Elmarit or Tele-Elmar

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Performance wise, what are the major differences between the current Elmarit-M 90 and the Tele-Elmar M 90? I know the Elmarit is a newer design but is it considered "better" or "not as good" as the Tele-Elmar, generally speaking? I currently own the latest Elmarit M 90 and find the lens to be extremely sharp. I really do not use this lens much since most of my photography is done using either a 35 or 50.I did own, at one time, an older Summicron M 90 but the lens was large and heavy, so I traded it for something else. Thanks experts.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), November 09, 2001

Answers

See two threads below.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), November 09, 2001.

The Leica lens testing guru Erwin Puts rates 90 Elmarits as follows in order of excellence:

- Current Elmarit-M - First version Elmarit-M - Second version Tele-Elmarit-M - First version Tele-Elmarit-M

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), November 09, 2001.


One of the active participants on this forum, Andy Piper, did a good test which can be accessed by clicking on the link below. Open that thread, and then click on the link there to go to Andy's site. He did a lot of work to see if one lens shined over the other.

I always liked my Elmarit M, but I would say that Andy must have got a hold of a great Tele-Elmarit for his side by side test. The only thing preventing me from jumping to the T/E is the inconsistency of the various testimonials... it is great or it is bad. The Elmarit M on the other hand seems to have universal praise for its optical qualities. I just wish it were smaller.

90mm comparison test

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), November 09, 2001.


Whether or not you care for his analysis, Erwin Puts puts both versions of the Elmarit ahead of either version of the Tele-Elmarit. Erwin uses color reversal film which (IMHO) is the only way you can really judge the performance of a lens.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), November 09, 2001.

John: here's an addendum to the test Al mentioned

I am a fan of the 90 Tele-ElmarIT-M.

But it does have two big knocks, both referred to in the responses to the test.

1) The TE can get very severe veiling flare pointed near/into a bright light source - an overall washout of the image - and in general has lower macro-contrast than the newer Elmarit (but still pretty good micro-contrast/edge definition). It is critical to have available the 12575 metal lens hood, even if you don't use it for every shot.

2) Some TEs come down with a disease of the rear elements (variously diagnosed as etching from moisture reacting with the heavy metals in the glass, or lubricant condensation on the glass, or element separation - apparently not even Leica can say for sure what it is or why it happens) which is - at least - very difficult to get repaired because the rear elements are a sealed unit and hard to comeby as spare parts - some people report having been able to get repairs through Leica - many have had no luck. So it's important to inspect any TE carefully by shining a bright light through the lens to highlight any problems - they will show up as pinpoint speckles on the glass surface.

I still prefer the TE because a) I find the newer lens, in many situations, to have TOO MUCH contrast, espcially with slide film (Velvia) and b) I just could never get the newer (German) lens to focus as consistently with my older (Canadian) bodies. I can give no explanation for this last phenomenon - my working theory is that the Midland micrometers shrank slightly in the cold Canadian winters so things made there were adjusted a little differently (grin).

Here are links to pictures taken with the two lenses, that highlight their different strengths and characters.

This shot was taken while I had the new Elmarit-M. Note the clean outlines even against sunlit water. The TELE-Elmarit would have flared tremendously shooting into the light like this and probably made the shot unprintable/unscannable.

On the other hand, this shot, taken with the Tele- Elmarit-M, is quite sharp and has a long delicate tonal range - the forte of the TE. Note the water droplets on the skin and rendering of the hair. I shaded the lens from the sun with my hand.

The debate will continue forever, just as with the '60s 50 'cron vs. the current 50 'cron, or the ASPH/pre-ASPH 35 'crons, or the 21 Super- Angulon vs. the pre-ASPH 21 Elmarit. I think the 90 TE, like the M4-2 body, unfairly gets dismissed out of hand based on hearsay and a few actual bad samples.

On the whole I think the ranking given above is justified, but in the Leica world even third place is pretty darn good. And, FWIW, Erwin also ranked ALL the 90 f/2.8 lenses ahead of the f/2's, prior to the APO- ASPH Summicron.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), November 09, 2001.



"The TELE-Elmarit would have flared tremendously shooting into the light like this and probably made the shot unprintable/unscannable."

Just thought I'd test my own theory, so I went back to the lake where I shot the Elmarit-M picture sample linked above and reshot similar lighting using the TE instead. Here's what I got: .

. The top left picture was shot without a lens hood into the sun as a 'worst case' scenario. All the other shots were with the lens hood on. The change of seasons - sun angle - meant I couldn't get an exact match, but I hope these give everyone a good idea of when and where the TE dies a horrible death.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), November 10, 2001.

Hallo Andy,

thatīs a very quick job and well done.

Pictures really tell more than 1000 words. Despite the flarequestion: I like the photos. You got a very good eye.

Best wishes and good shooting

.

-- leicam (k.g.wolf@web.de), November 10, 2001.


Thank you for the examples Andy. They illustrate exactly the problems I had with my 1983 TE. Flare is a serious problem in a rangefinder where you cannot tell exactly what is happening on the film. I used the 12575 hood but on too many occasions bright tones would cause veiling flare even with the sun at my back! The 90/2.8 Elmarit-M which replaced the TE has gave me no such grief and was sharper wide open and close. The Elmarit-M has been replaced with a 90/2AA and it is just as good as the Elmarit-M but with one more stop.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), November 11, 2001.


Excellent Andy!

Now I completely understand why the Elmarit-M is worth the extra size and weight.

-- EDan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), November 11, 2001.


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