I'm a lurker for the past few days, but haven't seen this. Was reported Saturday, Oct. 13 in The Sault Star newspaper, Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada, across the river from Sault, Michigan. Sorry, don't have the article, I was just visiting when I read it.

Summary: The weekend of October 6, two or three (can't remember which) men of Middle Eastern descent seen video taping the infrastructure of the US locks system that is used between Lake Superior and Lake Huron. Tourists usually take photos of the freighters going through the locks, but not the locks themselves. These men were not detained by the Parks Police, nor were the police called. The license plate number was taken, and given to the FBI. It was later determined the car was registered to someone in Dearborn, MI, a suburb of Detroit. Article said FBI is investigating.

I hope it's ok to post this, in this fashion. I felt it was important as: 1. It hadn't yet appearred here (that I know of). 2. The Great Lakes shipping lanes are of great importance to North America, and have greater traffic than either the Suez or Panama canals. 3. The Sault Ste. Marie locks system has always been a war target, and was heavily protected during WW2.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

Answers

rb, absolutely, please post, but also include a link where one is available.

Admirable to be taking down license plates, but surely more folks have videocams with them these days.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

Thanks, Brooks. I had no link available, good old hard copy newsprint. I tried their website this morning, but they'd already cleared it out to make way for today's news, and they don't archive them. Wish I'd cut out the article.

My thanks to all here posting. This means I don't need to subject my little ones to the news. Too young to be scared, but you never know.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

thanks rb.

keep an eye out for follow ups, eh? ;)

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

Barefoot, will do.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

I haven't see this either, but it would make sense to screw up the locks system--that would really impede commerce and shoot prices up.

I keep thinking that these anthrax letters are either unconnected with the terrorists or are meant to divert us from larger targets--like the locks. Panama Canal would be a good target too--with both the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Panama Canal out of action, there would be no way for ships to get from one coast to the other, except via--what is it? Cape Horn? Whatever the hell it is around Tierra del Fuego down there. Can you imagine the extra cost of goods? Add in the Suez Canal, as well.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

Would be awfully difficult to get Canadian grain out to Europe, etc. The large majority of it travels by train east to Thunder Bay, ON (just north of Minnesota), and then is put on ships to go south to US, and east out to the Atlantic. Would be one more hit to our poor Canadian farmers. Ore is another large commodity that travels the Great Lakes, but I'm not sure where it goes, or for what purposes (steelmaking?).

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

I don't remember now where I read this. I read someone say they had a dream that two bodies of water would come together and (my word) drain. When I read it, my mind went to the great Lakes.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

First time posting here.

I agree with the comment about the anthrax incidents being a smoke screen to divert attention from other "targets". Makes sense to me.

Gotta question tho. Aside from the obvious disruption in trade what would actually happen if the locks were damaged. Don't mean to sound dumb but would it drain the great lakes? Would the Great Lakes flood???? Curious.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 2001

Welcome john.

I know nothing about the locks at the great lakes, but in So Fla te locks on the canals would allow the canals to drain to a point if left open. The main effect would be on the everglades and the lake, dropping the lake to a dangerous low which we just got away from, and making the everglades dry enough that wildlife would suffer, as well as increasing the likelyhood of fires going out of control.

Your's is a scary question considering where the lakes would drain too if the locks were damaged to stay open. Lots of cities on the border of the lakes and most everything else is 'downstream' as it were. Unless maybe the locks would allow them to drain to the ocean? And how low would they go?

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2001

Thanks Barefoot, I was thinking about this. I'm not an engineer so I could be all wet (pun intended) but sea level is sea level. As far as I know the great lakes are above sea level so if the locks were breached the lakes would "drain" towards sea level, the lowest point, possibly resulting in temporary flooding above the lowest unbreached lock. Dunno.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2001

The locks are so far from the ocean, that the only reason to have them is that one waterbody is higher than the other. (When at the mouths of rivers, it can be to guard against tidal influxes and influences.) So, yes, there would be drainage, and probably severe flooding along the shores of the lower waterbodies. That would include the St. Lawrence River, I would think. It might also make areas unnavigable for some vessels. There might also be other ecological issues with a transfer of that much water, depending on what noxious critters or others travel with it.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2001

John, if you hang in there for a bit, we have a couple of engineers on this forum and I'm sure your question will be answered before too long. Wouldn't be surprised if Brooks has some info, given all the environmental stuff she's involved in.

By the way, the difference between this forum and most others is we have fairly busy people here and concentrate on news and information we can use in case of natural and manmade disasters. That's why we don't put up with people coming in and trying to impose their own point of view. We don't mind a different point of view if it's presented courteously (even though we might ignore it!), but we won't tolerate insults and arguing for arguing's sake.

Questions like yours are great because we can all learn something we might find useful in the not too distant future.

(This forum was originally our disaster/crisis preparations forum but we opened it up to all because of the attacks crisis and the occasional inaccessibility of other forums. You can see some of our preps info if you scroll down the main page, below the regular threads, where the archived categories are.)

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2001

Hope this is ok to post with citation. Found after a minute of surfing. rb

A. P. Lino Grima, "Great Lakes," Discovery Channel School, original content provided by World Book Online, http://www.discoveryschool.com/homeworkhelp/ worldbook/atozgeography/g/234260.html, 16 October 2001   Great Lakes profile

Among the most important lake ports are Chicago, Milwaukee, and Gary on Lake Michigan; Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, and Ashtabula on Lake Erie; and Duluth, Superior, and Thunder Bay on Lake Superior. Other major ports in the Great Lakes region include Detroit, which lies on a river connecting Lake St. Clair and Lake Erie; and Toronto, on Lake Ontario.

The elevation of the lakes varies greatly. Lake Superior lies 600 feet (183 meters) above sea level, and Lake Ontario lies 243 feet (74 meters) above sea level. The greatest change in water levels between one lake and the next one is the 326-foot (99-meter) drop from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario. Part of this difference in water levels can be seen at Niagara Falls.

Commerce. The Soo Canals and the St. Lawrence Seaway are among the busiest canal systems in the world. The Great Lakes have greatly aided the industrial development of the United States and central Canada, especially in the steel industry. These waterways provide a quick route for ships that carry iron ore from the ports of Duluth and Two Harbors, Minn. ; Superior and Ashland, Wis. ; and Escanaba and Marquette, Mich., to the steelmaking centers that are located in northern Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

The Great Lakes also offer the best means for the shipment of the huge wheat crops of western Canada and the northern United States to milling centers in eastern Canada and in Buffalo. Other ships carry coal, copper, flour, and manufactured goods on the lakes.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2001

good find rb. I made your link hot in case anyone wants to visit.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2001

Thanks, rb. Can understand why freighters would not want to navigate a Niagara Falls! The possibility of losing locks here and in the Panama Canal is very unsettling.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2001

Thanks for the welcome all and the answers. With a 300' plus differential from one lake to another and the locks breached that 300plus feet would translate to approx 150 lbs of pressure with a zillion gallon flow rate. That sounds to me like BIG trouble.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2001

Oh sure, John, but think of how much more valuable the NEW beachfront property would be...

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2001