Dear Brethren... Although it has been some time since my last post here, I find it necessary to wade into the fray again. Here's my question... What are our Christian Liberties (as alluded to by the apostle Paul in Romans 14 and I Corinthians)? I'd like to see your wisdom in this arena. Could we get a list started?

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2001

Answers

A list? I think just about anything could end up on the list. The liberties has to do with other people interpretions of scripture. One person eats only vegetables, the other excercises Christian liberty and eats meat. (as Emeril says "It's a pork fat thing!")

Jesus criticises the Pharisees for putting their interpretation on the next person, not for putting up barriers for themselves to keep from breaking the law. If the law says "rest on the Sabbath" what does that mean? Well obviosly that would not be a day to go plow the field, but what about picking some grapes for the table? Some would say yes, some no. Jesus is critical of the one who says "no" only if that one criticises the one who says "yes". (That whole judging thing...)

Whenever I start getting self-righteous and critical of someone else for doing soemthing that I wouldn't do I am brought back to humility by this thought: If the Law given by God to Moses on Sinai was incapable of bringing about righteousness, how arrogant to think my rules (law) can!

I am so glad that I am saved by grace!

my $.02

Richard

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2001

Is this question regarding the Holy What thread? Liberties/silence and their correlations?

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Where the Bible speaks, we speak. Where the Bible is silent, we are silent. Judging from this forum on hand clapping and authority and other such issues, it is not true at all.

In the past I have had people ask me if playing cards is sinful. I told the person that anything misused can be sinful. Such as playing cards, dancing, eating, even trying to be a theologian.

My point is this, if we could all step back and take a look, are we not displeasing God from our endless discussions of moot point.

It is my belief that we sin in three ways: 1 - breaking God's law (which is self explanatory); 2 - breaking man's law (which again is self explanatory); 3 - breaking our own moral law (as in God nor man makes a judgement but we make one still.) The application of this is that I cannot forbid the consumption of alcohol to others. I can speak of its dangers, but God's word only forbids drunkeness. But for me, I believe that alcohol consumption for a Christian is wrong. Therefore, I have never had a drop of alchohol (outside of that used in medicine) in my life. And if I were to consume any alcoholic beverage, to me it would be sin.

It is in that application, I see many of the issues that we argue.

I think there is much pride and hard heartedness being displayed as we dig in and try to support our "biblical positions". When in reality, in the arena of hand clapping, and musical instruments, the Lord is silent. HE DOES NOT SAY THOU SHALT nor THOU SHALT NOT! Anybody can prove this wrong by giving me ONE scripture with a thus says the LORD.

Therefore if the Lord is silent, we CANNOT speak for him. It is, to me, Christian liberty. If YOU believe using an instrument is sin, then you must not use one. I am not under that judgement, as the Bible does not say.

Further, an aid is an addition, as GOD NEVER authorized aids that we use, if they are not specifically mentioned.

So lets get back to what the WORD says. What does it say? IF it is silent and you prefer instruments, play on brothers and sisters; and if you believe it is sin, then DON't do it and protect yourself. If God is against something, he has no trouble telling us. That is why he gave us his word. If we need to add prohibitions that he does not specifically make, then we do add to the word. Think about it.

Because after that is settled - we pretty much agree on most every other issue. That is the unity we need. So can we stop griping, picking on, putting down, criticising and belittling each other? WE can agree to disagree. It really is that simple.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

Very well said Bill!! I just now took time to read "some" of the "Hand Clapping" tread. How very sad!! If each person on there, including Kevin, were honest with themselves....most of what they discussed fell on the side of "personal preference." This is so Bill...because of exactly what you stated...There is no "thus saith the Lord".....one way or the other.

I'm with Bill on this one. Back in '97 or '98....I recommited myself to the principle of...."Where the Scripture Speaks, We Speak....and Where It is Silent....We Are Silent." A number of things happened....one of which is....taking a lot of pressure off of me attempting to "preach against" things....for which the Bible gives me no clear Scripture to stand upon.

A couple areas come to mind....only because I was reminded of them again this week.

One...is the area of drinking. Is there clear Scriptural teaching against "drunkeness?" Absolutely!!! Is there clear Scriptural teaching against all drinking?? Absolutely not!! In fact....just the opposite. (Search the archives for my position on this.)

Another....is the lottery. I was just preached to this week that I need to take a strong stand against Christians playing the lottery because it is wrong. Really?? Where is the Scripture for that??

Now don't misunderstand. I think playing the lottery is stupid!!! If a case can be made against it at all....it would be in the area of poor stewardship. I could probably make a case against it, as well, for the political lies that are often told to promote legalized gambling.

While gambling to the hurt of you or your family is wrong and sinful....so is anything else we do in "excess." Overusing credit cards....is damaging as well.

But I'm not going to stand up in the pulpit and tell someone that buys a ticket now and then.....that they are biblically wrong!!

And here's a good reason why. When we make stands upon things for which the Bible does not give clear, declarative statements against.....what does that do to the credibility of the Bible, let alone ours......when it comes to making stands for things the Bible IS clear about???

My point is....when I make a stand on something and will not budge...I want people to think...."Boy...he's serious about this....and he's only serious about things....when there is a clear "thus saith the Lord."

Nate...I understand your attempt here. However, it may be somewhat futile. The reason?? Conscience. The Bible does speak to the fact..."If you consider something sinful...then TO YOU it is sin"....while not necessarily being sinful to someone else.

In the end....the great part is.....God is the only one we have to answer to.

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001