Self-timer?

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Does anyone know why the self-timer was eliminated from the M6? Was it because of cost cutting, not used by many people, or was it due to the fact that the light meter cell is located where the self-timer is on other M models, therefore, lack of space.? I have read various "reasons" for its demise.Any and all responses will be appreciated. Thank you experts.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), November 01, 2001

Answers

Hi John, The space occupied by the timer mechanism was given over to the electronics of the light metering function, especially the battery compartmen

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), November 01, 2001.

Wrong! It was removed from the M4-2 and all subsequent models (including M6)as an unfourtunate cost cutting measure. The space thus left was later (luckily) to prove useful for the M6 battery compartment.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), November 01, 2001.

Yes, it was gone from M4-2 onwards to save money. Annoying and cheap I think. As you can guess, I like selftimers and to have one built in is a real plus.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.

I think Giles' sharp reply tends to be self-contradictory. The fact is that the batteries now live in the area formerly occupied by the self timer. I would want proof that it was also a cost cutting move as was the case in a previous mod

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), November 01, 2001.

I have seen M4-2 and M4-P where the owners have had self timers put back in. There is, as mentioned before, no room in the M6 camera Leica one.

The Leica self timer is a APDOO/14003 (or ASKOO when it includes its case). It is very small and easy to use. They can have missing teeth in the main timing gear so make sure you get one that sounds smooth. The self timer was for the LTM cameras so you need the release adapter OZTNO/14088 to mount it on a M camera. These both show up on eBay all the time with varying prices. The OZTNO/14088 tends to be least expensive when it is described as a soft release with no part code.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), November 01, 2001.



??????

I am not sure what happened but I meant to say that I use a Leica one for the few times I want one.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), November 01, 2001.


Just to reply - it IS very well documented that the self timer was removed as a cost cutting measure. This being the case it would have been extremly unlikely for Leica to reinstate the timer. It so happened as a consequence that the space could be utilised for the battery compartment. This was I believe not anticipated when the (meterless) M4-2 was introduced.

I for one would rather have the self timer than the meter!

Please excuse my sharp reply Mr Doolittle - it was not so intended.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), November 01, 2001.


John - I read your post with interest. I have spoken to Leica service (UK) on the possibility of adding a M4 style self timer to my M4-P, this would give me almost the 'perfect' Leica. I was told this was not possible and had never been done. This surprised me as it seems that mechanically little had changed from the M4 so it would simply be a case of obtaining and fitting the 'missing' parts.

Can you elaborate please?

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), November 01, 2001.


The legend is also sometimes recited in this way:

Leica removed the self-timer from certain models they considered "professional", reasoning that it's mostly amateurs that want a self-timer, for the "here's me and the wife in the Grand Tetons" shot. Pro's, by this reasoning, don't need one.

Now, what evidence is there for this? Well, the "P" in M4P means professional. But then again, it isn't clear that the M4-2 was meant for the pro's. So let us turn now to an earlier "pro" camera, the Leica MP. Did it have a self-timer? Well, yes and no. Well Eastland, on page 17, shows MP #123 with a self-timer. Then again, Rogliatti (p. 60) shos MP #115 without one.

So what does all this mean? It could be that Leica issued #123 without a timer, and it was added later. Or else it came that way. At any rate, it's an interesting alternative theory, since the MP was issued before the age of bean-counters.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), November 01, 2001.


Hi, I have an M3, and it has a self timer, but I am not sure exactly how it works... I would advance the film, thereby cocking the shutter as normal; and then rotate the self timer lever?

Just checking, since I just received the camera as a gift, so I am just learning it... Thanks Phillip

-- Phillip Silitschanu (speedin_saab@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.



I have not had the self timer added to one of my cameras so I cannot give you specific details of who to see. Try DAG or Sherry Krauter, I am sure they could do the work. What exactly has to be changed and the cost i do not know.

John Collier

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), November 01, 2001.


Self timer, you people use those things? I kinda like the lack of such a contrivance.

-- Dave Doyle (soilsouth@home.com), November 01, 2001.

Self timer, I use that thing. I hate the lack of such a contrivance. I "need" it when I want a picture of me on an old bridge from the last century out in the woods here where there are no other hikers than me (with or without their bike). And whether there is anybody out there or not, I'm stll a loner. That's why I already asked about this thing here a half a year ago.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 01, 2001.

What a bunch of crap. That bridge of mine above isn't from the last century, but from the second-last century!

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 01, 2001.

I use my frequently instead of a cable release - much more convenient. Getting myself in the shot I don't really care about.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), November 02, 2001.


In my opinion, the main reason why Leica got rid of the self timer function in the M6 is that they could be returning back to the philosophy of the M6 as a street shooter and artistic tools rather than some cute point and shoot camera which a lot of people who own it make use it for :) minus a paperweight.

Of course, I suspect that in the M6a that an electronic self timer will be added to the aperture priority settings. I can't complain too much about that direction the M series will be taking us to.

sincerely, Alfie

-- Albert Wang (albert.wang@ibx.com), November 02, 2001.


Isn't a Leica when used as "street" camera, just an expensive point and shoot anyway? I don't see what being "serious/professional" has to do with having a camera with less features. Also Leicas never originally sold themselves as dedicated street photography cameras, they are just "cameras" and can be used for any subject, they just do some things better than others. The point about the original Leicas was that they used small 35mm film but were of sufficient high quality for photographers to carry them with them always and still make photos of good enough quality. Most "professional" 35mm cameras including all the R cameras have selftimers, as they are very useful for releasing the shutter without having to use a cable release when exposing at speeds lower than 1/30. Nothing necessarily "amateurish" about that. I still maintain it is a pity (but I loose no sleep over it) that M cameras no longer have a selftimer, but as it happens it was a godsend that they did as it meant there was space to put the battery compartment for the M6.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), November 02, 2001.

If u want a timer why not just get a junky little one that screws on. I got one from b&H and it works great. Just took some time to adjust it to my camera.

This is what I have http://www02.bhphotovideo.com/default.sph/FrameWork.class? FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___63958___GBST___REG___CatID=0 ___SID=EA27E709420

-- ilya shinkar (shinky@mindspring.com), November 02, 2001.


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