Recently I have been wanting to print larger B&W images. Currently 11"X 14" is as large as I'll go with a 35mm neg. I would like to start printing 16"X 20" or even 20"X 24". Now, I am not one of these people that views grain as the boogey man, but I like smooth grain and edge sharpness.

So the question is what are the film and developer combinationd used by those of you who print big. And please, lets not ask the obvious question about using a larger format. I want to make Big Prints from 35mm negs shot on my Leica. Thanks in advance

-- Steve Belden (otterpond@tds.net), November 09, 2001

Answers

I like Ilford Delta 100 developed in Kodak Xtol at 1:1. It produces remarkably fine grained 11x14 prints. I havent actually done a 16x20, but cropped 11x14 still look good, so I think the 16x20 results would be very good too. Maybe even 20x24, not sure. I print with a 40mm EL-Nikkor lens. It does a fine job and allows me to get the big enlargement factors you suggest.

If finer grain was desired, you could shoot Techpan 25, but it tends to be a tripod film, although the results are truly impressive with that film. I have been musing about shooting Techpan with a 50/1.4 (at 1.4) during daylight. That could produce some really cool results with very sallow depth of field, and no grain at all. Could be really creamy, especially with a Leica lens.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), November 09, 2001.

Are you dissatisfied with your attempts at bigger enlargements so far? Larger prints have greater natural viewing distances. Apparent grain and sharpness won't change if you view them at the appropriate greater distance for larger prints. A 35mm enlargement will still look like a 35mm enlargement regardless of degree of enlargement, if viewed at the right distance. You'll see what you paid for in your Leica lenses (and your enlarger lens) when you go to big enlargements. The obvious remedy, if you don't like what you see, is to go to finer grained/ slower film, but this may require a significant change in how you photograph. I wouldn't change anything--just do it! Have fun!

-- Tim Nelson (timothy.nelson@yale.edu), November 09, 2001.

I've made many 16x20s from 35mm Ilford XP-2 Super rated at 250 or 320. Most people find them difficult to distinguish from medium format.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), November 09, 2001.

Steve

I routinely make 16x20 prints with "No Grain" from Kodak T400 CN and Ilford XP2.

With a Leica or other top notch lens and an equal enlarger lens, tripod & cable release, you will get BIG prints in which you can see grain only if you look at it CLOSE-UP. Seen from 2: feet-No Grain!

I can never get the quality from a 35 enlargement that comes from a contact print from a 4x5 or 8x10 neg, but even Leica would never claim to be able to do that.

I have seen 20 x 30 prints by Sebastian Salgado taken with Leica equipment on Tri X and T Max 3200 that are amazing. Give it a try.

cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), November 09, 2001.

In a recent newsletter Puts addressed the grain and sharpness issue. His tests seemd to indicate that the best films for grain and sharpness for large enlargements was Pan F and TMax 100 (rated at 80). When I get home I'll try to dig out the exact newsletter and pass it on. I did some poster size prints of Tri X/D76 in the mid 70s that were put up on the wall of an office. At the viewing distance the grain and sharpness were very acceptable and I think the prints are still hanging in the office. Try some things and see what you like.

good luck,

-- Don (wgpinc@yahoo.com), November 09, 2001.

If you really want large, sharp, grain-free enlargements, there is no substitute for Technical Pan. Nothing else comes close (Gigabit not available in US). Since the only way to get really sharp negatives is to shoot on a tripod, the low EI shouldn't be a problem.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), November 09, 2001.

Use any film and developer you like, as long as you are not concerned about grain. I have a roughly 4x6 foot print made from a T-Max 3200 neg that is as sharp as you could want, and the grain, while not as large as you would suspect, only enhances the picture, IMO.

But if you want smallest grain possible, try TMAX 100, developed in anything other than Rodinal or some other big grain-producing developer (try D-76 1:1). Tech Pan will give smaller grain, but it's much slower and a hassle to develop properly; other ISO 25 films are probably no finer-grained than TMX, but may give lower sharpness due to the longer shutter speeds that will be required.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), November 09, 2001.

Thanks Everyone. Great responses!

Dan, I mostly use T-Max 100 and soup in in Xtol 1:1. I have used Delta 100 also, its great film but it's not readily available in my town. My enlarging lens is a 50mm 2.8 El-Nikkor. I think I'll take your advice and give Tec Pan another try. I heard you can get good results running it in a Jobo using Xtol 1:15.

Tim, I am not dissatisfied with a 16X20 print if it stands alone or is in the company of other 16X20 prints from 35mm negs. It is when it is in the company of other prints from medium format that leaves me dissatisfied. I don't have this problem with 11X14 prints.

Dave, I have never tried the C-41 B&W films. I'll give some XP2 Super a try this weekend.

Richard, I know what you mean about Salgado's prints. In 1993 I drove down to Philedelphia to see Salgado's Workers exhibit. The prints were absolutly stunning.

Don, T-max is my film of choise, however I like PanF+ also. Seems to be better at holding details in the highlights when shooting high key. Thanks for the tip, perhaps it's time to revisit this film. Maybe I need to work on my technique, tripod, cable release, etc; in order to get all these two films have to offer. If you find the article you refered to please pass it along to me.

Thanks again

-- Steve Belden (otterpond@tds.net), November 09, 2001.

Think about having a digital print made. No enlarger shake, no loss of sharpness caused by putting the image through one more lens. I have a whole bunch of links to good labs if you're interested. And yes, they will do B & W. I have some 16x20 prints made from Scala 35mm chromes, and they are very sharp. I've really stopped doing 4x5; no one really notices the difference anyway.

-- john costo (mahler@lvcm.com), November 09, 2001.

Hi Steve:

You might consider trying Pyro PMK and either Kodak Tri-X or Ilford FP4. I have been using this developer with Tri-X and can get relatively smooth 16 x 20 prints. Several of my friends use Pyro on T-Max 400 with good success. Pyro not only develops the silver but also stains the film. The film stain is quite even and seems to smooth out the graininess in the film. Pyro negs tend to appear quite thin but hold detail in the shadows and the highlights do not block up. Works especially well in backlight situations Hope this is helpful.

-- Gerald Pisarzowski (adsergp@arvotek.net), November 09, 2001.

Great photographs transcend grain and sharpness issues.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), November 09, 2001.

Thanks Jeff. I'll use that line next time I display a poorly crafted photograph. :-)

-- Steve Belden (otterpond@tds.net), November 10, 2001.

Grain and sharpness are not the same as craft.

The amount of enlargement you are willing to put up with for any given photo depends on the content of the photo, where you are going to be presenting it, and your own personal aesthetic sense.

Some people love 16x20s printed from 3200 speed 35mm film.

Some people think an 8x10 enlarged from 4x5 is too much of a compromise.

It all depends on what you are after.

Also, Jeff is right.

-- Pete Su (psu_13@yahoo.com), November 10, 2001.

Hi Pete,

I don't dissagree with Jeff's statement, I was just looking for a way to apply it to my original question wich was how to print "smooth grain, sharp edged 16x20 prints from 35mm negatives". Thanks to many responders on this forum I now have some great suggestions to try out. It is a technical issue not a philosophic one. I previsulize an image before making it when working on a theme. The theme I am working on requires big prints with smooth grain, not necceserely fine grain, and good edge sharpness. If I can achieve this then I have crafted my image well. If I can't achieve it then I have failed to craft the image well. In wich case I will deem it a great photograph that trancends grain and sharpness. Just Kidding.

Regards Steve

-- Steve Belden (otterpond@tds.net), November 10, 2001.