Thanksgiving recipes. : LUSENET : Unk's Troll-free Private Saloon : One Thread

I'm THINKING [although I'm not sure at this point that he won't be extended] that SO will be home for good at Thanksgiving time. I'm ALSO thinking [trying to forget the past Thanksgiving experiences with his family] that we could have Thanksgiving HERE, where *I* [sick thought, eh?] would do the cooking.

I put out a few feelers. His daughter is interested, and his niece is interested. Last year, Lucky and I got lost trying to find someone's house for Thanksgiving, showing up HOURS late, where Lucky had to pee so bad that I had to basically plow her into a bathroom that had no paper. I thought I'd forego that this year.

I'm not worried about cooking a turkey. I've done that a few times before, and recipes abound on the net these days, ya know. However, I'm ALSO thinking about cooking a prime rib roast. I found an interesting recipe that uses rock salt [both under and above the roast while cooking, not to be removed until time to serve.] Have any of you ever baked anything with rock salt? There was an interesting baked potato recipe [completely covered with rock salt] that captured my interest, as well.

-- Anita (, October 28, 2001


Hell Anita,

If you're gonna cook a piece of meat with rock salt why not just serve a country ham?Personally, Iv'e cooked a few prime ribs and I would probably shy away from doing anything that might mask the true flavor of a fine cut of meat.

I'm thinkin' about smoking a chicken(s), duck or a hogs ass this year, somethin a lil different to go along with the new surroundings.

Maybe we should mull this over?

-- capnfun (, October 28, 2001.

I've done a couple of things with rock salt Anita. The meat comes out delicious. I'll post a fav later, after work, when I can track down the recipe. My favorite steak house, known for their prime rib, roasts their prime rib in rock salt, after patting it all over with pickling spice, and I tell you it is out of this world! Stay tuned!

-- Aunt Bee (, October 29, 2001.

Capn: I think the purpose of the rock salt is not to add a salty taste [although I suppose it COULD do that], but to seal the roast. In fact, the second recipe of the two for prime rib mentions the extreme weight of the thing [can be up to 50 lbs], going on to say that the salt is cracked with a wooden mallet or hammer and then cracks like a clay-wrapped roast. That sounded pretty cool to me...the hammer part, not the weight part. Sounded to me like all the juices and flavor were sealed in.

-- Anita (, October 29, 2001.

Is there a link fer this recipe? Now that I understand what the concept is my curiosity is piqued.

-- capnfun (, October 29, 2001.

oughta be GREAT with margaritas!


Jus' me and Jimmy B,

Wastin' away again

down on the bayou.


-- Lon Frank (, October 29, 2001.

Capn: I printed it off and if I don't screw up on the typing, the link would be:

-- Anita (, October 29, 2001.

I don't understand what I did wrong there. Okay...I see the problem. Let's try this again.

this one

-- Anita (, October 29, 2001.

No way on the margueritas, Lon. I'll be making my home-made egg-nog for the occasion. For anyone interested, here's the recipe:


6 egg yolks 1 cup each: sugar, Grand Marnier, Rum 1/2 cup Brandy 1.5 quarts milk 6 egg whites 3 cups whipping cream, whipped.

Instructions: Beat egg yolks with electric mixer until thick and lemon-colored. Gradually beat in sugar, then Grand Marnier, rum, and brandy. Cover and chill for 1 hr. Stir in milk. Beat egg whites to soft peaks; fold into yolk mixture. Fold in whipped cream. Store in covered jars in refrigerator for a day before serving. Sprinkle each serving with nutmeg.

It's outstanding, and even the [heh] "mildest" guests start talking a lot after a few drinks.

-- Anita (, October 29, 2001.

Actually, Anita, I don't much like margaritas, too sweet. But when I used to fly once in a while, I got hooked on virgin marys. Now, I thrive on 'em, with extra lemon, extra salt (what hypertension?) some celery sticks, and a handfull of big fat Spanish Queen olives.


-- Lon Frank (, October 29, 2001.

Lon, try "Tomalives". That's a lil green tomato about the size of an olive pickled in olive juice.


-- Uncle Deedah (, October 29, 2001.

Yknow...a customer of mine just this week asked me if I am a vegetarian. I replied yes and then she proceeded to tell how to make the best prime rib I'd ever gee okay thanks. Seems she was a culinary arts major. So then I'm like..."oh great...thanks...I'll tell my grandma" . hmmm


She says to season the roast with herbs or whatever, and then roast uncovered in a 200 degree oven; one hour for every pound PLUS one hour. Take out and let sit, covered with aluminum foil, for 15-20 mins. before cutting, or the juices (BLOOD!) will run out.

-- (cin@cin.cin), October 29, 2001.


Will you be video taping this cooking extravaganza? Given your past comments on your cooking abilities you might be able to market such a tape on late night T.V. along with the other blooper videos (jk).

BTW I have had the prime rib cooked/coated with rock salt. Very, very tasty. Why do I get the feeling your main interest is in bashing the meat out of the rock salt?

-- Jack Booted Thug (, October 29, 2001.

Speaking of holiday recipies:

My Mother is a very good cook, but sometimes she gets over- ambitious. One Christmas she decided to make an English suet pudding, but it caught fire and had to be thrown away. Looking at the charred remains, I could not help thinking that the family had lucked out. The damn thing was suet with I guess sugar and stuff, but my God, I was appalled, and this was years ago before any of us were watching our diets very much.

(On another occasion, my Mother made an almond cake that had the family sitting there speechless wondering what to say. Finally my no- good younger brother, who up to that point had made only a handfull of intelligent comments his whole life, added to his string by saying that it tasted like cold cream - like for the hands. I immediately agreed. Why we kids knew how cold cream tasted like, I have no idea.)

-- Peter Errington (, October 29, 2001.

JBT: Heh. No, I don't think I'll be videotaping this one. I STILL like to believe that poltergeists are responsible for my tripping over my own feet, and a video of the experience may prove that wrong.

Why do I get the feeling your main interest is in bashing the meat out of the rock salt?

Very perceptive there, JBT. It isn't often that we can satisfy our more primal instincts, but I bake bread by hand [simply because I enjoy punching it around.] I really wanted to be the person in charge of knocking down buildings with the huge ball, but no one would hire me for that.

-- Anita (, October 29, 2001.

Far Side cartoon for today: [Helen comes to mind again, although this time it was due to the name.] Two witches are sitting in the frontroom talking. One witch has her hands resting atop her stomach, while the other says, "Oh, Helen! You're pregnant? That's wonderful!...At first, I was taking you quite literally when you said you had one in the oven."

-- Anita (, October 30, 2001.

I have a few more questions. [I'm trying to improve my culinary image this year, so bear with me.]

First of all, there are some folks coming who will eat NOTHING but corn-bread dressing, and then there's Lucky and I who will eat NOTHING but white-bread dressing, so I'm going to make both. I have printed off a "Grandma's Corn Bread Dressing" recipe, which might be what folks are accustomed to eating, but I also printed out an "Apple Pecan Corn Bread Dressing", which is probably sweeter in taste. On the one hand, I want people to eat what they like, but on the other hand I'd also like to maybe introduce them to something new. Whatcha think?

I found a traditional herb stuffing recipe [I doubt I could find the one I used a few years back, which TASTED great, although it was obvious I hadn't included enough bread]. Anyone know how much bread it takes to fill eight cups? Also, look at the recipe: Traditional Herb Stuffing. Do you think that's a typo on the poultry seasoning? I thought poultry seasoning came in those little shakers. A whole cup seems like a lot to me. Am I the only one that didn't know "savory" was a seasoning as well as an adjective?

-- Anita (, October 31, 2001.

Shameless bump in hope that someone will eventually answer.

-- Anita (, November 02, 2001.

Hey, 'Nita..

I'll give it my best shot here :)

In the recipe for the Herb Stuffing..yes, 1 cup of poultry seasoning seems to be way too much. In my dabbles in the kitchen with 'traditional pork stuffing' the amount of poultry seasoning for about 4lbs of stuffing would be alot less...'bout 3 or 4 tbls...sorta to taste, along with salt and pepper. Thing is to do less if ya hafta..then you can do more later..heh!....Also, the amount of garlic that recipe calls for is excessive too...start off with about 2 cloves..then add iffen ya wanna...and remember..taste test...taste test..taste test...

The bread my estimate is about (maybe one slice per cup, but that may be under a cup) to make up for lost crumbs I would try about 12 slices to make 8 cups...HEY...I've never used REAL bread slices to make bread stuffing, always bought Bells or something and messed around with the recipe..but about, 12 slices should do it, better to have too much than not enough.

The thing with trying Brand New Things is you should try to test them out ahead of the BIG EVENT...HEH...easier said than done!

Hope I helped somewhat :)

-- Peg (, November 02, 2001.


A second look at the 'traditional herb recipe' has proved to me that it's bogus..

cut and paste here..

1/2 C butter 1 med onion, chopped

2 stalks celery, chopped

4-6 cloves garlic, minced

2 tsp. salt

1 tsp. thyme 1 tsp. rosemary

1 tsp. sage 1 tsp. black pepper

1/2 tsp. savory 1 T dried parsley 1 C poultry seasoning 8 C stale bread,broken into one-inch pieces Serves 6-8

Melt butter in large skillet and add all ingredients except the bread and stock. Cook over medium heat until onions are soft. Pour into a large mixing bowl. Add the bread and stock and mix well.

umm...didn't notice anything 'bout stock in the recipe..mighta missed it somewheres..

OH..just by the Bells or Stove Top and dress it up a bit ;) Believe me, they'll never know the diff..heh, heh!

It's the love that counts! ;)

-- Peg (the lunch l@d.y), November 02, 2001.

Hay Anita!

Forgive my delay in responding. I found the recipe, but haven't made it in about a six months. It was delicious! This recipe uses regular salt, not rock salt. I used a tri-tip roast (which I can usually find on sale periodically for $1.99/lb) and it is rare for them to be over 2 1/2#. I like my meat exceedingly rare, and only cooked it for an hour. It came out tender and succulent! The recipe came thru a friend from her sister. This is the way it came to me:


Any size eye of round roast or tri-tip

Salt, moistened enough to pack together.

Heap the salt on the the roast and form a mound at least 1" to 1 1/2" thick. Broil 3-4 minutes till salt is very crusty. Handle carefully and discard the salt (not down the drain). Wipe off excess. Roast will have a slab of fat on one side. Use this as the "top" side). Do this salt and broil routine on "top" and on the "bottom", wiping excess salt with a paper towel. A 2# roast would probably take 90 minutes for med rare. Do no cook it any longer, or it will be dry. For those who like their meat more done, slice the roast and saute in butter til done.

-- Aunt Bee (, November 02, 2001.

As for the stuffing recipe, ROFLMAO on the 1 cup of poultry seasoning!! My grandmother taught me to make our family's cornbread- sausage-oyster stuffing as a child. However, I have made some adjustments to suit my personal taste for spicy food. It is basically the recipe on the Mrs Cubbinson Cornbread Dressing box, but first you saute a pound of HOT pork sausage (I like Owen's) til cooked, add a cube of butter, the chopped onion and diced celery, and cook til the onion is clear. (Of course, this assumes you have taken the heart, neck, gizzard [cook the liver separately, if you like to have it in giblet gravy] out of the bird and started them simmering in water and a can of chicken broth, with a few peppercorns, on the stove so you have some stock started). As you chop the onions and celery, throw the ends of the veggies in to flavor the broth (you know the parts ya cut off the onion and celery, roots, skin and all and mebbe a carrot too). I salt and peppergrinder the sausage/veggie mixture so the pepper oil heat up and releases it flavor. Add maybe a teaspoon of poultry seasoning, because the box stuff already has some. Turn off the heat, and add a 12 oz box of stuffing mix, a beaten egg, 2 6oz jars of fresh oysters including their juice, picked over and mix. Add a cup of simmering broth, and test for moisture, and seasoning (enough salt, pepper?) and adjust. You may need to add up to another cup of broth, but usually not more than a half cup. Ya gotta use your judgement and taste buds. And personally, I don't like stuffing baked in a pan, it's gotta be stuffed in the bird to get the flavor right. If you do that, be sure to rinse the cavity good, rub the inside with a cut lemon, squeezing it as you go, and salt and pepper the inside, before you put the stuffing in.

If you want white bread dressing too, think about stuffing the cavity with the kind you think the most people will eat, and stuff the neck with the other kind. My best buds make great white bread dressing in much the same way as the cornbread, but sauteeing shredded carrots with the celery/onion mixture and adding sweet vermouth as moisture in addition to the turkey stock. They leave out the oysters, and sometimes the sausage. The recipes are flexible to your tastes!

And I'll give ya my granddaddy's recipe for Egg Nog on the next go round!


-- Aunt Bee (, November 02, 2001.

Peg, Aunt Bee: Thank you for the advice. I'm going to look for another recipe for the Traditional Herb Stuffing. I'll also take your advice, Peg, and get the already cubed and dried stuff, which is so easily measured. I don't want any meat in the dressings, although I appreciate the recipe, Aunt Bee. I have a few vegetarians coming, so I'm trying to balance everything so that they don't have to worry about what obviously is meat and what might have "hidden" meat. SO said he'd like to try the Apple Pecan Corn Bread dressing, so I think I'll go with that one.

I'd LOVE to hear another egg-nog recipe, Aunt Bee. I'm also interested in how y'all make candied yams. I don't like yams, myself, and Lucky will only eat a baked sweet potato with a little butter, but lots of folks coming like yams. I did the marshmallow thing several years back, but found another recipe with cinnamon, raisins, and pineapple chunks. Anyone know which one tastes better?

About that tasting, Peg. That's a job for a cook. My mom had several recipes that said, "add flour until it feels right." Yeah, right. I approach cooking in the same way I approached Chemistry Lab. I measure on the miniscus, and I expect the recipe to be exact. I don't even know what to do when a recipe says, "bake for 50- 60 minutes." I simply bake it for 55.

-- Anita (, November 03, 2001.

Anita, my mother always mixed yams with REAL butter, brown sugar, and pineapple chunks. And when they were bubbly in the center, she roasted mini marshmallows over the top till they were golden brown. Delicious.

As far as the stuffing, I use fresh poultry herbs, thyme, rosemary, and sage, from the garden, real butter, onions, fresh garlic (just a little), celery is a must, and vegetable broth. I think the fresh herbs make the stuffing.

-- (cin@cin.cin), November 03, 2001.

p.s. I can't wait to have green bean bake, a tradition! yum

-- (cin@cin.cin), November 03, 2001.

"... I like my meat exceedingly rare..."

Oh heavens! That sweet lady is really a vampire...all the recipes are just lures to get us into her parlor and into her clutches...

One of my relatives makes a pumpkin/whipped cream/candied pecan thingy that is pure heaven and worth risking a vampire bite for. I'll try to get the recipe.

-- helen (we@need.Z), November 03, 2001.

Here is Grandaddy's Egg Nog recipe:

6 eggs 1/2 C white sugar 1/4 C white sugar 2 C whipping cream 2 C half and half 2 C Four Roses (bourbon, a brand they don't make anymore) 1 oz (2 TB) light rum freshly grated nutmeg (not the yucky pre-grated straw in the store!)

Separate the egg yolks from the whites. Beat the whites on high until stiff, add the 1/4 cup sugar after they become foamy. Beat until very stiff but not dry. In a separate bowl, beat the yolks on high speed 'til amalgamated. Add the 1/2 cup sugar and continue beating on high until they are VERY thick and light colored. Add to yolk mixture slowly, the whipping cream, and the 1/2 and 1/2 until amalgamated. Stir in the bourbon and rum. Fold in the egg white mixture to the yolk mixture gently. Refrigerate. Serve very cold with freshly grated nutmeg on top.

Grandaddy used to make this Christmas Eve, and stay up all night, sampling it, just to make sure it was "ok" I'm told (he died before I was born, so cannot attest to it!). In the morning it will have a lovely foam head on it when you dip it into cups. (S0 if you can, refrigerate it in the serving vessel.) I always add the freshly grated nutmeg when serving. Enjoy!

-- Aunt Bee (, November 03, 2001.

Uh huh. And we've passed out with full tummies stuffed with your yummy cooking -- THEN you'll get us...

-- helen (, November 03, 2001.

LOL Helen! We REALLT must talk!!

-- Aunt Bee (, November 03, 2001.

Make that REALLY!

-- Aunt Bee (, November 03, 2001.

I get volunteered to bring these every year:

Candied Yams

2 large cans of yams, drained
1 stick butter
1 package marshmallows
2 eggs
1/2 cup evaporated milk
1 cup brown sugar
1/3 cup flour
1 cup pecans, chopped

Oven temperature 350 degrees

Beat together eggs, evaporated milk, and white sugar. In a separate bowl, mix together brown sugar, flour and pecans. Line potatoes in dish. (You can chop them up a little if they are too large.) Pour egg mixture over potatoes. Then sprinkle brown sugar mixture over all of it. Dot pads of butter on top. Bake for 25 minutes. Add marshmallows on top and bake for 5 minutes more.

-- Pammy (, November 03, 2001.

helen, food is better than sex most of the time?

I disagree, but I guess it would depend on the partner. :)

-- Pammy (, November 03, 2001.

I guess I meant...I eat food more often...

-- helen (, November 03, 2001.


Tell me, have you been reading "Food for the Dead: on the Trail of New England's Vampires"? The author is due on Art Bell come tomorrow night...

Well, have you, Helen?

-- Aunt Bee (, November 03, 2001.

Give me a slice of pecan pie with homemade ice cream, and I might answer...

-- helen (, November 03, 2001.

lol @ helen

You're funny!

-- Pammy (, November 04, 2001.

OK Helen, just for you:

Mr Bell's Pecan Pie

Cream together:

1/4 c butter 3/4 c sugar 1 tsp vanilla 2 TB flour

Beat in:

3 eggs (one at a time) Stir in:

1/2 c Kahlua 1/2 c dark corn syrup 3/4 c evaporated milk 1 cup whole pecans

Pour into a deep pie shell (your favorite pie pastry recipe) Bake at 400 degrees for 10 minutes. Reduce heat to 325 and bake 40 more minutes until a knife tip inserted into the center comes out clean.

-- Aunt Bee (, November 04, 2001.

That pecan pie recipe sounds interesting, Aunt Bee. I'm wondering, though. Do liquor stores sell those little sample bottles? This 1/2 cup of this liquor, 1 cup of another liquor, etc. leads me to think that we'll have not only a huge liquor bill, but leftover stuff that we'll never drink.

Pam [I THINK it was Pam]: Thanks for the candied yams recipe. From what Cin said, I could maybe include the raisins and pineapple chunks along with the marshmallows. We'll see how much energy I have. I'm already getting tired just THINKING about all this cooking.

-- Anita (, November 04, 2001.


You can buy smaller bottles to cut down on the excess, maybe this will help.I hope the format works.

Ounce or Pony 1 oz (ounce) equals 3/4 shot, jigger or pony 1 oz (ounce) equals 3 cl (centiliters) 1 oz (ounce) equals 30 ml (milliliters) 1 oz (ounce) equals 2 tbsp (tablespoons)

Shot or Jigger 1 shot equals 1 1/2 oz (ounces) 1 shot equals 4.5 CL (centiliters) 1 shot equals 45 ml (milliliters) 1 shot equals 3 tbsp (tablespoons)

Cup 1 cup equals 8 oz (ounces) 1 cup equals 24 CL (centiliters) 1 cup equals 240 ml (milliliters)

-- capnfun (, November 04, 2001.

Anita, I hear ya! Actually in these parts, you can always find someone who's going down to Nogales Mexico who can pick up a bottle for you for around $5. Or you can get those miniatures (each one has a tablespoon it, so you would need 4 for the recipe, at around a buck apiece). And I keep a bottle of dry and sweet vermouth on hand (at around $3 a bottle) to cook with in place of wine, per Julia Child's example!! That's less than $10 by my count!

-- Aunt Bee (, November 04, 2001.

Left over alcohol???

-- helen (we@never.have.leftovers), November 04, 2001.

Helen: You already said somewhere that you don't drink alcohol. Who finishes off the cooking leftovers in your house, spouse or kids? I've never been fond of liquor, myself. SO will have a rum and coke about once/month. Even for company, we purchase wine, which most of us drink, although beer sits better in MY old stomach.

Where's Z on this thread? He mentions cooking in just about every thread he touches, but he ignores a recipe thread?

-- Anita (, November 05, 2001.

Who said we cooked with it? :)

-- helen (i@do.not.inhale), November 05, 2001.


I have been home with the flu; I skipped meetings in Nashville, but I have a redeye tonight to Seattle. Meetings in the morning; afternoon in Portland; then home by 2 am. This assumes [and I am not being disrespectful here] that nothing else happens to trap me in the northwest. One week of delayed travel has moved me towards the paranoid. A good friend from WU e-mailed yesterday that St Helens had 200 recorded earthquakes on the dome 4 Nov 01. If you remember, I was stranded there in 1980 by the last eruption. I guess that is a good friend. :)

I do have the Thanksgiving meal planned. Warning, I don't use recipes. It is a traditional meal; for us.

I will bake a Copper River Sockeye [it is frozen, I got it at Pike Street earlier in the year] with onions, garlic and spiced tomato sauce. I have soft shelled crab from Maryland. They will be fried in pepper/olive oil. Then we will have fresh oysters from Samish [northern Washington] breaded with my own collection of spices and sauteed in butter. Included will be winter squash from our garden [I have one hubbard that weighs 35 lbs]. It will be baked with butter and maple syrup. Polenta and potato salad. Finally, there will be pie. Oriental pears from the trees in the front and fresh ginger. That is about the state of the menu at the moment.

I have to get ready to leave. My lap top seems to have crapped out. Should there be a hyphen in crapped out. :)))

Best wishes,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 06, 2001.

Kinda makes me want to huff his trashcan.

-- helen adores food -- anyone's food as long as she didn't cook it (huff@the.stuff), November 06, 2001.

I wanna lose Z's hubbard..

-- Old Mother Peg (went to Z's tr@sh. cubbord), November 06, 2001.

Dang. I almost lost this thread. The time is coming up, and I don't want to do that.

I got an unexpected E-mail today from SO's daughter asking if I wanted help or her to bring something for Thanksgiving. I ran down the plan so far, and she's got what she considers a great recipe for yam souffle. [Um...throw the little dash over that.] I also told her how I was planning to do the prime rib roast and she surprised me by responding that she wasn't really very fond of Turkey and looked forward to the roast. She's also going to bake some corn bread.

I got to thinking about why we cook turkey every year for Thanksgiving. It's not MY favorite food, Lucky doesn't like it either, but we continue to carry on a tradition, maybe because a prime rib roast doesn't have a cavity in which to place stuffing? I dunno. She also honestly stated that her idea of corn-bread dressing did NOT include apples and pecans, so I'm switching to the "Grandma's Corn Bread Dressing". I really didn't want to stand there and peel apples anyway.

-- Anita (, November 13, 2001.

I almost forgot. Aunt Bee: This cornbread dressing recipe I have calls for a 9x13 inch baking dish. Presumably, it's done after only 30 minutes in a 350 degree oven. It seems like every recipe I look at requires this 9x13 inch baking dish, and I was counting on putting the stuffing in the orifices you mentioned. Do you see the stuffing coming out over-done if I cook it in the bird? Can stuffing even GET overdone?

LOL. I'm remembering a Tool-Time episode where Tim and Al took over a cooking show for a lady who went to visit her daughter or something. I think they were baking a duck and the thing flew out of the oven and out the window. [I don't want to see anything flying around my kitchen anymore, but I'm not feeling very confident right now.] Why can't cooking be as easy as Politics?

-- Anita (, November 13, 2001.

I didn't think you could do politics right either.

-- Jack Booted Thug (, November 13, 2001.

Damn JBT! Slide that knife in while she isn't lookin'...

This is FOOD, not politics. Anita and I are on the same page on this topic... : )

One traditional dish in NM for Thankgiving is homemade tamales... (mmmm)

I wish I had a recipe for them but I don't. We made some out of venison one time that were to DIE for (I guess for the deer that was a literal statement)...

Z, you definitely have an interesting menu going there. My household would boot me out if I brought all that home... Sounds really good to me though.

Sittin' watchin' everyone cook... (sniff, sniff, sniff... SLURP!)

The Dog

-- The Dog (, November 13, 2001.

Anita, my experience with putting the "dressing" in the pan to cook is that it always come out DRY. (If you must for vegetarians, cook it separately, do put foil over it.) After all, what is to keep it moist? The beauty of putting "stuffing" in bird orifices is that it gleans the flavor of the bird into it (one of the reasons you may not wish to stuff your bird). And if you are not using any meat in the dressing, you need only warm it, and cook the raw egg, which doesn't take long. BTW, ya gonna make giblet gravy???? Hey, I read where you're a bread baker, ifn I get time, I'll post the recipe for the yeast rolls I always make for my best buddy for Thanksgiving. I just love it when he holds one up to his nose, and goes "MMMMMMMM"!


Tamales are traditional here too! Ya wanna Sonoran recipe? I have several. I like mine HOT, HOT, HOT! One of my favs is the one that is the most work, with a potato stick, a carrot stick, and jalapeno slices on top of the chilied meat!! Hey, I bet you can find fresh masa where you are!! Some of the best Christmas tamales I ever had were TURKEY tamales!!! Stop by anytime, I ALWAYS have tamales in the freezer, though I save them for special occasions :)) Nothing but the best for my guests!! Hey, what do ya think of the Pink Adobe Restaurant? Ever been there?

-- Aunt Bee (, November 13, 2001.

Anita, stuffed birds don't reach a high enough temp internally during cooking to kill the germs the stuffing picks up from the raw bird.

-- Blue Hair Concern (, November 13, 2001.

Untrue Blue Hair! Otherwise, none of us would be here!! Think about that one!

-- Aunt Bee (, November 13, 2001.

Aunt Bee, Pink Adobe? Where is that located? I know I have heard of it, but I can't say I have ever been there...

Helen, you crack me up, I want you to know you are invited to my house anytime, and we'll roast a watermelon... and maybe BBQ a goat... : ) Can you say Metanza??? A little tequila on the chicken, some in the glass, a little on the floor, hell, we'll even give some to the mule...

Anita you don't know what you have started here...

And Pammy I 'll see you a little later... ; )

Cap'n, set course for Atlantis, warp 1...: )

Tail waggin'...

The Dog

-- The Dog (, November 13, 2001.

Yes, Aunt Bee. I will be making giblet gravy. I love giblet gravy. I would also be very interested in your bisquit recipe. My mom made the greatest bisquits [actually more like buns] when we were kids. In fact, every family get-together, she'd make these buns and bring them to my Aunt's, where they'd be used for sloppy-joes. Even if she still had the recipe, I fear it would look like her others: Flour, milk, eggs, etc. Add flour until it feels right. Bake.

Helen: I heard all the scares about germs from the bird, but [like Aunt Bee], I never felt the stuffing tasted the same cooked on the side. And how DID we get to be this old if this was such a dangerous practice? MY mom always stuffed the bird. Didn't yours? It saves space in the oven, and I don't have all these 9x13 pans. I'll have to think about the bird juices offending the vegetarians. Any input on that, Cin?

-- Anita (, November 14, 2001.

Good Morning Anita,

My stuffing turns out great, even without the turkey juices. I use an abundance of butter(hey it's a special occasion!), celery (maybe the veggies add moisture, maybe you can try shredded carrots too), a big juicy onion, and vegetable broth (if you have a trader joe's nearby, they have really good veg broth). Bake in a covered dish, on the top shelf of the oven, and then take off the cover and let it brown on the top a little bit. Your guests may also greatly appreciate some meatless gravy. If you swing by most any healthfood store, you could probably find a mix for meatless gravy. If not, you can make it yourself, it's not too difficult. Just make a roux with some butter and flour and brown it slightly and then add some veg broth and spice it up a with a bit of garlic, onion powder salt pepper to taste. Better yet, add mushrooms to the roux. They add a lot of flavor. Hope this helps.

I'll be working on Thanksgiving but I will cook on Christmas. (boys are going to their dad's)

-- (cin@cin.cin), November 14, 2001.

Thanksgiving huh....I usually just go to Burger King.

-- Uncle Deedah (, November 14, 2001.

The argument that stuffing cooked in the bird hasn't killed you YET isn't a good one. By the time you figure out the error of your ways, you'll be on your way to helen's handbasket.

First, the birds are mass-produced and dosed automatically with antibiotics. Germs who survive the antibiotics are stronger. More birds, more strong germs.

Second, have you been in a poultry processing plant? I have. The birds are given a last gentle bath with squeaky toys, right? Sadly no. They are dumped together into the same vat of water, poop and all, and processed by the people who either would not or could not get a job anywhere else for whatever reason you care to imagine. The application doesn't even ask if the applicant has intestinal parasites, which is a very important question to ask anyone handling your food.

(Aunt Bee...?)

Third, your bird is handled by shipping companies and then by minimum wage workers at your local store. Even if they don't swipe snot with their bare hands and then transfer it to the outside of your bird's package, they may not get around to putting them into the cool case until after their lunch break, if then. And never mind your cousin's ex allows the kids to tote food around the store and leave it in the sports department to be found by the night shift.

Fourth, washing your bird with city tap water may not be a good idea. Check with your local health department. If they haven't issued a boil-alert, have them call me. If you can't drink it, why wash your bird in it?

Fifth, a stuffed bird takes longer to reach the optimum temperature internally. I'm not worried about catching anything from the crispy skin on the outside. I'm worried about catching something from the gutted, poorly washed, super-germ laden inside.

You have the option of killing your own bird. I have lots of birds I could kill. I can if I want to. Any time. No problem. I'll just go out there and whack 'em with an axe. Well, maybe give them a gentle bath with squeaky toys first. And a snack in front of the tube. And read them a story. Maybe next year.

-- Blue -- you can't beat us, so we'll join you (blue@birds.for.dinner), November 14, 2001.

Helen: I think you're a little too consumed with this germ thing right now. I know that you've worked in many areas in which you learned what was happening behind the scenes, but why do you think that these same things weren't going on many years ago? There was even LESS known about cleanliness when *I* was a kid than is known now.

I don't let homemade cole-slaw or potato salad sit outside the refrigerator for more than 10 minutes. When I was a kid, we had bowls of the stuff sitting out in the mid-day sun for the whole day. People drew from the bowls the whole day, and sometimes into the night. Nobody died.

I once cooked for a whole slew of people around Christmas-time in Chicago, and not having enough room in the frig, I placed much of the food out on the porch. As life would have it, the temp was about 75 that year in December. The potato salad even got rained on. Ready to throw it out, my cleaning lady at the time said, "I think it's still good." I told her that it had sat outside and been rained on, and she didn't care. She wanted it. I gave it to her. She came back for many weeks thereafter. I think we're all a little too conscious of germs these days. HOWEVER, Helen, if *I* die, or kill one of my guests, feel free to state that the "Blue-Hairs" had foreseen this event.

-- Anita (, November 14, 2001.


Helen: I think you're a little too consumed with this germ thing right now.

You obviously don't live with mules. ;o)

The increased concern is partially paranoid and partially real. In the olden days, people killed a turkey and cleaned it. Now-a-days, the process is mechanized. The guts are ripped out by a machine. Any bacteria, including those selected for by antibiotic enriched feed, are scatter all over the bird.

While, I agree with you in general, things aren't quite the same. Alice, remember Alice, she kept her garbage for sometime. Wouldn't do that today. ;o))

Best Wishes,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 14, 2001.

Did I really say "top shelf of the oven"? Of course I meant top rack, but this is what my brain looks like at 5:30 am before I've finished my first cup of coffee ;)

-- (cin@cin.cin), November 14, 2001.

Thanks for the input, Cin, and I DO want you to know that I ruminated on this the entire day. My final decision may not be to your liking, but I'm entertaining at least 10 carnivores on Thanksgiving, and only 2 vegetarians. These two are daughters of SO's brother, and I know damn well that his wife would cook the stuffing in the turkey. The vegetarian gravy was a good idea, and I thought about that a long time, as well. However, jiblet gravy is such a bitch in itself that I decided not to make additional gravy. Again, it's a majority rules kindof thing.

If the girls are offended by the dressing touching the turkey or the gravy, I'm still offering them Southern Cooked greens, the yam souffle and corn bread that SO's daughter is bringing, plain baked sweet potatos, mashed potatos, bisquits, baked macaroni and cheese, mixed vegetables and pumpkin and apple pie. I don't think they'll go hungry.

I really did appreciate the gravy comment, though. I hadn't even thought how jiblet gravy might be associated with meat. [Duh!]

-- Anita (, November 14, 2001.

Geez, Jeez...giblet gravy, jiblet gravy. I think I need to watch Sesame Street again.

-- Anita (, November 14, 2001.

Anita, think carefully. Admit it. Nearly all of the adults you knew as a child are ... dead! Z agrees with us. That's all the endorsement we need.

-- Blue Hair Agenda -- taking over the kitchens of america first (, November 14, 2001.

Well, Helen, since I woke up feeling so damn guilty this morning over that lie I told my brother, I decided I couldn't incorporate any more guilt. I'll be cooking the stuffing on the side. I'll need to check out the thrift store to see if they have 9x13 pans. I may as well go ahead and plan on the meatless gravy, as well.

-- Anita (, November 15, 2001.

First Z, now Anita...everything is falling into place perfectly...

-- Blue Hair Alliance -- we do the hard thinking for you (trust@us.with.your.lives), November 15, 2001.


You don't necessarily need a 9 x 13 pan to bake the stuffing in. You could also use a 2 or 3 qt. casserole dish, as long as it's oven proof :) No need to make things more diffucult than they have to be.

Oh...and about those germs and bacteria that harbor in those fowl birds...HEAT/COOKING at a high enough temp. for the appropriate amount of time KILLS said germs and bacteria...HARUMPH!

and never ever stuff a bird ahead of time, do it right before placing in oven :)

-- Peg - one that is resistant to the Blue Hair Alliance (the @ lunch. lady..feeling stronger than ever), November 15, 2001.

I would think the casserole dish would be better because of the lid to cover it would keep the moisture in the stuffing...

Dodgin' though the mass of canes and walkers as the blue hair coalition is knocked on their collective butts... (snicker)

The Dog

-- The Dog (, November 15, 2001.

I don't have any casserole dishes either. I'm beginning to question why I even volunteered to do this dinner. I have NO skill, NO equipment, and my guilt over lying to my brother is finally starting to wane. I'll see how I sleep tonight, but I just might go back to the stuffing the bird thought. I can't imagine baking anything other than a Butterball, so I might just check their website and see what they offer on safety tips.

-- Anita (, November 15, 2001.


I did roast trucky a few weeks ago. They had a special on local fresh truckies.

I made chestnut stuffing. I have 3 large chestnut trees and, in a good year, like this one, I can compete with the fuzzy-tailed rats and get enough for one batch of stuffing. I cook it in a clay pot. You soak these things in water and they steam the food. Works well and keeps the stuffing moist.

Best Wishes,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 15, 2001.

Z: In order to get a clay pot, I'd have to dump out a plant. Face it. I don't have the skill or equipment that you have. I'm back to the thought of stuffing the turkey. Here's a start from the Butterball site. It seems that one simply needs to ensure that the temperature of the stuffing inside the bird meets the proper temperature. Heh. I have to go back and take another look to see what that temperature is. I DO have a meat thermometer. The last time I used it was to grill one of those free-game turkey legs. I thought midnight would come before the damn thing was done, and the free-game stuff didn't taste any better to me than the ordinary soaked in spit stuff.

-- Anita (, November 15, 2001.


The ones that I have were made in Germany. I got them more than 25 y ago before this stuff became trendy. They were fairly cheap at the time [otherwise we couldn't have afforded them].

Some things like stuffing [or lamb roast] are much better cooked this way. With the yuppies losing their jobs in Texas, you might be able to find them used. ;o)

Best Wishes,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 15, 2001.

Here ya go, Blue Hairs.

-- Anita (, November 15, 2001.

sniffle...we only want what's best for all of you. Is it so wrong to force it on you...?

-- Blue Hairs have feelings too... (our@chins.quiver), November 15, 2001.

I don't have any casserole dishes either. I'm beginning to question why I even volunteered to do this dinner. I have NO skill, NO equipment

Now, now, there Ms. 'Nita... There is an answer to all of this and it's simple.

When you are at the grocery store, buying the ingredients, for the sumptuous repast you are about to deliver next week, keep one thing in mind...

I CAN DO THIS!!..heh!...Don't listen to those Blue Hairs..I have it on good authority they sleep with Jack Booted Thugs and shed..eeeewwwww ;)

Now that the internal temp. of the stuffing thingee is solved...Guess What?? can cook some stuffing in the bird and some out..(that's what I used to do for my vegan sister..until a few years ago, when she decided she wanted to eat meat again..go figure..made it alot of a heck eaiser on moi..heh).

Anyway, when you're at the store, they usually sell those fairly cheap aluminum pans, they come in all different sizes and shapes. Buy one for the amount of stuffing you would like to cook outside the bird and just make sure that you add a little water to it and cover it with foil before putting it in the oven. The oven time shouldn't be too long even if the stuffing is cold from the fridge (that means you could actually make it the night before..hence less work on the big day)..I would say about 30 to 45 mins. in a 325/350 degree oven, on a top rack (like cin said :) should do it.

-- Peg (well, @ least. I don't shed :)), November 15, 2001.

Peg: [my savior]: That's a good idea. I could put a little bit of both the cornbread and white-bread stuffing into one of those little trays. I think I might even still have one of those. I have tons and tons of tin-foil, so I could line the tray under, over, and into the bedroom. It seems that now my last decision involves the making of special gravy for two guests. I suppose I could put out some queries and see how purist they are.

-- Anita (, November 15, 2001.

"I have tons and tons of tin-foil"

OH!!! OH!!! We can have a party and make hats!!!

-- capnfun (, November 15, 2001.

Cap'n: Only if those tinfoil hats are to be used for nekkid hat skulking would I even consider such a thought.

-- Anita (, November 15, 2001.

Lord, the images in my mind.

Nekkid tin foil hat skulking.

Got pics?

-- capnfun (, November 15, 2001.

Heaven spare us!

-- Blue Hair -- only our hairdressers know for sure... (is@she.REALLY.blond?), November 15, 2001.

Well, SO visited his brother yesterday, who said it was highly unlikely that his two vegetarian daughters will come to dinner this year. It seems he never sees them. I think they'll show up, but with a "highly unlikely" status, I see no reason to cook stuffing on the side or make extra gravy.

Thanks for the conversion chart, Capn. SO's going to the liquor store today with the list and the chart in hand.

Aunt Bee: Time's running short for that bisquit recipe.

-- Anita (, November 20, 2001.

I'm getting frustrated now. I can't find another herb dressing recipe I like. How does this sound? Use 2 cloves of garlic instead of the 4-6, use 2 tbl of poultry seasoning instead of the cup, and try a 14-oz can of chicken broth and add enough until the bread is all juicy, but not runny?

-- Anita (, November 20, 2001.

That sounds like a fairly good solution. Just add the broth slowly, mixing well, 'til the bread cubes are moistened, but not runny like ya said.

Can't wait to hear how it all comes out, Anita :)

-- Peg (I h@ve faith. in you), November 20, 2001.


You are getting yourself too worked-up over this. The breading is just the background. It is like the white paint you use to color when you are oil painting. Now, after years of experience, the white paint that I use is Pepperidge Farm, Herb Seasoned, dressing. I have tried many other approaches. It has some herbs and is consistant. What I add overpowers what they supply, just like adding colors to white paint. From the northwest; good Puget Sound oysters that have been sauteed in butter. From the south, either fried sausage or blackeyed peas. From here, fresh chestnuts or black walnuts. From the southwest, peppers and/or nopalitos [of course not all in the same dressing, :)]. I add whatever else I want; good mushrooms will work. This isn't rocket science. Just add stuff until you like the taste. By-the-by, I found that fresh ginger and nopalitos went well with sausage stuffing. [g]

Best Wishes,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 20, 2001.


Here's Ma's roll recipe if you are so inclined.

"Miracle Rolls"

3 cups self-rising flour

1 cup solid shortening

3 pkg yeast

1/3 cups sugar

1tsp soda

2 cups buttermilk

1/2 tsp salt

Warm buttermilk and dissolve yeast in it.Add shortening, sugar and salt, blend mixture.Sift soda and flour together.Stir in buttermilk mixture.Make into rolls.let rise until doubled. bake at 450 until brown (15 mins).Makes 24 rolls.

I also have a yeast roll recipe around here somewhere is that's preferrable. Have fun cookin'.

-- capnfun (, November 20, 2001.


Cap has just exposed himself as a fraud. If you are from the south and you make biscuits, you never use yeast. Shame on you Cap. ;o))))

Best Wishes,,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 20, 2001.

Capn: Thanks. I've printed that out. You wouldn't happen to "have a handle" on the "make into rolls" process, wouldja? When, exactly, do I get to punch the dough?

Z: Rocket science isn't rocket science to a rocket scientist either. And I wouldn't call anyone a fraud if I were you. I've met Cap'n. I liked him, and if he ain't from the South, I ain't from the North.

-- Anita (, November 20, 2001.


There is a difference between yeast rolls and bisquits. The fraud thing was a joke. I''m sure that Cap got it. What you want is up to you.

Best Wishes,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 20, 2001.

No offense taken Z,I dig. the reason you would put yeast in a roll is to have fluffier, lighter bread, I don't think that's a north/south thang but more of a baking thang.

Anita, just pull or spoon off a med sized chunk at a time and put it onto the pan/sheet or..... roll it all out into one big even piece (usually with a roller) then use your cutter or mom always used a glass to make the size she preferred.Hope that helped.

-- capnfun (, November 20, 2001.

No punching?

-- Anita (, November 20, 2001.

Such disappointment in Anita's post.

Come on guys come up with a recipe that calls for punching, hacking or bashing. Anita has been so stressed over this Thanksgiving dinner thing that she needs some entertainment in her cooking. Think of something really fun and hands on.

-- Jack Booted Thug (, November 20, 2001.

I invited all the same people for dinner that I've always invited...and no one ever came before and now they're ALL coming! I think I may have 40 people or so. How many different dishes can I make with rice??

-- helen (thanksgiving@chicken.anyone?), November 20, 2001.


Now, come on, fluffier and lighter; that is not southern. It has to survive the sauces. I have a good bisquit thing [I don't use recipes] but it is too late for Anita to deal with the required ingred's; it involves nutmeg and other such stuff.

Cap as a fluffy person; I find that hard to believe. ;<)))

Best Wishes,,,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 20, 2001.

Capn', you mean to tell me you don't make "cathead" biscuits? 4" in diameter and about 1/2 lb. each? You sure you aren't posting from New Hampshire or somewhere? : )

Watchin' the bread rise...

The Dog

-- The Dog (, November 21, 2001.

Actually I preferr Corn Pones or Pone Bread and I think they are the same as Cathead Bizcuts, the rolls were made by Mom when we had a special dinner with city people attending, cause they look a bit fancier.

I ain't never used nutmeg in any bizcuts, that does sound a lil "fluffy" to me ; )

-- capnfun (, November 21, 2001.


It is very German. You can't make dumplin's without nutmeg. Works wonders in those little bisquits.

Best Wishes,,,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 21, 2001.

You think I don't have nutmeg in my spice cabinet, Z? [Actually, I don't know if I do or I don't, but we learned we had half the stuff called for in the various recipes I've chosen.]

I'm going to do quite a bit of this cooking/baking today. I think I have the list complete for what we need from the store. I don't know why you thought it was too late to buy something, Z. The groceries around here are open all day and still stocked. There are enough within a 3-block range so that if one doesn't have what I need, I'll simply try the next.

SO was a little baffled when I said I'd be making the bisquits tonight. Sheesh. I only have one oven, and the prime-rib will spend the night in it. Of course now he expects hot bisquits with dinner tonight, and he'll get some [in more ways than one].

Good luck with all those people, Helen. I hope you have more than one oven and a plethora of 9x13 pans.

To all the rest of you, I offer my thanks, and best wishes for a most excellent Thanksgiving.

-- Anita (, November 21, 2001.

One final note before I get back to work. I am at home beginning tomorrows meal. Now, I don't have to feed the multitudes like Helen. Still, I have at least one couple from each of the worlds major religions. The vegans are the worst. Planning a meal becomes a logistical nightmare. No shell fish or pork here, no beef there, etc.

Then there are pies. Pie crust is like tortillas; you can't make it without lard. At least if you want good pie crust. So for non-lard pie crust, I bought some 9 in premade ones at the store. I used some canned pumpkin with their recipe; it said it would make one 9 in pie per can and I wanted two. Well it made 4. The raccoons will eat well tomorrow night. ;)

I have to get back to my cheese-herb bread. Have a good holiday everyone.

Best Wishes,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (, November 21, 2001.

"Of course now he expects hot bisquits with dinner tonight, and he'll get some [in more ways than one]."

My kind of line! ;)

-- Pammy (, November 21, 2001.


You slay me!!..LOL!!.. You too, 'Nita..GAWD..I'm lmao...


I know you're not on this thread, but I hope you read this.

You are forgiven..go in peace, young man..(g);) I had no idea that you were in "customer sevrice"..bless you my son!

To the above and helen, Z, Dog, capn, cin, Unk, JBT, Aunt Bee, Ken, Deb, Chris, Peter...and any others I may have missed..

Happy Thanksgiving

May I also include..

Patricia, Stephen B., Stephen P., Buddy, Larry, Charlie, Cherri, Maria, CJS, Nick..I know I'm going to forget someone..I don't mean to :)

Most of all, I miss Mutha... :(

-- Peg (, November 21, 2001.


My goodness, I missed you, sorry..

Have a good one, dude!

You be my *starman*..


-- Peg (wom@n with. crooked neck), November 21, 2001.

Well, Peg, I'm actually on a downer right now. The pumpkin pie crust got too crispy for my tastes [meaning a portion of it looked burned], but I DID save the Apple Pie from the same fate by putting tin-foil around the crust before putting on the topping.

The bisquits didn't rise, were too moist to roll, only provided 18 bisquits [instead of 24], and SO already ate two of the 18. I guess the good thing is that HE didn't think they tasted bad, although he WAS hungry, and the bisquits were still hot.

I spent several HOURS removing the stems from greens that only about 2 people will eat. Why does ANYONE eat this stuff? It has NO nutritional value and requires more work than I'm EVER going to put in again. [and I'm saying that BEFORE I've spent the time chopping 3 cups of sweet onions to add to the damn thing.]

When I got ready to put the prime rib roast in the pan with the rock salt, I learned that after 30 hours in the refrigerator, it was STILL frozen solid. SO is playing with the microwave defrost wonder right now on that one. SHEESH!

I guess the one good thing from today is that SO bought and installed some wooden blinds in the living room. Open windows have hindered my night-time nekkid hat skulking experiment, but now we're free to engage, and I could sure use the "aside" [if you get my drift].

-- Anita (, November 21, 2001.


You should tune into the food channel. They have the Naked Gourmet (or something like that). Perhaps he would take you on as an apprentice, I understand that he devotes one entire episode on the proper way to defrost your entree. Gee that sounds kind of........Pammyish in its own way.

If the Naked Gourmet doesn't trip your trigger you could try the Two Fat Ladies. One of my all time favorite cooking shows. The only problem is that drinking heavily seems to be one of their mainstays for proper food preparation. Given your experience so far that may be the wisest course yet. Start drinking now and continue through late tomorrow and your Thanksgiving will be fine. Happy Rib Roast Cracking.

-- Jack Booted Thug (, November 21, 2001.

Start drinking now and continue through late tomorrow and your Thanksgiving will be fine.

There's ANOTHER problem. I had only enough Grand Marnier to fill 1/4 of a cup. Why did he take Capn's chart to the liquor store if he was going to return with only 1/4 of a cup? So I added all the rest of the stuff [not adding more liquor to make up for the lack of Grand Marnier], but looking at the way the bowl poured out into the pitchers, I think the FIRST container had more egg/whipped cream, etc., while the second had most of the liquor. Let THAT be a lesson to ya. Liquor sinks, while eggs and whipped cream RISE. At least it seemed like that, to me.

You watch cooking shows, JBT? I thought *I* had no life.

-- Anita (, November 21, 2001.

Sorry to get back to this thread so late~! Hey cap'n, cool of you to share yer maw's recipe for rolls! I'm gonna try 'em! Sound like your mama was a fine cook, and so glad she shared her recipes with ya and now you shared one with us! Thank ya kindly capn!

It's probably too late for this year Anita, but maybe you could give them a test run some time to see whatcha think!

My favorite roll recipe is from a 1960 something edition of Fanny Farmer, a butter fantan roll-yummy! Made with lotsa butter in between the layers. But this is what I ususally take to my best bud's house for dinner when we share Thanksgiving (tho' not this year, sadly). It is from Gourmet Mag Dec, 1989, from the reader's contributions section:

Ivy's Butterhorn Rolls

1 TB dry yeast 1/2 cup sugar 1 tsp salt 1/2 cup vegetable oil 1 cu milk 4 1/4 to 4 3/4 cups all purpose flour 3 medium eggs (I use extra large) melted unsalted butter for brushing the rolls

IN a small bowl proof the yeast with 1 teaspoon of the sugar in 1/4 cup warm water for ten minutes, or until it is foamy. In the large bowl of an electric mixer combine the remaining sugar, the salt and the oil, add the milk, scaled, and stir in the 4 1/4 cups of flour, stirring to combine the mixture well. Add the yeast mixture and the eggs and with the dough hook beat in enought of the remaining hal cup flour to make a soft, sticky dough. Transfer the dough to an oile bowl, turning it to coat it with the oil, and let it rise, covered with plastic wrap, in a warm place for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, or until double in bulk. Punch down the dough, on a floured surface divide it into 4 equal parts, and roll each part into a ball. working with 1 ball at a time and keeping the reamining balls coverdd with a kitchen towel, roll the balls on the floured surface into 8 inch circles, cut each circle into 8 wedges, and beginning with the wide ends, roll up the wedges jelly-roll fashion. Arrnge the rools, points down, inches apart on an ungreasted baking sheets and let them rise, covered loosely, in a warm place for 1 hour, or until they are double in bulk. Brush the rolls lightly with the butter and bake them in the middle of a preheated 375 degrees overn for 12-15 minutes, or until they are pale golden. Transfer the rolls to racks and let them cool. The rolls keep, wrapped tightly in foil in plastic bags and frozen, for 1 month. Makes 32 rolls.

As for biscuits (nobody make good ones except my grandmother, IMHO!) but here is one given to me by a friend at work some years ago. I personally don't like them, and never buy Bisquick, and am not fond of garlic powder, but some folks think these are to die for.


Preheat the oven to 450 degrees.

Combine 2 cups buttermilk baking mix, 2/3 cup milk, 1/2 cup shredded cheddar cheese with a wooden spoon until a soft dough forms. Beat vigourously 30 minutes. Drop dough by heaping tablespoonfuls onto an ungreased cookie sheet. Bake 8-10 minutes, until golden brown.

Combine 1/4 cup melted butter and 1/2 teaspoon garlic powder. Brush over warm biscuits before removing from cookie sheet. Serve warm. Makes 10-12 biscuits.

Dog, The Pink Adobe is in Santa Fe. I'm so sorry you won't be home for Thanksgiving!

And I second Peg's thoughts!! The Happiest of Thanksgivings to each and every one of you!! May all your cooking mistakes turn out to be winners!

I know I will be counting my many blessings tomorrow, but then I do every day!

-- Aunt Bee (, November 21, 2001.

Sure! NOW that I'm approaching my breaking point I get a recipe that involves punching. [There could STILL be time. I get up early and the stores are open until 4pm tomorrow.]

-- Anita (, November 21, 2001.

"Gee that sounds kind of........Pammyish in its own way."

I'm corrupting you'se guys. ;)

I've made those Red Lobster biscuits. They are YUMMY!

(((((Aunt Bee))))) Happy Thanksgiving to you, too!

-- Pammy (, November 21, 2001.

LOL Anita! Hope your Thanksgiving dinner is the most successful ever! Hugs to ya friend!

-- Aunt Bee (, November 21, 2001.

I have been in recovery for the past 9 years from the lst time I took on thr complete fsmily thanksgiving meal at my home. Most people are now back on speaking terms, those who haven't passed away. I may give it a try again in 4 or 5 years, after all the lawsuits have been settled.

Meantime the girls and I will go enjoy Thanksgiving at the in-laws, where the food is without challange, the best I have ever eaten. Sweetpotato pie, greens, cornbread, scalloped potatoes with hotlinks, turkey with corn dressing, ham, beefroast, corn on the cob, masses of salads, and deserts to die for, yams with marshmellows, and platters of leftovers to take home for everyone. Yumm If I get lucky, there will be some seafood gumbo.

-- Cherri (, November 22, 2001.

Aunt Bee,

The Dog is home today... Flew in yesterday afternoon... The sky is gorgeous... I have never ate at many restaurants in Santa Fe, may have to try that one.

Damn cat woke me up this morning howling to be let in... It is amazing how much noise comes from such a small body...

Cherri, ROTFLMAO...

Hi Pammy!

Everyone here have a happy Thanksgiving!

Sniffin' in the kitchen... (MMMMMM!!!)

The Dog

-- The Dog (, November 22, 2001.

(((((Dog))))) Glad you made it home safely! Happy Thanksgiving and be careful chewing those bones. :)

-- Pammy (cooking@nd.more cooking), November 22, 2001.

That WAS a funny story, Cherri. We'll see if anyone speaks to ME after today's dinner. Nothing ever goes as planned when I cook. I'm sure I screwed up that recipe of Capn's myself, by overheating the buttermilk. Yeast is funny that way, I think. It likes warmth to work, but too much warmth kills it. [and to think I turned down an offer from SO's SIL to bring rolls.] Oh well, she didn't ask until last night, so I figured she didn't really want to bring anything but thought she'd play nice and ask.

The rock-salt roast baked overnight. 9-10 hours or until the internal temp raises 125, eh? Well, after 9 hours it was already 170. We've also been stepping on rock salt all day. Maybe it will be okay. I can't look until time to serve, and by then it's too late. The stuffings look okay. I think I'm finally done chopping, so SO can vacuum the kitchen. He wanted to get the rock salt up, but I figured that was a fruitless gesture since I was still throwing onions and celery around the room. What a peach he is. As I fried up the celery and onions for the second stuffing, I said, "I think I'm finally done chopping. Still have all those potatos to peel, though." Within a flash he was peeling the potatos. The poor guy needs a nap. I woke him up at 4:30, needing a little release before I started the big day. He also did all the dishes this morning from last night's messy experiences. Once the stuffing gets into the bird [with a whole lot on the side, it seems], I'll get my large bowls back and be able to do the next round. I don't want to start the turkey before 10, so I must wait a bit. At least I'm more relaxed now. If it's good, FINE. If it's NOT, well, everyone has their forte, and someday I'll find mine.

I wonder how Z's dinner is coming along. I wonder if Dog's having tamales. I wonder if Capn made the pig or a bird. I wonder if anyone will die from my food. Curious and curiouser.

-- Anita (, November 22, 2001.

Hi Anita,

Well, this year I'm cookless, not one thing and it seems soooo odd but I will more than make up for it in Dec.with da big spread.Goin over to the next door neighbors house for their small wedding and then to their kins house for dinner, talk about a departure from the norm but then this entire move has been a quantum leap from the ordinary.All I have to do is buy beer and take a bottle of vino, I think I can handle that.

I'm gonna bet the rolls are just fine, SO seemed to like'em, right? And hell, I don't know about the rest of ya's but my planning never goes to a tee, that's why I make a few things, cause I *know* sure as shit somethins' gonna run amuck.I'd also wager some of the people might think they're gonna die...from eating so much they think they're gonna pop : )

I would try and get ALL the rock salt asap, it will play havoc on linoleum, hard wood floors and the carpet, wash well with hot water.


It does me good to see ya back where your heart belongs, safe and sound to boot.Enjoy the family and the holiday, these memories will get you through till your work assignment is done.


I can smell what your'e cookin from here! Oh Lord what a spread, my mind goes into overdrive thinking of what culinary delights you've got goin on today.

Take care everybody and have a Happy Thanksgiving.

-- capnfun (, November 22, 2001.

With the turkey now in the oven, I had some time before moving on to the final phase. I was lurking over at TB2000 when I found this Thanksgiving gem. house almost looks "normal".

Our Thanksgiving Plans

A slight change in plans:

Martha Stewart will not be dining with us this Thanksgiving. I'm telling you in advance, so don't act surprised. Since Ms. Stewart won't be coming, I've made a few small changes:

Our sidewalk will not be lined with homemade, paper bag luminaries. After a trial run, it was decided that no matter how cleverly done, rows of flaming lunch sacks do not have the desired welcoming effect.

The dining table will not be covered with expensive linens, fancy China or crystal goblets. If possible, we will use dishes that match and everyone will get a fork. Since this IS Thanksgiving, we will refrain from using the plastic Peter Rabbit plate and the Santa napkins from last Christmas.

Our centerpiece will not be the tower of fresh fruit and flowers that I promised. Instead we will be displaying a hedgehog-like decoration hand-crafted from the finest construction paper. The artist assures me it is a turkey.

We will be dining fashionably late. The children will entertain you while you wait. I'm sure they will be happy to share every choice comment I have made regarding Thanksgiving, pilgrims and the turkey hotline. Please remember that most of these comments were made at 5:00 AM upon discovering that the turkey was still hard enough to cut diamonds.

As accompaniment to the children's recital, I will play a recording of tribal drumming. If the children should mention that I don't own a recording of tribal drumming, or that tribal drumming sounds suspiciously like a frozen turkey in a clothes dryer, ignore them. They are lying.

We toyed with the idea of ringing a dainty silver bell to announce the start of our feast. In the end, we chose to keep our traditional method. We've also decided against a formal seating arrangement. When the smoke alarm sounds, please gather around the table and sit where you like. In the spirit of harmony, we will ask the children to sit at a separate table. In a separate room. Next door.

Now I know you have all seen pictures of one person carving a turkey in front of a crowd of appreciative onlookers. This will not be happening at our dinner. For safety reasons, the turkey will be carved in a private ceremony. I stress "private" meaning: Do not, under any circumstances, enter the kitchen to laugh at me. Do not send small, unsuspecting children to check on my progress. I have an electric knife. The turkey is unarmed. It stands to reason that I will eventually win. When I do, we will eat.

Before I forget, there is one last change. Instead of offering a choice between 12 different scrumptious desserts, we will be serving the traditional pumpkin pie, garnished with whipped cream and small fingerprints. You will still have a choice: take it or leave it.

Martha Stewart will not be dining with us this Thanksgiving. She probably won't come next year either.

I am thankful.

-- Anita (, November 22, 2001.

I took the 11 year old to her relitives house, got theire just in time to pile my plate high with all the ethnic goodies (and they have a lot of different ethnics interrelated in that family) ham, turkey, greens, corn on the cob, cornbread dressing, middle east and oriental dishes,deep dish apple pie, sweet potatoe pie, lots of good talk, left the kid and came home to nap, where I awoke to a turkey dinner made by my 20year old, her SO, and friend, I swear, they must have been blowing the evil weed in my face as I slept (they deny it with the giggles) because I woke up with the biggest case of the munchies and cleaned off a plate stuffed full of their specialties, turkey, dresing, corn, deep dish apple pie.
This is more food than I usually eat in a week.

I may just go from place to place to eat from this year on...never have totress over getting thefood right and no cleanup and I can pretend to be the excentric, yet harmless old auntie.

-- Cherri (, November 22, 2001.

Well, I guess this is as good a place as any to finish off the Thanksgiving day. The turkey came out beautiful, the corn-bread stuffing was a HUGE hit, the traditional herb dressing a lesser hit, the prime rib roast was almost completely taken home, except that I stopped the last person asking if SO and I might have just one piece to try ourselves.

The greens were thoroughly enjoyed by SO's SIL, who left with all of it, as well as the recipe. SO's daughter didn't like it because she could sense the vinegar in it. That would be rice wine vinegar. The two vegetarian girls showed, [just like I thought they would.] It seems that one is eating meat again, and the only purist couldn't eat the greens nor drink the egg-nog because the greens had bacon in it, and the egg-nog had eggs. Hardly anyone touched the bisquits, and absolutely NO ONE was willing to try the yam souffle that SO's daughter brought. I figure it all must have tasted pretty good or they wouldn't have raided the kitchen before leaving. We have a little pie left, one piece of the prime, scraps of turkey, some herb stuffing, and day-old bisquits.

I never got around to even tasting anything. After pretty much being on my feet for two days, I started to run out of steam before the giblet gravy was done. SO's daughter tried to finish that for me, but I don't think she reads too well. I finally opened a jar of turkey gravy and nuked it for a minute. She was relieved.

SO's grandson had an upset stomach. He never ate anything, so I'm not responsible. He started vomiting within half an hour of arriving, and heaved all over the frontroom rug once. SO wasn't happy about that. Finally, the crowd got down to SO's brother and his SIL, the niece that still lives at home with them, Lucky, and us. Lucky enjoyed the sweet potato with butter, turkey, cranberry sauce, and cauliflower/broccolli I served her, along with two small glasses of milk and two cups of coffee. When she finally got off the loveseat and came into the kitchen, I asked if she might need to use the bathroom. She said, "Well, I haven't gone in a while."

That's what started it all. I moved her into the bathroom off our bedroom, which is the one I always take her to, and she plunked down onto the commode [not by design]. It seems that her legs weren't working quite right today. I helped her up and she did the routine before using the toilet, and she said that she wasn't urinating and that maybe I should turn on some water. I got both bathroom sinks running and even took water in my cupped hands over to drop on her wrists. Heh. *I* had to pee before she did, so I left to use the other bathroom. When I returned, she'd still had no luck and didn't think she would, starting to rise.

It was then that I noticed the blood. Her underpants had a bit of blood on them, her slip, her dress, and as she rose, I could see that the toilet bowl was full of blood. I said, "Mom, where is this blood coming from?" She said, "My behind." She continued to get up and walk out of the toilet room into the bathroom. Blood was running down her legs, and dripping all over the rug. I went to the frontroom and told SO that I thought I should take her to the hospital because she was bleeding from the rectum.

SO's always tactful brother said, "What's wrong NOW?" SO told him, his SIL and niece rushed to get their food to take home, and we all started heading out. Concerned about the carpet, I asked SO's SIL if she could take a minute before leaving to get that blood up before it set. She said, "Do you have any rubber gloves?" I said, "No. Nevermind."

So, Lucky gets to spend the night at least in the hospital. They'd already run a bunch of checks before I left her [several hours after we brought her in], and right now they think it was maybe a hemmorhoid. They've still got her wired up for IV's and blood transfusions if necessary in both arms. There was SOME talk of doing a look-see up there with some kind of camera, but I don't know if they'll still do that or not.

All in all, it was a good day. I'm sure glad Lucky had this problem at MY house and not someone else's, so THAT's good. Also, if she DOES have a problem, I know she's in good hands. The dinner turned out good enough, SO and his one niece almost cleaned out the egg nog single-handedly, and even the Vegetarian got plenty to eat. MY daughter ate well, along with everyone else. In fact, she ate so much that she went into the spare room to take a nap. Heh. I'd thought she'd left when I wasn't looking. I have a great deal for which to be thankful, and I am.

-- Anita (, November 22, 2001.

Glad to hear of your successful dinner. You must be able to cook better than you let on. There was one think you forgot to report on. How was cracking the salt off the rib roast? Did you get at least one satisfying whack in?

Hope Lucky will not have any serious problems. My best to you and yours for the holiday season.

-- Jack Booted Thug (, November 23, 2001.

"At least I'm more relaxed now."

Sounds like that was the best part of your day. ;) Glad you survived the ordeal, Anita. Sounds like you have some good recipes for the future, too. You did good!

-- Pammy (clapping@for.Anita), November 23, 2001.

What a most excellent day!It was so odd having a Thanksgiving Day with the temps in the 80's, compared to years past when the avg was 50 or lower.This is great! 30 people having turkey and the trimmings out on the back lanai facing the golf course, with plenty of libations and celebration, football games being watched in the driveway.The happy couple had a nice wedding ceremony a couple hours prior to the meal and fun was had by all.Met some great people and some dudes to go fishin' with.I love this, I have found me a home, I do declare.This tropical holiday gig might be even better than I had envisioned, which surprises the hell out of moi.

I can't believe you never had any of that prime rib Anita, I was looking forward to hearing about how it compared to a standard cooked prime rib.Sorry the rolls didn't go over better, maybe they just ain't bread kind of people? Or do they (the rolls) suck that bad? Curious minds want to know.Hey, I'm having prime rib vicariously through you this year, humor me ; )

I hope it's only something minor with Lucky and I can't believe she didn't vocalize the discomfort prior to you finding out about it, those are a pain in the....well you know.

-- capnfun (, November 23, 2001.

Sounds like that was the best part of your day. ;)

Heh. Yeah, it was. [Don't tell the blue-hairs, though, ok?]

Regarding the rock-salt roast, JBT, the salt pretty much slithered off the roast overnight or melted away or something, at least in several places. It was basically just a messy job of using a paper towel to wipe the rock-salt off the roast. As curious as I am/was about whether the prime would taste better or worse than more traditional methods, the whole affair was simply too messy for my tastes. Of course with the internal temp already at 170, it was already too done for my tastes. I prefer the rarer stuff in beef, but SO and the guests prefer the more well-done stuff, so they loved it.

While we have a pretty big table and lots of counter space, there were too many people to seat at the table alone, so I laid the food all around the kitchen and folks started digging in pretty much as soon as they arrived. Lucky was seated in the frontroom, so I set up a tray table for her and made her a plate after I'd responded to all the requests for a drink, a serving spoon, etc. My experience has shown that serving a big dinner for a number of people never gives me time to eat. I'm the waitress, as well as the cook, and all I really wanted to do was sit down, but every time I did, someone would ask for something else.

SO's brother is one of those grumpy people. He has a big heart, but he and SO are complete opposites in personality. Most folks just accept him for who he is, but when he throws a jab my way, I throw one right back at him. His punishment was to carve the turkey. He did bring a video of one of his three daughters in a TV show called "Cheaters". We watched and laughed as Muriel played the "other woman." Two of his daughters are absolutely beautiful, tall, slim, and get modeling or actressing jobs on occasion. Muriel is now eating meat again, but Michelle still isn't. The third daughter looks more like him. [heh] Lucky thought that Muriel was my second daughter. She asked about the tall girls in the emergency room and when I said they were Ron's daughters, she said, "Why wasn't Birgit there?" I said, "She lives in Illinois now, mom."

Capn, it sounds like those yanks you've been complainin' about aren't such bad folks at all. There's ALWAYS a period of adjustment in a move [especially from one culture to another], but once folks realize you're friendly, they tend to welcome you with open arms.

I think I'll just relax today, drink some beer, lay around, play on the internet, etc., at least until I find out whether Lucky will be ready to go home today or another day. I've gotta say that those folks at the hospital last night were the BEST. They all got a hoot out of Lucky and took the time to ask about any possible discomfort. I felt like I was in the way as people moved in and out with this or that function to be performed on her. She kept insisting that she'd been healthy all her life. One doctor said, "I think you still are." Maybe I over-reacted in taking her to the hospital. I dunno.

-- Anita (, November 23, 2001.

Anita, You did good. You also did the right thing to take her to the ER. It is always best to have them checked uot when they are so fragile.

I think I'm going to go time everyones dinner times next year so I can show up, eat nap and hit another place. Too many years of fixing food at family meals. But maybe next year I will try to make a dinner myself. Sounds like a lot of work though.

-- Cherri (, November 23, 2001.

Cherri: In retrospect, making the dinner wasn't all that much work. I did feel a little stupid when SO's daughter said she'd found canned greens that tasted pretty much like the ones that require all the work. I wanted the one-time adventure of making them from scratch. It isn't like I ever serve SO anything that his mother made when he was a kid. [Heh. Turns out that he no longer wants to TOUCH anything his mother made when he was a kid, nor does his brother.]

Everyone loved the baked macaroni and cheese, and it wasn't a lot of work. Corn bread is easy. I made a big pan of it just for the stuffing, which wasn't hard either. Lots of stuff can be made a day or two before, also. I made the pies the day before and simply set them on the washing machine. I didn't even cover them. I tasted both yesterday [one of the few remaining items from the dinner], and they were GREAT.

Yesterday, SO said, "This is ironic. With all the food we bought, we have no meat for tonight." I kindof like real turkey sandwiches, myself, versus that sliced stuff at the deli. I didn't get any. Oh well.

I'm not sorry I took Lucky to the ER. She's still in the hospital. I don't think she's urinated or defecated yet, and I don't think they'll release her until they see how that comes out. Yesterday she was scheduled for a GI, and then a specialist was going to see her. They'd asked me if there was any stool present in the blood she passed, and I said, "No", but now that I think about it, I didn't put a stick in the toilet and fish around. I just saw enough blood in the toilet to make a dark red color and saw the fresh blood running down her legs. I want to get this malady [whatever it is] cleared up while she's in good hands. It's not like she'd ever tell anyone had this happened when she was alone.

Regarding future dinners, I dunno. I still have Lucky to consider, and some years I've simply made a few cornish hens, had her and my daughter to dinner, knowing that my daughter would receive a feast to die for at her boyfriend's Aunt's house. SO was then free to eat wherever his family met. This kept me away from Grumpy, which suited me just fine. We mix like oil and water.

-- Anita (, November 24, 2001.

Glad to hear everything come out OK, Anita. I knew ya could do it! Sounds like ya'll had a great meal...sigh..and I had to endure another one of my sister-in-laws frozen, out of a can, prepackaged or dehydrated meals..ugh!....The only thing that might be fresh is the turkey and I'm not so sure about that.

We've been going there for about four or five years now and I can't take it much longer. I was so upset when I heard a couple of my other siblings were begging off dinner this year and would visit after. I was like..yaaaa rrriiiigggghhhhhttttt...they're leaving me and my family to eat the dust..LOL!!! You're not gonna believe what she serves that passes as Thanksgiving Dinner. Well, turkey of course..dry, dry, dry.. Stuffing, some kind of bread cubes with apples and raisins (I have no idea what it tastes like, cause I refuse to try it). Betty Crocker augratin potatoes, frozen corn, frozen butternut squash, which she adds a ton of nutmeg to and it turns a brown color and closely resembles baby shit (I won't eat that either). Canned green beans (I would have had some of those, but they were down the other end of the table and I didn't see them till we were cleaning up)...nothing can get passed around the table cause she uses these huge silver chafing dishes that weigh a ton and get hotter than hell, so ya can't even pick the suckers up...OH..and the silver spoons get really hot too..what a trip! I've always wondered what exactally it was that she put in the gravy to give it that most unusual taste..I got my answer this year when I spied her with a jar of Guldens mustard..plop..half a jar into the gravy...yummy..heh!

Anyway, the worst part of enduring the Thanksgiving meal at her house all these years, was the "Instant Mashed Potatoes", don't get me wrong, I'm not a prude, there's nothing wrong with "instant", but just not on Thanksgiving, please. So, this year I did an end run on her...I called (on a dare from my oldest daughter) the night before and told her I was bringing the usual veggie dip and veggies, and the shrimp dip and chips....and would you mind ever so much if I brought some mashed potatoes???...cause the girls don't like instant..LOL...I blamed it on my kids..I'm sooooo ashamed..NOT!! She was very nice about it and said, "sure, Peg, whatever you want"...I shoulda brought the whole dinner..heh. My brother didn't let me live it down all day..oh, well...but those potatoes sure went over pretty well.[g]

I love my sister-in-law...she just can't cook is all!

I hope everything turns out alright for Lucky...keep us posted :)

-- Peg (m@de. my own dinner yesterday), November 24, 2001.

Instant mashed potatos? I would have spit them out, Peg. I HATE them, although I HAVE found the flakes useful for coating baked pork, etc. SO's daughter didn't think I'd made enough mashed potatos [SO had peeled and I'd cooked and mashed four huge potatos]. She said, "I'll cook a few more." She then chopped them, put them into water to boil, and never took them out. The demand for mashed potatos was sketchy. Of course they cleaned out the bowl on the after-dinner raid, but I suspect that SO threw out the two big taters that had been cooked and left. I still have two more peeled potatos that I'd put into the frig. We won't have them tonight. Tonight is sloppy joes and more of that baked macaroni and cheese stuff I baked yesterday. It was all gone, but I still have cream, milk, shredded cheese and noodles.

I don't know what's going on with Lucky. They don't tell me much, and she doesn't think she's had ANY tests so far. [I would think that a GI would be a big one, but she's not the best one to ask.] Anyway, it looks like she'll be there another day at least.

-- Anita (, November 24, 2001.

Anita, the camera thingy is called endoscopy. My mom had it done twice. The first time, they were able to see tiny polyps and removed them right then and there. The second time, they were going even further up the colon and her blood pressure dropped like a rock, so they stopped, without ever finding anything. She's been fine since, so I sorta wonder why they had to look a second time.

They consider it a 'less invasive procedure' (less invasive than what, is what I wonder??..LOL)'s done with a mild anesthetic.

No matter how ya slice it...if it's going up there it's invasive...even the ol' lower GI.

Wishing your Lucky the best! :)

-- Peg (, November 24, 2001.


They consider it a 'less invasive procedure' (less invasive than what, is what I wonder??..LOL)..

They probably mean less invasive than a sigmoidoscopy or a full colonscope. Since colon cancer runs rampantly throughout my family, I've had both. They never sedated me for either, although I kindof wish they had. Before my first colonscope, they said, "Anita, is your blood pressure usually 191?" I said, "No. I'm simply scared." Having my blood pressure drop like a rock would have been a good thing.

-- Anita (, November 25, 2001.

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