I've shot about 10 or so rolls through my one month old M6TTL and 90% of my exposures are over by what looks like about one stop. While I haven't done any "scientific" testing, I have tried shooting in a variety of circumstances: all manners of times of day, indoors, outdoors, with and without a tripod, different subjects, pushing one or two rolls, etc., all in an effort to test my metering ability and hone in on the problem. I'm finding the exposures remarkably consistent in their over-exposure -- I don't have some that are four stops over and others one stop. It may be my technique (I'm far from a pro), however, before purchasing my new M6, I rented one for a few days, shot about 10 rolls with it, and had no similar exposure problems (other than a few simple mis-exposures that I clearly screwed up). In order to be consistent, I've been using all Delta 400 BW neg. film. That's the background, here's the question:

1. From the brief description, is it likely the camera or my technique? Camera's new from a local authorized dealer, USA, etc. and of course I can take it in to be checked if need be.

2. Could it be the film? Does Delta 400 (set at ASA400 on the M6)have any tendency to over-expose?

3. If your recommendation is to have the camera checked, I will have to do so after a weekend's shooting at a friend's distant wedding (not the official photog. of course). Given this, what would you recommend to correct for the problem in the meantime -- simply metering normal and then closing down a stop? Or is there a better way (e.g., having the lab pull it a stop?)

Thanks in advance for all your advice -- I'm a daily lurker here and your posts have taught me a lot about my new camera. ER

-- Eric Reid (eric_reid@lkshore.com), October 31, 2001

Answers

The best test is with a gray card and slide film. Use consistent lighting and make a series of tests using a range of shutter speeds. But it does sound like your meter may be off.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@alaska.net), October 31, 2001.

Meter on a gray card, then AFTER you meter and select an exposure, place a white egg or two in the scene, and something that's black. Keep the gray card in the scene, and make your exposure. With slide film, this should tell the story. The M6 meter has always been famous for being "spot-on." I calibrate my Gossen by my M6.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), October 31, 2001.

Slightly Off topic- My meter goes off very quickly: I press the shutter release, the LEDs light up for a second. Then they're off and I have to wait before I can press the shutter release to get them again.

Low battery?

-- Tse-Sung (tsesung@yahoo.com), October 31, 2001.

I'll bet that does mean a low battery. On my M6 bodies, a low battery is usually indicated by the meter deltas gradually dimming.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), October 31, 2001.

Through the ages photographers have gone crazy trying to match two meters. They rarely give exactly the same data. To have your M6 meter out by a whole stop is rather odd though. If the problem persists and is constant through varying situations the easy answer is simply to alter your film setting - ie for Delta 400 set the rear dial to ISO 800. And maybe to bracket your shots. Presumably you know the problems with reflectence meters where to point the measuring field?

The favoured solution is simply to use the best meter of all - a handheld incident meter. It is an odd thing indeed to find a pro who would not rely on his Sekonic or at least check his in-camera reading with one of these. I find a meterless M with a Sekonic hand held meter the best way to work. Sorry, but as in my Vulcanite reply this is YET another reason to prefer the older bodies.

The way a Leica is used it shouldn't be necessary to meter every shot. With the M meter you must be looking through the viewfinder whilst twirling the speed dial or aperture ring. I believe it is easier to inconspicously take a reading from an incident meter and transfer this to the camera. Adjust this reading as you work - the M is not used like other cameras!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), October 31, 2001.

Eric,

What makes you so sure that your negs are over*exposed* - versus over*developed* - versus your prints are *underexposed*? You do not mention whether you are developing or printing the negs by yourself or have them developed/printed... Do you use a dedicated densitometer? Do you have the Delta Pro developed in Kodak#s D 76 or Ilford's ID 11 @ the proper solution, temperature, time? Are you looking @ 1 hour lab prints or hand made stuff?

Let's suppose the negs are duely developed and the prints are tart - the one and only test that remains to be made to check your meter is by metering a gray card with your M6 and compare that metering with an incident light meter reading of the same gray card in the same light.

Finally, you should have your shutter checked...

Thumbs up.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), October 31, 2001.

Eric

I think the only real way is to tell using something with standard processing - such as slide film. I suggest you take a roll of slides (say Sensia 100/ or Elitechrome) using subjects in the shade or during an overcast day and meter a mid tone. If the slides look off then your meter might need some adjustment. To be off a half stop either way is acceptable. Personally I only change my film speed plus or minus a third of a stop to fine tune a slide film on all the Leicas I own.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

Thanks for everyone's fast response! A bit more info (since Lutz asked)...

1. I'm looking at the negs (not the proofs or contact sheet, which I know is a compromise print to allow all shots to be seen), and they're a bit thin.

2. I'm using a pro lab specializing in B&W for process and print. When I try to enlarge using one of the overexposed negs, the lab can usually print something decent. But I don't think their expertise makes up for my exposure problem! Also tried a different pro lab - same problems. BTW, never had any of these problems with either lab using same film (or Tri-X) using the rental M6 or my Contax T2.

I think I'll try the grey card experiment -- if I use slide film for its exactness in exposure, what slide film should I use? For this weekend, I guess I'll set the ASA dial for an extra 1/2 stop and process normal. Any other suggestions?

-- Eric Reid (eric_reid@lkshore.com), October 31, 2001.

It may not be a meter problem at all. The faster shutter speeds may be off enough to cause your overexposure. 1000 actually at 5-600 would cause almost a stop overexposure. Might want to have your shutter speeds checked out. You may need a CLA to true up the shutter speeds. Regards.

-- Don (wgpinc@yahoo.com), October 31, 2001.

Eric

As attested to above, there could be any number of problems wrong with the camera (meter, shutter, Iso setting dial) or with the film, development, or printing that could account for a one stop difference.

The best way to tell if the camera METER is off is to compare meter readings from your M6TTL with those froma properly calibrated hand held meter, probably best metering a gray card, as others have suggested.

I have a Gossen Luna Pro, which is a very accurate meter, but other brands should do fine. In my experience, an in camera meter like the M6 should agree with a hand held reflected light meter within half a stop or less. I have several Leicameters that couple to the shutter of older M cameras. These meters agree with the Gossen meter to within half a stop.

But the only way to know whether there is a problem with the M6TTL meter per se, is to test it against another meter that you know meters correctly.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), October 31, 2001.

>1. I'm looking at the negs (not the proofs or contact sheet, which I know is a compromise print to allow all shots to be seen), and they're a bit thin.<

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't a "thin" negative imply under- exposure, not over-exposure as stated in your original post?

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), October 31, 2001.

eric:

If you need a quick fix for the weekend, try one of the C-41 chromogenic B&W films Ilford XP2, Kodk Portra B&W or T400CN, that have a nuch wider latitude than silver films and can be processed in a more or less standard fashion-by a good 1 hour lab.

The grey card with the (white!!)egg and a piece of balck velevet is an excellent way to test the meter. A reading from the meter off the grey card used for a shot with teh grey card, the egg and the black velvet will give you the full gamut of zones.

With proper film speed rating, exposure and development you should have a mid grey for the card, JUST be able to see texture in the egg and JUST be able to see texture in the fabric.

As a quick check, you can take a reading with the M6 from a grassy area in full sunshine in the middle of the day and it should be either 250 or 500 at f16, tending more towards the 500, if you use 400 speed film. Good luck.

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

Jack -- You're right, thanks for the catch. As I was writing, I was comparing the negs to some that were actually thin and I wasn't paying attention to my post! The negs in question have all been overexposures that have insufficient detail. While we're on the topic, I always thought as a rule of thumb that it was better to have overexposure than underexposure. Is this right? How much overexposure is ok on B&W negative film? (I know it ought to have a wide latitude, but we're talking overexposure here...).

-- Eric Reid (eric_reid@lkshore.com), October 31, 2001.

The ASA speed is set on a dial, which is a hit or miss thing. Sometimes you may not have set it properly. The only way to be sure is to attach the Leica flash on it. The readout from the flash LCD tells you precisely.

-- Yip (koklok@krdl.org.sg), October 31, 2001.

Hi Eric,

if you are not to far North this time of the year you can check your meter against the Sunny 16 rule if you measure against a medium grey wall with the sun in your back, in the middle of the day should be good. You can either turn the ASA to 100 (or 125) and check that you get a reading of 1/125 at f/16 or, with ASA 400, a time of 1/500 and an aperture of approximately f/11 + 2/3.

The rule of thumb for exposing black&white film may be different with a modern film such as Delta or Tmax. These films are more sensitive to overexposure than old films such as FP4+ , HP5, Tri-x and Plus-x. With Tri-x I like the look with a 1/3 to ½ stop overexposure (or 1 stop and pulled development) even though it is beginning to show a lot of grain even there. With modern films overexposure is not recommended, a slight underexposure is better - even if the negatives look thin they can still produce high quality prints with modern emulsions.

For slide-film, you could begin with Kodak Ektachrome 100S, it seems to deliver a true ISO 100 and could therefore give you a good hint if something is wrong with your exposure meter.

-- Peter Olsson (peter.olsson@lulebo.se), October 31, 2001.