I do not, and will not likely have a darkroom at my disposal in the near future. But being and M6 user, the draw of BW is quite strong. My questions: Are there any labs that will still print on silver halide paper when they develop a BW (non-c41) for lets sat 50 cents a print? Or is it all custom work.

Or are there any that will print a C41 BW on silver halide?

And finally, has anyone used the new C41 BW films (I know of one by Kodak- Supra 400 BW I believe) that are designed to print on color paper. And in this case are their any speicifcations for the best method, paper etc (eg crystal archive or kodak royal gold)?

Essentially I want to shoot BW, get a small and decent set of prints, and pay less than $20 a roll.

-- Silas Larsen (slarsen@mail.colgate.edu), October 29, 2001

Answers

I don't think I ever got a B&W machine print from an inexpensively processed conventional B&W film that I was happy with. The local one hour lab near me does a good job on the new C41 B&W stuff. If I really get something special, I can later have it printed as an enlargement on conventional paper.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), October 29, 2001.

Does anyone know if labs still exists that print BW on silver halide without it being an expensive deal. What I mean is do processing machines exist for silver halide, or is it all hand work? My only experience with printing a conventional BW film onl color paper was horrendous, Zero contrast, washed out.

-- Silas Larsen (slarsen@mail.colgate.edu), October 29, 2001.

Silas, It looks like you have an academic email address. Your campus should have darkrooms somewhere, connected to photography classes or clubs. Alternatively, most communities still have rental darkrooms associated with adult "enrichment" classes at community colleges or community centers. Track one down and sign up, pay fees, or whatever it takes. It will still be cheaper than paying someone to do your processing. More important, it will be far more rewarding to you than being at the mercy of commercial processing. There is nothing to compare with processing your own negatives and prints to take control of the medium you're using.

-- Tim Nelson (timothy.nelson@yale.edu), October 29, 2001.

B&W work is highly interpretive. The best work is always obtained by doing your own printing.

I use a film scanner instead of an enlarger. I can process my own negs or have C41 process negs done by a photofinishing lab, then print via my scanner, Photoshop and inkjet printer very handily. Less expensive in general but time consuming.

Kodak designed the B&W Select and Portra B&W emulsions for C41 process and printing onto color paper at a photofinish lab. It would cost exactly what 35mm color prints would cost to get pretty good prints from these films. They also scan beautifully.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 29, 2001.

Silas: The best you are likely to get from an automated lab is C-41 B&W on a special Kodak paper similar to the C-41 films in that the image is a B&W dye cloud rather than silver- with no colour couplers/dyes. A good B&W Chromogenic neg on this paper maeks very good prints but few labs stock it. West Camera - 416 504 9432-in Toronto does and do a great job.

I make B&W prints in an apartment kitchen using equipment that cost less than $200 CDN total. It takes 10 minutes to set up and using resin coated paper with VC filters I get excellent results-not exhibition quality prints but ones that people pay me real money for.

Good Luck

The advice about a college or campus lab is the best way.

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

"Essentially I want to shoot BW, get a small and decent set of prints, and pay less than $20 a roll."

Quick answer: Shoot Kodak Portra B&W, go to a good minilab, and request reprinting if they butcher the color balance. Portra has the best dye set for consistent monochrome prints on color paper, right now.

Caveat to quick answer: The Portra negs may not be the best for traditional silver printing if you ever get around to it - they are designed specifically for color-machine printing. In this case the Ilford XP2 negs function a lot more like silver negs and may be a better compromise.

Personal experience: If you have a computer (you're getting HERE somehow) shoot real B&W, process it yourself (all you HAVE to have is a totally dark place - closet, internal bathroom - to load the processing tank) and then scan the images and print using a 1440-dot inkjet printer - Epson even makes 4x6 paper for proof-size prints. The cost advantage here is that you only have to print and pay for the pictures you like. This is what I do.

Optional approach: Find a pro lab that can process your film and make a contact print of the full roll (should run under $10 per roll). Then do your own scanning/printing. You can also use this approach with the C- 41 films, and then get selected small reprints via a minilab.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), October 30, 2001.