hi, i live in the country, in NH. I own 2 acres on the southwestern side of a mountain. the only flat area available on my land is where my house sits. I raise chickens (buff orpingtons) and rabbits (mixed breed). I am interested in getting other farm animals that will fit into the surroundings. I have tried goats but found they weren't for me (to noisey). The area of my property where i am keeping my animals butts up to my neighbors property and their house is close enough that any loud animals may disturb them, so i need animals that are on the quiet side, and small in size. Any suggestions? thanks, george

-- george in NH (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), November 05, 2001

Answers

Give goats another chance! :D Most breeds are not loud, especially if they are fenced and not tethered. La Mancha goats are known for being quiet, my Alpines are also very quiet except when they are distressed, hungry, or in heat. 95% of the time they are very quiet.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 05, 2001.

Bees are pretty quiet!

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), November 05, 2001.

hi Rebekah. I have thought about giving goats another chance but am worried about the neighbors. I think i spoiled my goats. everytime they made a noise i went out to them. I did see some beatiful miniature goats last week. they were pure white with floppy ears. I must admit i was tempted. Hi Elizabeth. I thought about bees, and was getting very serious about getting a hive until my brother informed me that since he is allergic to bee stings that he won't visit me if i do get bees. thanks, george

-- george in NH (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), November 05, 2001.

George, bees won't bother anyone unless they are very close to the hives, and even then they aren't usually aggressive. I have worked right around my husband's hives and not been bothered. He usually gets stung a few times when he opens the hives up to work with them, but if he's just watching them he never does. So you probably could get a couple of hives, and disguise them with some vines or a little fence, and your brother would never even know they were there.

What were you keeping the goats for? Do you need lots of milk? Or would one of the small breeds, such as Kinders, meet your needs? If I only had two acres, I think that's what I would get. I've heard that Nubians are one of the noisier breeds, but I haven't found mine to be any noisier than any other goats I've had.

Other animals you could get would be geese, though they can be noisy at times -- and are death on gardens so need good fencing; ducks -- some are noisy and others aren't very, Muscovies are supposed to be really good eating and good for fly control (I plan to get some next year); small pigs -- but personally I don't care for the smell of pigs, and your neighbors might not, either. You could probably raise a couple of lambs each year without any trouble, but that wouldn't be much use unless you eat lamb. Guineas are noisy, so you probably don't want them. You might consider pigeons.

I found an on-line book a while back about micro-livestock. I lost all my bookmarks, but I'm sure you could find it fairly quickly with a search. It was interesting to see some of the different possibilities.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), November 05, 2001.

I would also say to give goats another chance! Nubians or Nubian crosses are most definitely the noisiest. I have American Alpines which are very quiet and have had Saanens in the past...no noise problem there either. LaManchas are also very quiet!! Also, a pig or two should present no problem either with noise or smell. Given half a chance and enough room, they will be very clean and are easy to take care of!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), November 05, 2001.

Mini-cattle or Dexters????? Lime or DE helps keep the pig smell down. Tana

-- Tana Cothran (tana@getgoin.net), November 05, 2001.

Pigs would be a great choice and here is how to raise them without the smell --Build thier housing and pen above ground. We have done this in the past and found there to be no smell at all. You build the system on deck with the pen at one end and the pig hut at the other. You just hose the whole thing down once a day. The pig also enjoys a good spraying too. All the urine and poo falls through the decking and you just rake it up and put it in the compost pile. In fact I know of one guy who used this system and put his compost pile under the decking. Also for ordor control you can sprinkle some lime under the decking. They don't get to root around, but then you don't have the damage done by rooting and the best part is you don't have to rotate the pig set up every year because there is no parasite build up. After slaughter you spray the whole thing down with disenfectant...come next spring your ready to go again. Just be sure you provide plenty of shade or your pig hut has enough cover since pigs can't sweat and won't have the usual wallow.

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), November 05, 2001.

I vote for Quail. Try some Jumbo Bobwhites, they are very easy to raise, quiet, easy to dress out and taste great. They requrie very little space, no exspencive equipment. You could buy 3 trios build a few cages, buy a used incubator and build a cheap brooder box and spend probably less than a $100.00

-- Mark in N.C. Fla. (deadgoatman@webtv.net), November 05, 2001.

Hi Mark. Your suggestion caught my attention as i have always liked quail but had never thought about raising them. I have the incubator, brooder and cages. I have never heard of Jumbo Bobwhite quail. How much bigger are they then regular bobwhite quail? Where do you get them from? Thank, George

-- george in Nh (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), November 05, 2001.

Give the Nubian goats a break! Ours are very quiet and it depends on the lines and what the breeder has culled for. We even got a compliment from a pen neighbor at a show that ours were the quietess and he enjoyed being next to us. Granted, there are some very loud ones also, but some of those Alpines can leap tall buildings in a single bound. I would check the various breeds, visit herds, etc to see what you like if you do decide on a goat. Also, they are very social so 2 is always a must (be it 2 wethers, 2 does or a wether and a doe). They would also work great on a hillside.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), November 05, 2001.

Have you considered raising pigeons for squab, with quail (Japanese) underneath for eggs and themselves? The quail would get part of their feed from what the pigeons would otherwise waste. You may be able to run Indian Runner or Khaki Campbell ducks as well. Also, while I don't know enough to know for sure that it would work, my impression is that if I lived in your country and had some rough land I would plant hazelnuts in rows or blocks (and other nuts - sweet acorns and chestnuts and walnuts and pecans and almonds and hickories and beech and stone pines and whatever would work in your climate), harvest what I could for myself, and use an air-rifle to harvest some of the rest via the intermediary of the squirrels. Whatever, sheep (or lambs) would keep the ground-cover mowed, so you could have two hunters moving up silently through the nut-grove. So would geese, but goose-noise (gobble-gobble ... gobble-gobble - GOBBLE-GOBBLE--SHRIEK- LIKE-A-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVE--HIIIISSSSSS) is sometimes less acceptable than the occasional baaah.

Personally, I'm going to look really carefully at cavies as well - but these would be the South American meal-sized animals - not the civilised guinea-pigs.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 05, 2001.

Yes, it is true that some nubians are quiet. The only time ours makes noise is when he (a whether) is ready to eat - once in the morning and once at night. He is so gentle and sweet, too, so I, like Leslie, say give them a break! And Leslie is surely right about the Alpine - our whether looks at our fence and jumps like a champion horse right over it without any problem. Good luck!

-- carla s. miller (carlasmiller@hotmail.com), November 05, 2001.

I live right in town, on a corner lot. One neighbor's yard is 10 feet from my goat yard, another's house is about 30 feet away, including the alley. Across the street, 50 or 60 feet away, is a 4-plex. I have an Oberhasli doe and two Nigerians. All are relatively quiet, but the Ober is amazing. She will give a soft hello that you actually have to listen for. Other than that, you never hear her except when she's in heat, when she gives her loudest call. Even then, you can't hear her as far as the neighbors' house. Goats are the best!

-- Laura Rae Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), November 05, 2001.

I think there are variations in the breeds, there are quiet Nubians, and I have had a La Mancha (with a roman nose) that sounded just like a Nubian and was quite vocal, and there is one Alpine in my herd who is very expressive. But as a rule we have some breeds that are quieter than others, just like butterfat will vary within a breed. That said, I haven't seen an obnoxious Oberhasli yet.
George, you say that you have chickens, this is interesting to me, because we have 28 goats but no chickens because they were loud and woke us up too early! Maybe the Buffs are quieter?

Re: jumping and Alpines, once in a great while I will get a fence jumper, and off she goes to the auction! But as I said, I have 28 Alpines, and they are all staying in their pen where they belong, the majority have a four foot tall fence, some is five foot tall. The pasture is just two strands of electric twine, sometimes a doe will be butted into it and break the twine, or a kid may sneak under it. But usually they stay put!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 06, 2001.

Hello George, The first question that pops into my mind is what is your purpose of raising livestock on your land? I raise animals for consumption. I good place to start would be chickens. Since you do not want the noise associated with them, I suggest avoiding a rooster. However, if you do not have a rooster you will not be able to fertilize eggs to hatch more chickens to keep you flock constant. I would recommend rabbits but, you must not keep more than one in each cage as they will kill each other. You would just put a buck in the doe's cage and let them mate and then put the buck back in his cage. They make a wonderful source of meat and they are relatively easy to raise. Other animals make a lot of noise and since this is your primary concern I would just stick with the above mentioned. Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), November 06, 2001.

What do you want, meat, milk, eggs, fiber, or pets? You can avoid some concerns by putting a privacy fence between the animals & your neighbors. (Many times out of site is out of mind.) Also what ever you get, offer some to the neighbors as sort of a peace offering (eggs from your chickens, compost for their gardens, even a roast or a few steaks if you raise something for meat.) I'm not saying give them half of what you grow, but you will have a time when you will have more eggs then you need, or something similar. Granted, if it's milk you want then a neighbor won't normally want any of it however, if you make chese with it they might be glad to have some. The point is you won't have to give much & they may not even want anything from you (then again how many people will pass on a few free steaks (specially with the price the stores put on them), & some eggs, or maybe a thanksgiving dinner, etc...).

Being only 2 acres, I can understand why you would want small animals. Sheep are a good choice. The bad reputation for an off (mutton) flavor in the meat comes from breeds that have heavy oil in their fleeces. Butchered young most won't have a mutton taste (should be comparible to beef) depending on what breed you get. Only older animals tend to have a strong flavor (which some people prefer). Those people that have had this meat & it had a strong flavor has either had an older animal, or had meat from a breed with lots of oil in the fleece. Thats where the stories of how sheep (lamb/mutton) taste got started (also with hatered between sheep herders & cattle ranchers (also known as range wars) like is shown in some old westerns.) If you choose sheep, make up your mind if you want the fleece or not. Unless you have some hand spinners that want the wool, it's not worth having only a few sheep to shear for their wool. If you prefer the taste of a wool breed (most breeds) you might look around at neighboring farms for someone that either shears their own or has someone come out to shear for them. Ask if they would do your sheep in exchange for the wool. Other wise you would be better off getting a hair sheep breed (no shearing, & some of the best tasting meat).

Mini cattle are good as they aren't too big & many times they are too busy eating to do any bawling for very long. Their are meat, milk, & duel purpose breeds, most of which are only waste high.

Their are other types of birds you can keep (other then your chickens), most of which are no more noiser then your chickens. Quail, partridge (sp), pidgeons, & pheasents are good choices for meat, show, eggs, & hobby/pet. Ducks are good for meat & eggs (though some are noisy a privacy fence cuts down on this some. Muscovey ducks on the other hand are poor layers but are nearly silent. Geese & small turkeys (like royal palms) are good meat birds, but I don't recomend them for your situation because they tend to be noisy (unless all neighbors involved are in agreement before hand). Caution: keep turkeys & chickens apart to avoid blackhead disease.

I like the raised pen idea for a couple pigs mentioned earlier. It means more manure for the compost pile (of which any compost pile won't smell if it has enough dry matter (straw, shaveings, sawdust, leaves, etc...)). And if the neighbors have any gardens, they will love your finished compost. As for the point of the pigs not haveing a wallow, a small childs pool filled with some water (shallow, like a few inches) in a shady area will work. Do NOT substitute for regular water source.

Do give goats another try. Look over other breeds (visit breeders farms) before you buy. Choose only quiet animals.

And the last choice would be an exotic animal (sometimes permits are required). Most exotics are some kind of deer or antelope. Of these there are some small kinds (muntjac deer stand two feet tall). Most need to have high fenceing but not all. Reindeer do well in cold areas (there are some as far south as zone 5 in Indiana) & don't need high fenceing. In fact regular fenceing used for horses & cattle are very normal for reindeer & they are a domesticated species (not wild like caribu) used in harness.

I'm sorry this is such a long post, but once I got started I couldn't stop. Feel free to e-mail me with questions (I also have some web sites on file).

Good luck

animalfarms

-- animalfarms (jawjlewis@netzero.net), November 06, 2001.

I raised sheep for several years (mainly hair sheep) and I wouldn't put them in the quiet category myself. They talked to me constantly, and drove me nuts sometimes. No, they weren't ill fed or cared for, they just like to blather.

We've raised every kind of goat except LaMancha, and none of em were really noisy, except when in heat, or separating babies and moms, with the exception of some of the Nubians, which were as noisy as the sheep (sorry)

My personal opinion is on that small a piece of land, ruminants would be an unnatural choice, except for maybe little goats, cuz they need to graze, and preferably rotationally.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), November 06, 2001.

thanks everyone!

you all have some really neat ideas. hard to believe but i'm thinking about maybe checking out goats. if i were to get another goat i would want it to be for milk. maybe a toggenburg?

Thanks again.

-- george (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), November 06, 2001.

Icelandic sheep, they are quiet and so amazingly useful, supplying gourmet meat, incredible wool for hand spinning & felting, and now at least one farm has gone into dairy production with this breed. I could go on.

-- Calvin (calvin@dwave.net), November 06, 2001.

George, I live in on 3 acres at the end of a subdivision and I have 2 milking goats, a hair sheep (who grew up with goats and thinks she is one), 2 beehives, 6 laying hens, and 2 children (probably the noisiest livestock I have). I had to get a special permit to build my barn and get my sheep/goats in my residentially zoned area. The permit is called a Conditional Use permit. The landowner is presented with a list of conditions, and if they can show how they will adequately fulfill the conditions, they are awarded the use permit. A public hearing is required and all abutters must be notified. (Aren't all you people with true acreage and no zoning amazed?!) My property abutts the common area owned by all subdivision lot owners, so I had to notify everyone in the subdivision that I intended to build a barn and own 2 goats, a sheep and their offspring for up to 6 months of age. Well, at the public hearing I had several neighbors there complaining that livestock didn't belong in a subdivision, yada,yada,yada. I fulfilled the conditions adequately. I was awarded the use permit. A little while ago I ran into the neighborhood couple who were the loudest voices at the hearing. After a bit of neighborly chat, the topic turned to my livestock. They said how pleasantly surprised they were. There is no smell or mess and the animals are so quiet they don't even notice they're there. Then they asked what I do with them and I said I milk them and drink the milk, and make cheese, yogurt, buttermilk, etc. They got all excited, so I guess my next batch of cheese goes to the house at the end of the street!!! I did manage to share my enthusiasm and speak kindly and generously, but when they left, oh how I laughed!!!

When I built my barn, I made sure that it is well screened from the neighbors and the road by woods. I put the paddock behind the barn. I live next and across from the two most expensive houses in the subdivision and the one across the street just sold for more than any other house has sold for in my town so I'm in an area where I have to keep up both appearances and keep disruptive noises to a minimum. I truly try to be a good neighbor, but at the same time I'm not going to let my neighbors dictate what I am going to do on my property.

Good luck with your own decisions. Oh, by the way, my goats are a kindergoat doe and a saanen doe (of which, the saanen is the noisier) and my ewe is a Barbados hair sheep. Of my chickens, I would definitely recommend that you not get cochins, since I have had quite a few breeds and they are consistently the noisiest.

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), November 06, 2001.

I don't remember anyone mentioning rabbits. Good meat animal and VERY quiet.

Our nubians are very quiet unless we're a little late feeding them.

One reason we selected buff orpingtons is for their reputation for being quiet and laid back.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), November 06, 2001.

Hi! WE recently bought a LAMANCHA. She is so quiet in fact the 4 weeks I've had her she's maaaaaed only 3 or 4 times! Any of the Swiss breeds( Alpine, Togg., Saneen) generally aren't as calm or quiet as the American Lamanchas! Nubians(floopy eared) are the generally the worst.

-- Chandler (providencefarms2001@yahoo.com), November 07, 2001.