Pentagon: 2 Killed in Pakistan Crash

The Associated Press Friday, Oct. 19, 2001; 10:35 p.m. EDT

WASHINGTON –– A helicopter supporting the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan crashed Friday in neighboring Pakistan, killing two people, the Pentagon said.

A brief Pentagon statement said the helicopter crash was an accident. The two people who were killed were not immediately identified.

The Pentagon did not say whether the accident was related to a commando operation in southern Afghanistan involving about 100 special operations forces.

The United States has put troops and helicopters at two bases inside Pakistan since the beginning of fighting in Afganistan.

-- (learn to fly @ before. attacking), October 20, 2001

Answers

The score is really 2 to 0 Taliban, but since we killed 2 of our own for them, this puts us at -2.

I don't think we had better try any more of these attacks until we are better prepared, or at least until they learn how to fly the choppers. I'd hate to think what would happen if we had actually confronted the enemy.

-- Stormin Norman (not@lookin.good), October 20, 2001.

Well you (and I) don't know what we achieved in the raid. Maybe we got some info. Maybe we kidnapped some Talibans.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 20, 2001.

Quite obvious that neither one of you two needle dick punks has ever spent a second in the military. This was an aviation accident that occurred in Pakistan and had nothing to do with the Taliban. Shit happens when men and women are at war, fighting for your freedom. In your cases, it makes me puke to think these brave warriors gave their lives to protect motherfucking scum like you. Go hide somewhere you assholes before you get real hurt.

-- Head (for@the.hills), October 20, 2001.

Not you Lars.

-- Head (for@the.hills), October 20, 2001.

"This was an aviation accident that occurred in Pakistan and had nothing to do with the Taliban."

This happened precisely during the time period when our helicopters were carrying our special forces back and forth between Pakistan and the intended target area in Afghanistan. Coincidence? Maybe, but I think not. It's just the first example of how counterproductive our ground force strategy will be, accomplishing nothing but our own self-destruction. The gung-ho macho mental midgets think this is all really cool stuff, but in the long run it's pretty fucking dumb. Not unlike a bunch of 6 year-old boys playing G.I. Joe, and then someone accidentally hits one of their friends in the eye with a rock.

-- LOL (some boys @ never. grow up), October 20, 2001.

Saturday October 20 02:56 PM EDT

Strike by Army Rangers Masked Raid by Elite Unit, Official Says

By ERIC SCHMITT and THOM SHANKER The New York Times

The raid into southern Afghanistan overnight Friday attacked Taliban military targets and masked a smaller mission to uncover Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders.

WASHINGTON, Oct. 20 The Army airborne raid into southern Afghanistan overnight Friday attacked Taliban military targets and masked a smaller and even stealthier mission by elite commandos to uncover Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders, including their location and movements, a Defense Department official said today.

The overt goal of the airborne assault, executed in a hit-and-run strike over several hours by more than 100 Army Rangers and other Special Forces, was to destroy underground bunkers, arms storage sites and air defense locations in the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar, a Defense Department official said today. Operations were carried out at more than one location there, the official said.

But the covert action aimed at the Taliban leadership was shrouded from view. It may still be under way or could resume soon, spurred by intelligence gathered from the overnight raid or in anticipation of movement or other responses by the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the aftermath of the attacks, the official said.

Army Rangers have in the past operated in tandem with the Army's secret counterterrorist unit, Delta Force. For example, the Rangers, the service's elite infantry, can create a flashy diversion so small Delta teams can carry out their mission. Or they can execute a more forceful entry than the Delta commandos could do themselves given their small numbers.

Secretary General Kofi Annan has said he believes that he has weeks, not years, to help pull together a unified Afghan authority that could become a transitional government, bolstered by a huge committment of aid and expertise from the United Nations and member countries.

"Something is going to happen very suddenly and we won't have time to negotiate," said Fred Eckhard, the United Nations spokesman. "Unlike Cambodia, we don't have years to negotiate a settlement among the warring parties, we could only have weeks."

As LL said not long ago----- TaliBOOM

Bwahahahahahaha!

-- (Bad guys@go.boom), October 20, 2001.

LOL, nice propaganda. Make them think we have "covert" actions going on, yeah that's the ticket! Too bad they are not dumb. If you are in Afghanistan and your name is not Abdul, your throat will be cut. If you refuse to tell them your name, they can tell by the way you smell. The raghead smell is impossible to fake, Americans are too clean.

-- (covertly@accomplished.nothing), October 20, 2001.

Will you listen to this fucking idiot? What part of ‘covert’ do you not understand dipshit? You think our special ops people are throwing towels on their heads and trying to mix in at the Taliban Hilton? Gawd, you are one dumb motherfucker.

-- Head (for@the.hills), October 20, 2001.

LMAO!! You think our troops can HIDE in Afghanistan??!! Bwaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaah aaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaah aaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaahaaaahaaahaaahaahaha!!!

You are even dumber than the sneaky bastards who write this propaganda had hoped you were!!

Those ragheads got every square inch covered, waiting like snakes to pounce upon their prey. Why do you think our idiot troops got back in the helicopter and when running away with their tail between their legs?? They were seconds away from getting their throats cut as soon as they landed!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!! You are gullible, D-U-M-B DUMB, and very gullible!

-- (gaaaawd@you're.dumb), October 20, 2001.

Saturday October 20 4:11 PM ET

Taliban: Fighters Drove Off US Raid

By KATHY GANNON and AMIR SHAH, Associated Press Writers

KABUL, Afghanistan (news - web sites) (AP) - The ruling Taliban branded America's first commando strikes of the war against terrorism a failure Saturday, and a senior militia commander said Americans are too soft for a ground war in Afghanistan.

The United Nations (news - web sites), meanwhile, said thousands of civilians are trapped in southern Afghanistan after Pakistan reimposed border controls on refugees. U.N. officials also warned of a breakdown in law and order that is threatening what's left of international humanitarian missions in Afghanistan.

Kabul residents heard what they thought was the whirr of helicopters late Saturday but could not tell whether another attack was under way. Barrages of anti-aircraft fire erupted afterward.

The Taliban's official Bakhtar news agency said four helicopters landed in Kohi Baba, 20 miles northwest of the southern city of Kandahar, but found the camp deserted.

``The American air operation in Afghanistan has made no gain, and the helicopter operation has failed,'' Bakhtar said.

In a clear appeal to the global Islamic community, a senior Taliban leader, Mullah Amir Khan Muttaqi, told al-Jazeera TV of Qatar that Taliban fighters drove off the Americans and ``this commando attack has failed.''

``God willing,'' he added, ``all their aggressive planes will fail.''

Other Taliban figures also sought to project an image of strength.

In an interview with the Pakistani newspaper The News, Mullah Jalaluddin Haqqani, a major Taliban commander in the south, said the Americans could not withstand the rigors of a ground war in Afghanistan because ``they are creatures of comfort.''

``We are eagerly awaiting the American troops to land on our soil, where we will deal with them in our own way,'' Haqqani said. In other words, we will slit their throats where they stand. ``The Americans will not be able to sustain the harsh conditions that await them.''

An aide to Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, Talat Masoud, told Germany's Die Welt newspaper that the attacks on Afghanistan will probably last until at least March or April.

President Bush (news - web sites) launched the air campaign Oct. 7 after the Taliban repeatedly refused to hand over Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), the main suspect in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States.

Despite defiant statements from Taliban leaders, tens of thousands of Afghans were trying to escape the bombings, in some cases selling all their possessions to pay for transport and for smugglers to slip them into Pakistan and other neighboring countries.

An estimated 5,000 Afghans entered Pakistan on Saturday at one border crossing alone - Chaman - and the U.N. refugee agency said up to 10,000 more were believed stranded without proper travel documents near the Afghan side of the border.

U.N. officials said nearly the entire population of Kandahar - an estimated 500,000 - had fled the Taliban home city, which has been bombarded for nearly two weeks.

``A lot of people are injured in Kandahar,'' said a bandaged man crossing at Chaman, who identified himself only as Abdullah. ``The Taliban are off someplace safe - it is the ordinary people who are suffering.''

-- U.S. losing "big time" (killing civilians @ is not. a victory), October 20, 2001.

....according to the taliban

-- (more@propaganda.), October 20, 2001.

Saturday October 20 02:56 PM EDT

Strike by Army Rangers Masked Raid by Elite Unit, Official Says By ERIC SCHMITT and THOM SHANKER The New York Times The raid into southern Afghanistan overnight Friday attacked Taliban military targets and masked a smaller mission to uncover Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders.

WASHINGTON, Oct. 20 The Army airborne raid into southern Afghanistan overnight Friday attacked Taliban military targets and masked a smaller and even stealthier mission by elite commandos to uncover Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders, including their location and movements, a Defense Department official said today.

The overt goal of the airborne assault, executed in a hit-and-run strike over several hours by more than 100 Army Rangers and other Special Forces, was to destroy underground bunkers, arms storage sites and air defense locations in the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar, a Defense Department official said today. Operations were carried out at more than one location there, the official said.

But the covert action aimed at the Taliban leadership was shrouded from view. It may still be under way or could resume soon, spurred by intelligence gathered from the overnight raid or in anticipation of movement or other responses by the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the aftermath of the attacks, the official said.

Army Rangers have in the past operated in tandem with the Army's secret counterterrorist unit, Delta Force. For example, the Rangers, the service's elite infantry, can create a flashy diversion so small Delta teams can carry out their mission. Or they can execute a more forceful entry than the Delta commandos could do themselves given their small numbers.

As the war on terrorism entered a new and dangerous ground phase, Pentagon officials this morning would not say whether the overnight mission had met its goals, and released only sketchy details.

President Bush, speaking from an economic summit gathering in Shanghai, hinted at the true aim of the mission. "We are destroying terrorist hideaways," he said. "We are slowly but surely encircling the terrorists so that we can bring them to justice."

Mr. Bush said that he mourned the loss of two servicemen killed in a helicopter accident related to the mission.

"There will be moments of sacrifice," the president said late this morning, as he was about to begin a meeting with the Japanese prime minister, Junichiro Koizumi. "We've seen two such examples today."

The president held a secure video-teleconference this morning with Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, who was at his ranch in Taos, N.M., and with Gen. Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Gen. Peter Pace, the vice chairman of the joint chiefs, participating from Washington.

Congressional leaders who were briefed by administration officials on the operation expressed support for the mission. "The military campaign has proceeded just as it should," Senator Tom Daschle of South Dakota, the majority leader, said through a spokesman. "It's not an assault on Islam or the Afghan people, but on terrorists and those who harbor them."

Airstrikes resumed over Afghanistan today, as B-1 and B-52 bombers and carrier-based FA-18's and F-14's dropped laser-guided and satellite-guided bombs during daytime raids over Kabul, the Afghan capital, Kandahar and Herat. "It's the same level as it's been the past few days robust," said Rear Adm. Craig R. Quigley, a Pentagon spokesman.

The Pentagon said that the two American servicemen killed in a supporting rescue mission had not crossed into Afghanistan. Defense officials said today that at least one other person aboard the helicopter was injured in the accident.

They declined to say whether there were any American casualties in the commando raid, although all helicopters involved in the raid reported safely back to the carrier Kitty Hawk in the Arabian Sea.

A senior Defense Department official denied Taliban reports that the helicopter had been shot down. Military and Pakistani officials said the aircraft crashed while landing at the Dalbandin air base in Pakistan, about 60 miles from the Afghan border.

The crash was caused by "a brown-out," the Defense Department official said, and cited initial reports describing a huge cloud of dust kicked up by the wash of the rotor blades upon landing, which apparently disoriented the pilot or interfered with the equipment.

One officer said the helicopter that crashed was an Army Blackhawk, the main heavily armed troop carrier for all Army forces. The Special Forces use a specially equipped version that provides better capabilities at night and can be refueled in the air.

The accident brings to three the number of American troops killed since the United States-led military campaign began two weeks ago with airstrikes aimed at Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect in the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, and the government that is protecting him. A master sergeant was killed last week in a forklift accident while constructing an air strip in the Gulf state of Qatar.

Pakistan agreed today to allow American forces to use a fourth base, Shamsi, located near the convergence of the borders of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. The base was built for wealthy Saudi sheiks who indulged in world-class falconry there.

The United States is already using bases in Pasni, Jacobabad and Dalbandin for search-and-rescue missions and as staging areas for Special Forces.

The leader of the opposition Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, Burhanuddin Rabbani, said today that he hoped for new assistance from the United States both along Afghanistan's northern borders and near Kabul. Reuters quoted him as saying that the resistance was "fighting well" in the north, where there has been an ebb-and-flow battle around the airport outside Mazar-i-Sharif, a strategic crossroads near Uzbekistan.

The United States has troops and aircraft stationed in Uzbekistan, and resistance forces have said that a few Special Forces troops are working with the rebel armies in the area.

"Now our commanders need to prepare and decide whether to take action in Kabul," Mr. Rabbani said. North of Kabul, the resistance faces dug- in Taliban troops whose front lines so far have been largely spared from American bombing.

At a briefing here today, Lakhdar Brahimi, the United Nations special representative for Afghanistan, discussed the future of Afghanistian in the event the Taliban were deposed. He spoke out against the idea of sending a United Nations peacekeeping force or any other armed foreign force to govern Afghanistan once the current military campaign ends.

"The Afghans wouldn't look fondly on foreigners with guns ruling them," Mr. Brahimi said.

Instead, he said, he reiterated in discussions with American officials here on Friday that the best solution would be for the United Nations to assist in negotiations with the warring parties to put together a council of national unity to govern the country.

He said that while the United Nations was committed to the rehabilitation, reconstruction and development of Afghanistan, it was "too early to say what formula would be suitable" for an international presence after the war ended.

Secretary General Kofi Annan has said he believes that he has weeks, not years, to help pull together a unified Afghan authority that could become a transitional government, bolstered by a huge committment of aid and expertise from the United Nations and member countries.

"Something is going to happen very suddenly and we won't have time to negotiate," said Fred Eckhard, the United Nations spokesman. "Unlike Cambodia, we don't have years to negotiate a settlement among the warring parties, we could only have weeks."

Mr. Brahimi said no group should be excluded from an Afghan transitional authority, especially since the current armed factions did not represent the vast majority of Afghan people.

"The 25 million Afghans have been hostage to these factions that don't represent more than 50,000, 60,000 maybe 70,000 people," he said.

Mr. Brahimi's top priority for the moment is getting food aid into the country in the next several weeks, before winter sets in and Muslim holy days of Ramadan begin.

"I think there are millions at risk not because of the bombing campaign but because of the drought and civil war," he said.

He also told the American officials in private meetings that the immediate problem for the humanitarianrelief effort is money. The United Nations has received only 10 percent of the $600 million pledged by countries for food relief to Afghanistan. In some instances, the U.N. has been unable to write the necessary checks for food and logistics expenses.

-- (check@this.), October 20, 2001.

So this is why the media was alerted and ran their mouths. They hadda plan! I don't want to see innocent people die, or anyone for that matter but....COOL strategy

-- (mm@hmm.), October 20, 2001.

Sorry, there was no ingenious plan, just wishful thinking. Dubya couldn't wait to tell everyone that we were attacking on the ground, it makes him feel macho since he is the head honcho. But when he found out that our green berets got scared, turned tail and ran, he made up the story that it was just a decoy for other "covert" forces. A short while later, the Pentagon started telling the media that this was a new strategy called the "hit and run" method. LMAO! If any covert forces tried to go in they would have got scared too and cried for their mommies to come pick them up.

-- heee hee hee (americans@big.sissies), October 20, 2001.

The new American "hit and run" strategy!

This is the big sissy American way of saying they are too chicken to stay here and fight us!

ROTFLMAO!!

-- Osama @ Yo. Mama (BWAAAA@HAAAA.HAAAA!), October 20, 2001.

Fact --- special forces and covert ops were taking place on the ground in Afghanistan within 1 week of the WTC attacks. The only thing that's going to make this take another few weeks is getting all the factions to agree to the provisional government. Don't know if we'll get Osama, but we will eliminate the Taliban. Sooner rather than later. Hee hee. Don't matter to me if you believe this or not. Hmmm...senior Taliban leader, Mullah Amir Khan Muttaqi telling their official propanda outlet, al-Jazeera TV, that the mission was a failure, huh? Same guy who announced 4 weeks ago that they had captured some of our special forces and would be sending pictures SOON...huh? Same one who said 2 weeks ago that their anti-aircraft missiles had shot down one of our planes and killed the pilot when it turned out to be an UNMANNED drone, huh? THAT Amir Khan Muttaqi? Of course, he must be telling the truth this time....HAHAHAHAHAHA! You are such a stooopid troll for the Taliban propaganda.

-- (*@#9.com), October 20, 2001.

FACT; ==========mever mind

-- (who c@res.mmuch), October 20, 2001.

New york Times October 21, 2001

MILITARY ANALYSIS

U.S. Got a Chance to Show It Learned Lessons of the Past

By MICHAEL R. GORDON

WASHINGTON, Oct. 20 — The United States commando raid in Afghanistan reflected the start of a new, fast paced and, the military hopes, determining stage of the war.

The helicopter raid against the compound of the Taliban's top leader and an assault by paratroops on a remote airfield were just the beginning of more to come. This new phase of the conflict, the Pentagon has warned, may well be drawn out and will not end until the Qaeda network of terrorists is destroyed and the Taliban leaders who shelter it are toppled.

But the individual operations by American commando teams will be short and intense like Friday's assault — at least for now. In essence, the United States is planning a series of stinging jabs to unhinge its enemy, not a single knockout blow.

The last time the United States mounted a large-scale commando raid was in 1993 in Somalia, and it came at a huge cost. The Delta force swooped into Mogadishu, sliding down on ropes attached to their helicopters, to capture two lieutenants of a Somali warlord.

But the Somalis, who had become accustomed to the American tactics, shot down a Black Hawk helicopter with a rocket-propelled grenade, causing a vicious firefight. Eighteen Americans were killed and scores more wounded in the exchange, which led to the American withdraw from that African nation and later discouraged the United States from using force in the Balkans.

Friday's mission in Afghanistan gave the American military a chance not only to take on the Taliban and Al Qaeda, but also to demonstrate that it had absorbed the lesson of eight years ago.

This time, the American military carried out two assaults: one at the compound of the Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, that involved commandos from the Kitty Hawk who flew in on helicopters, and the other at an airfield. Military planners had deliberately refrained from bombing the compound so that they could retrieve intelligence information — including documents — and, they hoped, to capture some of the Taliban leaders themselves.

At the same time, Army Ranger paratroopers took the airfield, a mission they are well trained to perform. The Rangers are believed to have taken off from Oman.

Seizing the airfield served several purposes. It not only enabled American troops to scour it for intelligence and weapons caches, but it also gave the commandos a way to rush more troops in and casualties out in case the raid at Mullah Omar's compound ran into trouble.

In Somalia, the Delta force lacked a credible plan to get out in case the operation went awry, and the force and the soldiers who rushed to its aid paid the price.

But in Afghanistan, there were other reasons for seizing the airfield. It enabled the military to get a good look at it in case the Pentagon wants to use it for future operations, a Pentagon official said. British military officials have spoken openly about the possibility of establishing a forward base in Afghanistan for some commando missions.

It also showed the Taliban and Al Qaeda that the United States military can land and carry out operations on the Taliban's home turf. That bit of psychological pressure was also a statement to other terrorists and a confidence-builder for American forces, who may be taking on more difficult missions.

The United States military, however, was not just trying to exorcise the ghosts of Somalia in devising its raids in Afghanistan. It has also learned from the painful lessons of the Soviet Union's defeat in the quagmire of Afghanistan, where mujahedeen guerrillas supported by Pakistan, the United States and the Arab world killed 15,000 Soviet troops, wounded hundreds of thousands more and brought the stumbling superpower to its knees.

As a result, the United States is conducting a decidedly different war in Afghanistan. Its primary instrument is not a Soviet-style motorized rifle division, and it is not trying to occupy Afghanistan. The new American weapon is teams of commandos, who whisk in to their objective but who do not linger in the country.

Under the Pentagon strategy, the American military, not Al Qaeda or the Taliban, will maintain the initiative.

American commanders will try to hold casualties to a minimum not by avoiding close combat, but by surprising and outpacing the enemy.

The concept of this military operation is aptly captured in the Joint Chiefs of Staff's "Doctrine for Joint Operations," which was published the day before the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

"Seize initiative," the manual instructs. By rapid strikes and exploitation of the adversary's weakness, it says, American forces can weaken the enemy until he cannot counterattack or even defend himself, a condition the manual calls "defensive culmination."

Translating those military concepts into a sound battle plan is the difficult part. The veil of secrecy that surrounds the Friday night operation makes it hard to assess fully, despite the Pentagon's claims of success.

Even if it was a brilliant operation, it is expected to be the first of many potentially risky raids. One danger is that the Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters will become accustomed to the new style of warfare and improve their defenses. That suggests that the American military will need to vary its tactics for carrying out hit- and-run raids in the weeks ahead.

Today, the military did its best to keep the heat on. Its primary instrument during the day was not ground troops but air raids, part of its continuing and classic air campaign. B-1 and B-52 bombers conducted strikes, as did warplanes from Navy aircraft carriers off the coast of Pakistan.

The airstrikes are expected to be a constant feature of the American operation and will continue relentlessly around the clock even as special forces come and go unpredictably.

The aim is to give the Taliban and Al Qaeda no respite. Another goal is to drive their leaders out of their bunkers so that as they search for new sanctuaries, they can be attacked or captured.

Because they are relatively few in number, the American commandos must be used selectively. They cannot be asked to spend their bullets or risk their lives on secondary objectives. In essence, they trade off size and firepower in exchange for something even more valuable: the ability to maneuver on the enemy's home ground and to strike where the foe is thought to be most vulnerable.

Even so, there can be pitfalls with even the best-planned military operation. That was shown on Friday when two Army soldiers were killed and several injured after the operation seemed to be over. They were in a search-and-rescue helicopter that never flew over Afghanistan and crashed in Pakistan when dust was kicked up its rotor blades.

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-- (Michael R Gordon@NY.Times), October 20, 2001.

Assholes here think it's cute to denigrate our military and call them cowards. Be nice to meet up with some of these faggots sometime.

-- libs are idiots (moreinterpretation@ugly.com), October 21, 2001.

We have some bright guys and gals in the military. I would hope that, in designing a deception for the Taliban's consumption, they would play it right at the Taliban's assumptions about the US military and their delusions about their own strengths and prowess.

They think we are cowardly and they are brave. If a cover operation were launched, I'd make it fit the general MO of Special Operations but noisier than necessary - and I'd make it a conspicuous failure with the Spec Ops forces pulling back too soon before effectively challenged. This would save lives among the operatives giving cover and tend to make the Taliban think they have our measure.

I expect we have some planners who can grasp this kind of operation - and let's hope and pray we have some brass who can appreciate such planning.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), October 21, 2001.

By golly, you're right Nipper! Yeah, yeah, that's what I've been trying to tell these damn reporters! We had this all PLANNED! We made it look like we were sissies on purpose, jus so's them towelheads would misunderestimate us next time we comes around. These news reporters just don't understand my new "hit and run" strategy, they think we're afraid to go in there and fight them camel jockeys. Heck, we got no reason to be afraid, just cuz they carved up a lot of Russians a few years ago, heh-heh, yuk, yuk, yuk. Believe me, we had this all PLAAAANNNED! Way aheada time, yep, that's right.

-- Dubya (hit and run @ my. new strategy), October 21, 2001.

"Dubya", the Soviet army in Afghanistan was an occupying force, attempting to break local resistance. The Afghans would not be broken. As the Soviet forces lost their belief that the war was winnable, or that the objectives were worth dying for, they lost effectiveness, just as ours did in Vietnam.

We will, I trust, not present that kind of a target. We aren't in there to occupy Afghanistan, and we won't be pumping 500,000 ground troops into the situation in a vain effort to prop up whatever local government we end up backing. Our objectives are a lot more limited.

It is not a coincidence that the Afghans got a big weapons-technology boost from the USA against the Soviets, just as the Vietnamese did against the USA. It was the Cold War and that was SOP. These days the Taliban must go out and buy any advanced weaponry they covet. They aren't very flush with cash these days.

The key to this operation will be to not be seen as the enemy of the Afghan people by the Islamic world in general. That will be some trick, if the administration pulls it off. like it or not, the best way to pull it off is to create a Palestinian state.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), October 21, 2001.

"The key to this operation will be to not be seen as the enemy of the Afghan people by the Islamic world in general."

LOL! It's a little late for that!

Don't you read the news?

-- (The U.S. @ is. history), October 21, 2001.

Relatives cover the bodies of four brothers, who along with their mother and three other family members were killed in the Afghan capital during U.S. air strikes, October 21, 2001. Fourteen more civilians were wounded during the attack on the residential area of Khair Khana to the north of Kabul, witnesses said. Afghanistan's ruling Taliban talked defiance on Sunday as U.S. war planes began a third week of strikes by bombing the capital in blistering raids that officials said killed 18 civilians and wounded 23.

-- (dubya@mass.murderer), October 21, 2001.

Relatives cover the bodies of four brothers, who along with their mother and three other family members were killed in the Afghan capital during U.S. air strikes, October 21, 2001. Fourteen more civilians were wounded during the attack on the residential area of Khair Khana to the north of Kabul, witnesses said. Afghanistan's ruling Taliban talked defiance on Sunday as U.S. war planes began a third week of strikes by bombing the capital in blistering raids that officials said killed 18 civilians and wounded 23.

-- (war@on.innocents), October 21, 2001.

Go fuck yourself pissant. I hope our bombs get bigger and more numerous.

We bombed the shit out of Dresden and Tokyo too, and Afghanistan will learn the same lessons.

-- libs are idiots (moreinterpretation@ugly.com), October 22, 2001.

Fuck all of those towel heads! We lost 6000 ‘innocents’ at the WTC, the Pentagon, and that crash in PA. We have a long way to go to catch- up with the body count. You want to post emotional pictures? Show the containers of human pulp that they are dragging out of ground zero on a daily basis. The Taliban have been slaughtering their own people for over 4 years and if a few more have to die in order to save the masses, then so be it. You liberal pacifists are just plain traitors for not focusing on the pain and suffering of your OWN countrymen, instead of a handful of Afghan’s that have a natural life span of 13 ½ years.

-- Worry (about@American's.first), October 22, 2001.

hey dreamer posting pictures

Do you think it beyond the Taliban to kill their own people and then take pictures saying we did it? Are you that much of an idiot?

Where ARE the pictures of the dead Americans?

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), October 22, 2001.

2 wrongs never make a right.

-- kenneth starr (never, never, never, never @ shame, shame. shame), October 22, 2001.

Afghan will die

-- Harry George (Bigpapa0075@aol.com), January 17, 2002.

Afghanistan News

-- 1234 (123@123.123), March 17, 2002.

btw Americans stink worse than Dogs and pigs, actually most americans ARE worse than dogs and Pigs

-- 1212 (112@121.12), March 19, 2002.