I used to be firmly in the "Keep Dyer at all costs" camp for a number of reasons - advertising our ambitions, building a decent team etc. However, everything just seems to have gone sour. I'm not just talking about this latest escapade but about his general behaviour and the fact that we've managed without him for a while, suggesting that we could cash in on him and buy Emerton/Carrick or whoever and maybe have change to put towards a new CH. Haven't really thought this through properly but wghat do you lot all think?

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Answers

Robert on his day his more skillfull more dangerous and more likely to score, Dyer just appears like a prize tosser, but who'll pay 20mil now? Carrick strikes me as being less of a jerk and has the same potential levels. swap them?

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

I'm beginning to think the same Dougal. Immense talent but in the papers again for all the wrong reasons, + who thinks he'll still want to be a Toon player when his contract is up anyhow given earlier noises coming from his camp. I'm losing patience with him, pour encourager les autres.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

i had heard a while ago Cort wanted to go back to London and posted it here (remember Gavin?) and this just leads me to believe he doesn't give a toss. Why should he? He's probably more interested in Armani.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

I not sure dougal - but there is simply no need to make a firm decision at his juncture. Right now his market value is minimal, and the longer he is out the bigger the risk to his future.

The situation can, and will, be sensibly assessed when/if he is fit and playing again - until then it's all academic.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Not sure if I entirely agree. It's so long since we've seen Dyer play that we've forgotten what he's capable of. I don't think it's a coincidence that the best players (midfielders especially) are often annoying ar@eholes. The energy, cockiness and desire to do something different, as well as the ring leader/trouble maker side can be the spark that makes things happen on the pitch. YBR has shown he can deal with these characteristics already with Gazza. Whole thing seems like a storm in a teacup.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

I've been clicking through various web sites to see how the Spain incident is being reported and many sites are using it to mention the Dyer to Leeds story again, implying that this is the final straw for BR. I very much doubt it and anyway his disciplinary record will not be looked upon fondly by many managers.

I think this is a storm in a tea cup too but given that sod all else is happening watch the tabloids make a massive deal out of it tomorrow.

Typical NUFC.........just when things seemed to be going well.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Paul Scholes apparently refused to play at Highbury on Monday - I'd have thought that woudl have been more newsworthy than some lads on the lash.

Seriously, though, this wasn't really about the recent incident but rather on an assessment of Dyer's real worth. As Clarky says, we are not in a position to make this assessment at the moment. The other thing is, he'll take about 3 months to get fit (possibly until after the transfer deadline) and we'll never shift him next summer for any real money since he'll only have a year on his contract. Another Sol Campbell situation in the making maybe?

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Shoulda taken the 20mil when Leeds were allegedly offering. :-(

Interesting about Scholes, I hadn't heard that. Be nice if we could get him, but I doubt we'd even manage the downpayment on whatever MoanU would want. You sure we couldn't tart Marcy up and offer him in exchange? ;-))

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Well, Ciara, given Man Utd's choice of defenders and SAF's faith in YBR's opinion, you never know ;) Regarding Scholes, I think the bigger issue will be which winning Italian or Spanish side wants him..

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

How come Dyer has such a bad reputation here- being portrayed as a cocky, bad egg. Fair enough, being in the spotlight, he should try not to get up to stuff that many blokes that age do- but do any of us know him enough to make these comments? I lived in Ipswich a couple of years ago and have met 2 quite close friends of his- they describe him as a quietish, shy blokes who gets on well with the 'lads'.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

What comments, Spud? There are comments on the thread about them being sent home from Spain.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

The item covering this on Look North brought up the sciving off the JH dinner thing again. If this turns out to be the fire giving off all this smoke, it looks more like a dummy-spitting reaction than a punishment for something more serious.

Bit naive of the club though, to say as far as they're concerned, it's a closed book. Some hope.

As one door shuts, another one slams in our faces - story of our footballing lives, that.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

For my money we ought to hang on to Dyer. He has talent and - if he stays fit - is going to be a big asset to someone. I'd rather it was us. I'm not too concerned what happens off the park, although I accept there must be a 'line' not to be overstepped. It will be interesting to see how he does when he gets back.

Having turned doen £20m for him, the club are hardly going to sell him for half that (or less) now...

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

We need to hang onto Dyer, selling him would be stupid.

Whatever you say, he has the ability to turn matches on their head when he's on form.

Carrick is a completely different type of player and shouldn't really be compared with Dyer. Not really pacy, and tackles quite well, in fact Dyer is probably the opposite to what Carrick is. Dyer is harder workiing as well.

I honestly don't think that this latest "escapade" is THAT bad. Although it certainly shouldn't have happened and they deserve a fine, at least it shows they are having a laugh. If Dyer has good friends here at Newcastle then moving to Leeds to meet up with his mate Rio isn't going to be such a big thing anymore.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

He can also go into hiding (eg. Sunderland and Ipswich at home last season). However, as has been said already, no one will buy him until we've got him match fit and by then the question is whether other clubs would prefer to wait to get him on a free. So really it's all a bit academic as we've alm ost certainly missed our chance to sell him for big money. BTW, if having a punch up in a bar (allegedly) while your less fortunate team mates are listening to SJH's jokes because it's their job to, isn't an escapade, then what is?

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

PS. Paul, I honestly don't think the Rio factor is that important: he has spoken at length in his Pink column about his great mates at the Toon being Solano, Griffin, Cort, Lua Lua and Shola Ameobi and is always grassing up the wearer of the famous Yellow Shirt in training so he actually comes across as being a nice lad. The Ronnie can't praise his bubbliness enough. He just gets into scrapes and I can't imagine that changing anywhere (SAF hasn't calmed Dwight Yorke down much).

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Dyer is just a bit thick.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

mind, rhaynors a bit tasty http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2001382313,00.html

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

I think this is perfect man management by YBR. He has warned Dyer as to his future conduct and has followed through on this warning.

If it was a punch up then it has to be dealt with but even if it was just missing a dinner for a few drinks then he should be reminded of the earlier warnings he has had from YBR and told that even a minor transgression is unacceptable.

Other players who have not behaved as Dyer has in the past may have been cautioned about their future behaviour and that would be that, but Dyer has been warned about this and must be aware of the situation yet behaves in this manner again. Fine him and send him home I say and if he does it again Keep fining him until he changes his ways. If he can't then get rid to some other mugs, who will pay his wages for a year while he continues to drink his promising career away.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

...woof, woof!

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

I think that Dyer does come into the "daft young lad" category and few clubs will continue to put up with this forever--except Taggart 0f course whose players can do no wrong off or on the pitch(Cantona-need I say more?)But the idea of a Newcastle team with the pace of Bellamy,Robert AND Dyer makes me positively drool at the mouth! Having Shearer BEHIND them and picking up the scraps/rebounds etc would prolong Big Al's scoring records for a good while! I say keep Dyer-I think it's a case of not having seen him play for so long,most of us have forgotten just how good he is. Fifties Fan

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

its the stan bowles syndrome again, bags of talent bags of money and no brain. i like to bet in 15 years time we are reading a story about ex england ace dyer bankrupt and back living with his mam.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Bloody hell, has Dyer really went from "most sellable asset" to "worth **ck all" in less than 2 days?

Dyer probably lifted us up about 4 or 5 places in the league with his vital goals. Remember Liverpool at home, Bradford at home, as well as Leeds at home where he ran riot. That's 9 points that could so easily have been 0 without him and there are undoubtedly more.

We obviously have more creative outlets than last season, but surely not turning up for a official dinner doesn't half your value? Some "quotes" from Bolton players, no player in particular, obviously a complete load of bollocks wherever it came from.

Fine them, yes, give them a talking to. What has Dyer done wrong before? He made a "video" (allegedly), nowt wrong with that, it's not illegal and surely not banned in his contract? Seen drinking on the Quayside before pre-season. Again, not really a lot wrong, surely he can have a night out in the holidays?

Honestly, he hasn't done a lot wrong. Golden boy Steven Gerrard was apparently on the verge of alcoholism and is always caught out with friends in Liverpool and still is caught by the cameras, but he's a big name player for England and pretty much essential to the team, so the papers hardly even comment on it. But not Dyer, he gets all the girls (literally) and the editors are jealous and try to put him down every chance they get.

Alan Oliver as well on Sky Sport (via telephone). He sounded dead smug about it, like "I'm on the telly, aren't a good, look at me, I'm famous, hello mam!"

Dyer is undoubtedly a talented player, the fact that SGE was still considering him for the world cup squad even when he is injured just shows how highly he is rated. Sounds like Andy Griffin has done more wrong recently, but there aren't a lot on his back.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

It's not so much whether what he's done is right or wrong, it's the fact that he keeps generating bad publicity for himself and his club. For whatever reason, the press have made him a favorite target meaning he needs to keep his nose cleaner than other players his age, in public at least. Something YBR has likely told him many times, but Dyer can't seem to get it through his thick heed. NUFC have a knack of generating bad publicity without players adding to the problem. Griffin is heading down the same road, though so far isn't generating as much publicity beyond Tyneside. Unfortunately living life under a microscope is one of the downsides to becoming rich and famous.

Should Dyer come back and dazzle us all with his pace and skills, all this will die down.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

I reckon it would die down if he wasn't injured. Whilst he in injured he will get bored, and not being a true pro like Shearer, he will need to occupy himself in some way. Instead of working at the gym doing light training or taking a GCSE in common sense, he misses a dinner, which I agree that he probably didn't realise the importance of it.

It's a bad thing to do and the club was right to fine him, but it has been blown completely out of proportion.

Imagine you were a footballer and went to Spain with, say Manchester United and heard that you had to go to a formal dinner to listen to speeches from a retired chairman who you probably know very little about. They were wrong to not go, but it's hardly Grand Theft Auto.

Even the national press seem to have forgotten about it already. Have a look on teletext or Ceefax - nothing. It's a minor incident and the only REAL quotes are from an agent and a club spokesperson. The Bolton players' quotes are from "Bolton Players", no names, no specific details, so how can we take anything from them? I doubt it was a punch up at all, I for once believe the agent in that they missed the dinner, without knowing how important it was. Wrong to miss it yes, but not a really serious matter. It ends there for me.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

An example is the last thing that should have been made of them. I know how I'd feel if I'd inadvertently dropped a bollok and been hung out to dry, if that's in fact the way it is. Slightly p1ssed off, to say the least. No wonder Dyer appears to be questioning his future, I wouldn't want to stay either. And what if it rubs off on Bellamy ? It's not that important how the other two react, we haven't seen all that much of what they can do yet.

Seems to me, the club, as usual, have got the priority all wrong. I don't think the actions of four 20-odd year old ar5seholesdo say much about the club or us, only about themselves. It's how the club react that gets people sniggering who have nowt better to do.

What the feck do we want from the club, a 'band of brothers' who can all be held up as perfect examples of how we should all behave in an ideal world ? Or a set of players who can win everything in sight despite their warts ? I know which I'd prefer.

The longer it drags on, the more obvious it becomes to me that no action should have been taken that would have focussed attention on the incident. As soon as they were noticed leaving the hotel with their luggage, the mobiles would have been going like the clappers from Spain. What else did the club expect ?

So grit your teeth for the next couple of weeks folks, cos our bum's out the window yet again.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2001

Bellamy has been quoted as saying he and the other three were having a meal and a few drinks in a restaurant and returned later. He said that he knew nothing of the dinner for SJH when they later returned.

He reacted "angrily" to reports that he was involved in a punch up, he says it was nothing more than a meal and couple of drinks with the other three.

I for one believe these quotes.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2001

In that case Paul someone is not being honest, either Bellamy for saying he didn't know about it or the club for saying that's the reason they got sent home. It would appear unreasonable of the club to send home players for not attending an event they knew nothing about. If in fact the four knew nothing about the dinner then why did all the other players attend, and if they didn't then shouldn't they have been sent home too?? Which player rooms with Bellamy? I feel as though Dyer may be behind his poor judgement.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2001

Lets compare Keiron Dyer with the England captain.

I feel I don't really have to explain any more.

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2001

I see what you mean.

They're both thick.

Beckham identified Man Utd as the only team he really wanted to play for. He put everything into making it in their youth team and earned an early call-up to the first team where he has worked his balls off to establish himself as a fixture. Dyer was playing for his home town club but doesn't really have any long-term plans and moved to the first club to meet the asking price. There he doesn't do a lot because he doesn't have to.

Beckham misguidedly thought thinks that the sun rises and sets with Posh Spice and set out to woo and marry her. They have a child who he dotes on and live in a garish gin-palace. Dyer got his childhood sweetheart pregnant but then went off shagging teenagers and filming the performances, messed about with Viagra and has a bachelor flat on the Quayside.

The media turned on Beckham for getting sent off in an England game which didn't help beat Argentina. He was villified and attacked continuously for a year and a day. He faced up to it by keeping his head down and putting in his best club performances of his career to date. Dyer was caught out by the press for getting into a fight in a night club and was bollocked by his manager. He then went on holiday with his mates and got into the headlines shagging teenagers. He got himself ino a situation with slappas fighting over him in the street. His performances at club level have remained the same for 2 seasons.

Beckham's form for his club and now for England makes millions in merchandising for his club. Dyer's version of publicity makes us no friends but I dare say his personal deal with Adidas makes him enough not to be bothered.

Like two peas in a pod.

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2001

exactly ..... hindsight is such a wonderful thing

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

Scratching my head here but the benefit of hindsight still can't dig up any memories of Beckham ever giving anything but his all for his club. The closest he came to taking the piss was not turning up for training and found himself dropped from the team. Still sat in the stand and watched the game though, didn't he? Or do you know a couple of 17 years olds with a different version of events?

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

On a similar note I watched Paul Gascoigne on the Frank Skinner Show last night and wondered what might have been of the bloke if he had signed for Alex Ferguson's Man Utd instead of moving to Spurs.

Dyer moving away from this club will probably only benefit the club that signs him.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

Dunno, DB, SAF hasn't calmed Dwight Yorke down much and they have had their share of porno movies. Having said that, I think Venables was inclined to indulge Gazza which I think SAF would not have done.

Thinking about Dyer, it was him, Lampard and Ferdinand who were involved in the video thing and of the three, only Ferdinand has calmed down which suggests that the regime at Leeds may not be as lax as it has been in the past.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

Think you might be right DB - I reckon Fergie would have scared the living daylights out of Gazza and kept him in line. Without a doubt the most talented footballer I've ever laid eyes on, bar none. He really could have been up there with Pele, Maradona and Cruyff if he wasn't such a f***wit.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

Better than Des Hamilton?

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

Yep, even better than Des Hamilton.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

There was one other person who could have done it for Gazza, and that was Jack Charlton, if he hadn't also suffered an ego problem he may well have stamped some autority on the young Gazza. Progressing from McFaul to a jack the lad Venables was just what he didn't need.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

ferguson would have made gazza, but he couldn't stop him breaking his leg, could he?

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

yes of course he could. I've never seen a player as high as Gazza was going into that game. His manager should have been calming him down rather than fuelling it. By the time it happened again he was lost anyway

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Have to agree with Softie. They both might be thick as two short planks, but Beckham seems to be much more single minded and know what the priorities are. Maybe it's just a maturity thing.

Not sure that anybody but Dyer himself can sort his problems. If Bobby can't make any headway trying to guide him, I don't think any other manager would have much more success. Dyer might see the light before it's too late, but it's looking less and less likely. The indications are he'll go the Gazza route rather than the Beckham route.

I hope a big factor in his attitude is that he isn't playing, so when he does come back, it'll straighten out his head enough to make him realise there's no future in being so much in the public eye for the wrong reasons. But don't hold your breath.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

being fair to Dyer, he's probably no more a tosser than 99% of other players. Its just he fits a meejah space nicely. He need s help, much like that Becks probably got.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

There was no hope for Beckham.

The year after the World Cup he was still kicking opponents off the ball, diving on the edge of the box, holding his face when there was no Austrian defender within touching distance. He was mocked for his clothes, his hair cut, his "champagne" sex life, dropped by his manager for missing training, linked with Italian moves. He was beyond hope.

He has turned into the golden boy since he had maturity thrust upon him by Eriksson and parenthood. He has grown up, Dyer needs to too, but maybe lots of the problems are that there has to be internationals every once in a while and the press still need stories. Now Shearer is old the 'Shearer to leave Tyneside" stories have stopped appearing, need a replacement, and Dyer is that replcement at the moment.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Alan Shearer is 31, he's not old, and is not quite finished. Kieron Dyer is an immature brat who isn't yet fit to lace the great man's boots - and I doubt he ever will be.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I woulkd like him not to be in the news but I'm quite taken amazed at the venom shown to him on here over the last few days, all on a totally noncommital press release from the club and made up stories from the Sundays. God knows what state you'd all been in if he actually beat someone up on the Quayside and left them for dead.

The other thing that amazes me is that the England managers have all thought that at 22 he is a good footballer, I mean he's clearly hopeless, or he's done bugger all since March anyway

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

MacB, I know that I questioned at the start of this thread whether things had just gone sour for Dyer and whether it would be best for both parties to cut their losses. However, having had time to think it through, I feel desperately sorry for Dyer who, in the press, is being portrayed as a drunken degenerate with no self-control and no respect for club or country. You'd think he'd stabbed a granny. Equally, since he has to get fit before we can sell him, we may as well give him as much support as possible. He has said that watching from the stands has given him a real perspective on the team and that he feels that he can bring something to the side which suggests that he hasn't been using his off-time as stupidly as all that.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

i feel that Dyer is his his own worst enemy. obviously.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

He'll probably push in at the front of the queue for that as well :-)

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Furthermore, Kieron Dyer was yet again watching the reserves last night, as he very often does, unlike almost all the rest of the senior squad. Redolent of a bad attitude? I don't think so.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Did I not mention in my report that he was handcuffed to the seat? Ah well. But he did have a "big fella" looking after him (hopefully with a "shoot first ask questions later" approach to the press). Didn't he Pilgrim ;-))

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

KD looked as miserable as sin, and buggered off at HT. Gavilan and Steve Caldwell were also there in civvies, as well as BR's full 'entourage' - John Carver, Charlie Woods, Gordon Milne, Pedro, plus Simon Smith and his amazing Dancing Bear! ;o{)

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Better being miserable as sin and making the effort than not going at all a la future manager of Newcastle United, Clarky :)

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

I went to the Leeds match. I don't know what you're on about.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

You shouldn't be so paranoid. What made you think I was talking about you? ;0)

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

No, you're quite right Dougal - I didn't see Marcelino there last night. ;o{)

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

I think he was in the St John's Ambulance hut on the far side of the pitch Clarky.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

LOL. LOL.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Snippet about Dyer that we seem to have missed: "Troubled Newcastle star Kieron Dyer is ready to prove his commitment to the club by opening talks on a new contract...Dyer has told friends he wants to extend and inprove upon his current £25,000 a week deal at St James'. A source close to the player admitted: "Kieron is ready to commit his future to Newcastle. He has been talking about signing a new deal because he feels there are exciting times ahead. He's been impressed with the start Newcastle have made and thinks they can go places. He wants to be part of it". Dyer himself said, "Newcastle are showing they have ambition. They were one of the biggest spenders in the summer and the fact that I have not been rushed back from injury shows how things have changed. That wouldn't have happened last season but the club are now trying to match the best".

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

See, all it took was that Lap Dancing club to open in Toon. Why didn't we think of that before? All we need now is Carricks to open up a Prawn Sarnie shop and we could get Roy Keane as a replacement for Rob Lee.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001