in the national side.

The ubiquitious "Londan bias" may have been legitimate with some previous England coaches, but I don't accept that criticism with SGE. YMO is far and away the best striker we have and he seems to work best with a big guy. Unfortunately, Heskey is the only one who fits this particular bill because he too imo is short of international class. I feel this is actually the real problem - we have several decent support strikers, including KP, but lack a genuine alternative to Emily Heskey.

Sheringham is certainly top-class, but as you suggest it would be risky relying on him for the WC, and I'm not sure who could play alongside him - other than perhaps Andy Cole.

I would have no qualms or criticism if KP went to the WC as one of the reserve strikers, although personally I'd take Fowler and Sheringham ahead of him.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

The problem is basically that no one has come anywhere near what Alan Shearer was in Euro '96.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

As ever I have to agree with every word Herts says, about the footy anyway, well most of it, except when he talks bollox of course.

England looked great going forward against Germany cos Owen petrified them. They looked no better than average against both Greece and Sweden cos he wasn't there. Who ever comes in to replace him is a lesser player, and doesn't instil the fear of God in the opposition defence. Phillips, Fowler, Cole, Smith, Heskey are all very good Premiership players but don't scare international defenders. We all saw how poor Liverpool were at Newcastle when it was Fowler and Heskey.

Owen is a must start, and is as close to world class as we have (world class = one of best 2/3 attackers in the world), Beckham is fine and a very good international, in the same way as Phillips is very good Premiership, Beckham is not world class though, much the same as Phillips is as yet not international class.

England have some very good internationals and in Man U/Liverpool/Leeds have a good foundation of players who are comfortable in European level games. There is a desperate need for one more international class player to appear in the way Gazza and Owen did in the season up to the finals. If I had to pick the one missing player then it is Lee Bowyer, but he may well be elsewhere in June unless they can get another retrial organised. Or maybe its the pron king of the Quayside !

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

herts, this basically boils down to a "you hate him, cos he's sunderland" argument. if you cut beneath his skin you'd find kp is no more a sunderland man than any other cockney and would easily leave Sunderland if the club, say failed in the ambition stakes, or a better offer came along. Shearer is different and that rankles, doesn't it? wouldn't worry too much, because neither are going to Japan. The final irony is that SK will probably end up watching Shearer on telly in Japan when he's a commentator...

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

hang on, Shearer IS going to Japan! lifes a bitch.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Cracking player is KP. I'd take him to the WC without one worry. The day he gets the hell out of that mess down there I'll be smiling. We've all seen him score inside the box, outside the box, with his head, with his left, with his right. And he's very professional - he's the best Mackem player since Colin Todd and Dave Watson.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

"Dreary"? reminds me of a certain football team...

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Once a player pulls on an England shirt it doesn't matter what club h's from. For me and all my friends the club issue becomes irrelevant, contrary to those bitter & twisted mackems (and before you start I'm married to a Sunderland supporter). I gave KP as much suppot as I would give anyone and he did make some good runs. The problem was that at this level your game must improve to compete with the best and Kp appeared to be playing just as well as he has been at club level, just like Cole, and this is not enough.

In the matter of players from other clubs, it will always be the case that we want to see as many of our players playing for our own national team as we can. I can remember the time that Howey Lee and Shearer were called up and the only team with more call up's were Man Utd. Pride in your team is what everyone wants.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

If he can convince SGE that he's one of the men for the job, he'll get as much support from me as any of the rest of them, but it's still my prerogative to slag him off if he doesn't deliver, not because he's a makem but because he was crap for England.

I'd say, though, that the makems had better hope and pray Phillips doesn't star for England because then, there'd be no way they could hang onto him - he'd be off like a shot somewhere more fashionable.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001