I'm considering buying either the 85mm f/1.5 Summarex or the 90mm Summicron f/2. Has anyone compared these lenses? I would be shooting HP5+ 99% of the time with the lens.

I would like the extra speed of the Summarex but if it is a dog, then perhaps I should opt for the Summicron.

I used a Canon Serenar 85mm f/2 with my M3 years ago and was satisfied with my HP5 negatives.

Thanks.

Tony

-- Tony Oresteen (aoresteen@mindspring.com), October 11, 2001

Answers

Tony,

Have you actually located an 85mm Summarex? They are quite old and have not been produced since 1948. Even the best lens from that time would be over shadowed today by even an average performer.

I looked this lens up in Erwin Puts' book and his narrative is paraphrased as follows: At full aperture, the lens has very low contrast. Outlines and coarse details are recorded quite visibly, but the edges are fuzzy. Fine detail is fully blurred at the maximum aperture. Image quality is "very good" at f/8.0, and f/11 is the optimum aperture. Flare and secondary images are visible, even on the coated models.

If your decision for the 85mm f/1.5 lens is based solely on the assumption of almost a one f-stop advantage over the 90mm Summicron, then you might want to reconsider. My experience with even the oldest 90mm lenses is that f/2.0, while not razor sharp, is still quite usable, especially for portraits. If you can locate one of the many newer generation of Summicrons being abandoned by people selling them off to buy the Aspheric APO models, then you would have a pretty good f/2.0 lens.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), October 11, 2001.

If you can locate one of the many newer generation of Summicrons being abandoned by people selling them off to buy the Aspheric APO models, then you would have a pretty good f/2.0 lens.

Pretty good?

The 90mm Summicron-M is the finest portrait lens I have ever used for any format in any focal length. It makes my second favorite, the Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM, look like the proverbial Coke bottle bottom in comparison.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), October 11, 2001.

Thanks Guys!

There's an 85 f/1.5 on ebay right now and I know a dealer who has a 90 f/2 in screw mount.

Since I use a Leica IIIF, an M mount Summicron doesn't help. Unless someone knows a repair shop that can convert a IIIF to an M mount that is!

Looks like the 90 f/2 is the way to go.

Thanks for your help!

Tony

-- Tony Oresteen (aoresteen@lsqgroup.com), October 11, 2001.

Sorry Tony. You mentioned using a LTM lens on your M3 in the past, so I assumed you were going to do the same thing now.

According to my Hove pocket book, the LTM 90mm Summicron is pretty rare, with only about 500 being produced. This could make it hard to find, and if found expensive.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), October 11, 2001.

Tony

The design for the Summarex dates back as early as 1941! The lens was issued in small numbers (in a black paint mount) in 1943 (some 90 units were produced, probably all went to the military). After the war, Leica re-introduced the Summarex, a few in black paint, but the vast majority in chrome. The post-war lenses were of the same optical formula but they were coated. The Summarex was produced (only in screw mount) up to 1960, by which time the last screw mount Leica, the IIIg, was discontinued.

Optically, the Summarex was reasonable in performance for the time it was designed (1940s). The 90/2.0 Summicron was introduced in 1957, by which time they had improved optical glasses and could design better lenses. The Summicron is a much better lens. But you may be aware that the 90/2.0 Summicron in screw mount is quite rare, more so than the chrome 85/1.5 Summarex.

Only about 500 original SM Summicrons were made. You should be aware that the early chrome bayonet mount Summicrons actually had a BM adapter glued at the factory onto the screw mount chassis. The adapter could be removed, but the little hole into which the red dot fitted would remain. I mention this because an original SM lens is worth considerably more than a BM lens with the adapter removed, so you shouldn't pay the full price (expensive, usually on the order of $ 1500 dependent upon condition) unless the lens is original.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), October 11, 2001.

You may want to consider one of the Jupiter 9 Sonnar copies in the 85mm f2.0. Some of the folks at the LUG site say if you get a good sample, they are in the same league as an earlier 90mm Summicron. Heck, at about $70 on ebay, buy a couple of them and test them out and keep the best one. The earlier chrome ones and the later 1980's black ones are supposed to be the best, with the mid 1970's lenses seeming to have the most quality controll problems. (first two digits in serial number are year of manufacture-I like that system)

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), October 11, 2001.

I've got a Canon 85/1.5. It's not too bad, but boy, is it HEAVY! Much cheaper than the Summarex, and probably of similar, or perhaps better, quality. And did I say it's HEAVY!?

My experience with Russian lenses has not been good--so not good that I'm starting to suspect that the people who think they are good are blind. Every one I've seen or tried has failed to couple properly with the Leica RF at close distances, in exactly the same way, to exactly the same extent. I'm thinking that the design simply isn't compatible, really, and liking them on Leicas is a combination of low personal standards and lack of using them close up. More later, when I figure it out completely--I'm still doing research.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), October 11, 2001.

Thanks to all for your advice. Right now I've decided to pass on the 85mm f/1.5. The 90 f/2 seems a bit pricy (I've located one at $900). My other options seem to be locating a late Canon 85 f/1.8 or a late black Nikkor 85 f/2.

Question: What is the going price for a late black Canon 85mm f/1.8 or a late black Nikkor 85mm f/2 in Leica Screw Mount? Assume good working condition and very clean glass.

Thanks!

Tony

-- Tony Oresteen (aoresteen@lsqgroup.com), October 12, 2001.