This guy was on the radio today basically pleading for the US to close down all Nuclear power plants and the reasons he gave would send a raccoon into permanent hibernation. Go to nirs.org and scroll down to 'Harvey Wasserman on nuclear security and terrorism'. If this is true, we've got a lot more than falling buildings and anthrax to worry about.

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), October 10, 2001

Answers

Boswell, I've seen a couple of these, and you'd have to go in from the air to get to one. Would a crop duster be big enough to punch through a dome?

I've got the giggles over how much doom and gloom is back on the net after y2k was such a fizzle. Only now it's "normal" people looking into this stuff. Not that it's funny, just hysterical. I cut my hand on foil the other day, and I wasn't even trying to make a hat.

-- helen (gloom@despair.and.agony), October 10, 2001.

Helen, that's exactly what the guy was saying. Any of those four airplanes was enough to punch thru and get the job done. People could yay or nay on y2k but I think this situation calls for a closer look. The end result sounds so final.

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), October 10, 2001.

AMERICA'S TERRORIST NUCLEAR THREAT TO ITSELF

By Harvey Wasserman

No sane nation hands to a wartime enemy atomic weapons set to go off within its own homeland, and then lights the fuse.

Yet as the bombs and missiles drop on Afghanistan, the certainty of terror retaliation inside America has turned our 103 nuclear power plants into weapons of apocalyptic destruction, just waiting to be used against us.

One or both planes that crashed into the World Trade Center on September 11, could have easily obliterated the two atomic reactors now operating at Indian Point, about 40 miles up the Hudson.

The catastrophic devastation would have been unfathomable. But those and a

hundred other American reactors are still running. Security has been

heightened. But all are vulnerable to another sophisticated terror attack

aimed at perpetrating the unthinkable.

Indian Point Unit One was shut long ago by public outcry. But Units 2 & 3

have operated since the 1970s. Back then there was talk of requiring reactor

containment domes to be strong enough to withstand a jetliner crash. But the

biggest jets were far smaller than the ones that fly today. Nor did those

early calculations account for the jet fuel whose hellish fire melted the

critical steel supports that ultimately brought down the Trade Center.

Had one or both those jets hit one or both the operating reactors at Indian

Point, the ensuing cloud of radiation would have dwarfed the ones at

Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.

The intense radioactive heat within today's operating reactors is the hottest

anywhere on the planet. So are the hellish levels of radioactivity.

Because Indian Point has operated so long, its accumulated radioactive burden

far exceeds that of Chernobyl, which ran only four years before it exploded.

Some believe the WTC jets could have collapsed or breached either of the

Indian Point containment domes. But at very least the massive impact and

intense jet fuel fire would destroy the human ability to control the plants'

functions. Vital cooling systems, backup power generators and communications

networks would crumble.

Indeed, Indian Point Unit One was shut because activists warned that its lack

of an emergency core cooling system made it an unacceptable risk. The

government ultimately agreed.

But today terrorist attacks could destroy those same critical cooling and

control systems that are vital to not only the Unit Two and Three reactor

cores, but to the spent fuel pools that sit on site.

The assault would not require a large jet. The safety systems are extremely

complex and virtually indefensible. One or more could be wiped out with a

wide range of easily deployed small aircraft, ground-based weapons, truck

bombs or even chemical/biological assaults aimed at the operating work force.

Dozens of US reactors have repeatedly failed even modest security tests over

the years. Even heightened wartime standards cannot guarantee protection of

the vast, supremely sensitive controls required for reactor safety.

Without continous monitoring and guaranteed water flow, the thousands of tons

of radioactive rods in the cores and the thousands more stored in those

fragile pools would rapidly melt into super-hot radioactive balls of lava

that would burn into the ground and the water table and, ultimately, the

Hudson.

Indeed, a jetcrash like the one on 9/11 or other forms of terrorist assault

at Indian Point could yield three infernal fireballs of molten radioactive

lava burning through the earth and into the aquifer and the river. Striking

water they would blast gigantic billows of horribly radioactive steam into

the atmosphere. Prevailing winds from the north and west might initially

drive these clouds of mass death downriver into New York City and east into

Westchester and Long Island.

But at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, winds ultimately shifted around the

compass to irradiate all surrounding areas with the devastating poisons

released by the on-going fiery torrent. At Indian Point, thousands of square

miles would have been saturated with the most lethal clouds ever created or

imagined, depositing relentless genetic poisons that would kill forever.

In nearby communities like Buchanan, Nyack, Monsey and scores more, infants

and small children would quickly die en masse. Virtually all pregnant women

would spontaneously abort, or ultimately give birth to horribly deformed

offspring. Ghastly sores, rashes, ulcerations and burns would afflict the

skin of millions. Emphysema, heart attacks, stroke, multiple organ failure,

hair loss, nausea, inability to eat or drink or swallow, diarrhea and

incontinance, sterility and impotence, asthma, blindness, and more would

kill thousands on the spot, and doom hundreds of thousands if not millions.

A terrible metallic taste would afflict virtually everyone downwind in New

York, New Jersey and New England, a ghoulish curse similar to that endured by

the fliers who dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagaskai, by those

living downwind from nuclear bomb tests in the south seas and Nevada, and by

victims caught in the downdrafts from Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.

Then comes the abominable wave of cancers, leukemias, lymphomas, tumors and

hellish diseases for which new names will have to be invented, and new

dimensions of agony will beg description.

Indeed, those who survived the initial wave of radiation would envy those who

did not.

Evacuation would be impossible, but thousands would die trying. Bridges and

highways would become killing fields for those attempting to escape to

destinations that would soon enough become equally deadly as the winds

shifted.

Attempts to quench the fires would be futile. At Chernobyl, pilots flying

helicopters that dropped boron on the fiery core died in droves. At Indian

Point, such missions would be a sure ticket to death. Their utility would be

doubtful as the molten cores rage uncontrolled for days, weeks and years,

spewing ever more devastation into the eco-sphere. More than 800,000 Soviet

draftees were forced through Chernobyl's seething remains in a futile attempt

to clean it up. They are dying in droves. Who would now volunteer for such

an American task force?

The radioactive cloud from Chernobyl blanketed the vast Ukraine and Belarus

landscape, then carried over Europe and into the jetstream, surging through

the west coast of the United States within ten days, carrying across our

northern tier, circling the globe, then coming back again.

The radioactive clouds from Indian Point would enshroud New York, New Jersey,

New England, and carry deep into the Atlantic and up into Canada and across

to Europe and around the globe again and again.

The immediate damage would render thousands of the world's most populous and

expensive square miles permanently uninhabitable. All five boroughs of New

York City would be an apocalyptic wasteland. The World Trade Center would be

rendered as unusable and even more lethal by a jet crash at Indian Point than

it was by the direct hits of 9/11. All real estate and economic value would

be poisonously radioactive throughout the entire region. Irreplaceable

trillions in human capital would be forever lost.

As at Three Mile Island, where thousands of farm and wild animals died in

heaps, and as at Chernobyl, where soil, water and plant life have been

hopelessly irradiated, natural eco-systems on which human and all other life

depends would be permanently and irrevocably destroyed,

Spiritually, psychologically, financially, ecologically, our nation would

never recover.

This is what we missed by a mere forty miles near New York City on September

11. Now that we are at war, this is what could be happening as you read

this.

There are 103 of these potential Bombs of the Apocalypse now operating in the

United States. They generate just 18% of America's electricity, just 8% of

our total energy. As with reactors elsewhere, the two at Indian Point have

both been off-line for long periods of time with no appreciable impact on

life in New York. Already an extremely expensive source of electricity, the

cost of attempting to defend these reactors will put nuclear energy even

further off the competitive scale.

Since its deregulation crisis, California---already the nation's second-most

efficient state---cut further into its electric consumption by some 15%.

Within a year the US could cheaply replace virtually with increased

efficiency all the reactors now so much more expensive to operate and

protect.

Yet, as the bombs fall and the terror escalates, Congress is fast-tracking a

form of legal immunity to protect the operators of reactors like Indian Point

from liability in case of a meltdown or terrorist attack.

Why is our nation handing its proclaimed enemies the weapons of our own mass

destruction, and then shielding from liability the companies that insist on

continuing to operate them?

Do we take this war seriously? Are we committed to the survival of our

nation?

If so, the ticking reactor bombs that could obliterate the very core of our

life and of all future generations must be shut down.

----------

Harvey Wasserman is author of THE LAST ENERGY WAR and co-author of KILLING

OUR OWN: THE DISASTER OF AMERICA'S EXPERIENCE WITH ATOMIC RADIATION. He is a senior advisor to NIRS.

-- uh-oh (worse@than.anthrax), October 10, 2001.

Oh, it's not like this guy has an agenda or anything is it?

Link

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), October 10, 2001.

take another peak at .book of revelation.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), October 10, 2001.

>>But Units 2 & 3 have operated since the 1970s. Back then there was talk of requiring reactor containment domes to be strong enough to withstand a jetliner crash. But the biggest jets were far smaller than the ones that fly today.

The biggest jetliner in the 1970s was the Boeing 747, commissioned circa 1969. The biggest jetliner today is the Boeing 747. Is the Boeing 747 far smaller than itself?

-- ThatsAllSillyOne (EbetheeEbethee@Ebethee.Ebethee), October 10, 2001.

Stop trying to be a terrorist, Boswell. You need to supply us with a map before we can take you seriously.

-- Loose Lips (Sink@ships.com), October 10, 2001.

Hey you're scaring me! I'm like 10 miles south of San Onofre plant.

-- (cin@cin.cin), October 10, 2001.

Hey Loose Lips, I didn't author that page, I just brought it up for you're own interpretation. My own thinking would suggest that if one plane at 250 Tons Gross Weight or more with several thousand gallons of jet fuel can impact and totally destroy a building as large as one Trade Center, it can certainly do that or worse to a Nuclear Dome or the surrounding buildings that are almost as important in keeping it running safely. And nobody, not even those that designed those structures, knows whether or not they would survive a hit. They certainly didn't test for that!

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), October 10, 2001.

Let us all post or write our ideas about worst case scenarios for terror and fex them to Bin Laden. They must be running short on ideas.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), October 10, 2001.

Boswell:

It has been a while, but as I remember the BC coast, Boswell is next to Goose Bay just beyond Cape Caution.

Any relationship. :)

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), October 10, 2001.

The essential Goose Bay is in Labrador.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 10, 2001.

If they aren't already, nuke plants should be protected by batteries of SAM missiles that are authorized to blast kamikaze commercial airliners that are on a collision course and ignore warnings.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 10, 2001.

Hey you're scaring me! I'm like 10 miles south of San Onofre plant.

-- (cin@cin.cin), October 10, 2001.

Hey wait a damn minute, isn't Camp Pendelton Marine Base just down the road(borders)from San Onofre?

Cin a Jarhead? hahahahaaa

-- Geography Police (geo@maps.cali), October 10, 2001.

More reason for the FAA to stop dicking around and to get damn serious with security. "One carry-on", fuck that noise. Should be NO CARRY-ONS. Airlines need to do their job better and get your bags to you at tops, 15 minutes. Mandate THAT.

ALL security personnel at ALL airports need to pass a background check, period no excuses.

About the security of those of us ON THE GROUND.

-- (stop@pandering2.airlines), October 10, 2001.

Excellent point Lars! And now for some constructive ideas! Every cockpit should have at least one pilot on deck that is qualified with fire arms. We trust them with jumbojets hauling 300 people and it is asinine to even suggest that they can't be trusted to defend their territory up front with a weapon. They need to ground themselves voluntarily and strike until that right is given to them by the airlines. Federal Av. Regs. already permit it. An air marshall should be on board with a weapon loaded with the special ammo that doesn't penetrate bulkheads or windows. And he should be INCOGNITO and nobody except the crew should know who he is or where he is sitting. This last point is very important in keeping the air marshall's weapon away from a terrorist. You can't have him sitting up front in a special seat with a badge on his chest. As long as airport security is handled by nitwits this is the only way to make flying safer. While on the subject, having National Guardsmen on site unarmed because some people feel uneasy is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard of! Hell give em a box knife to defend themselves. JEEESUS H. CEEEHRIST!

-- Boswell (Fundown@thefarm.net), October 10, 2001.

Bos

Just flew back from the Bahama's Monday evening. No commandos at Atlanta airport, but here in Jax there were several National Guardsmen in battle fatigues and fully armed with automatic rifles. Quite a sight in our little corner of the world.

BTW - I'll take the Keys over the Bahama's any day. WAY too expensive!! Of course that wouldn't have anything to do with the money-sucking casino at the resort where we stayed........

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthbeach.com), October 10, 2001.

What is a fex?

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), October 10, 2001.

Lars:

The essential Goose Bay is in Labrador.

You have lived in the East tooooo long. Life starts when you cross the Mississippi going west.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), October 10, 2001.

I'm guessing the Atlantis? How bout it Deano, suck your wallet dry?

Amen on the Keys, that corner of the world is the closest thing to paradise in the continental US.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), October 10, 2001.

"nuke plants should be protected by batteries of SAM missiles that are authorized to blast kamikaze commercial airliners that are on a collision course and ignore warnings."

Terrorists aren't stupid, they already know this. They also know a variety of easy ways to get to the target regardless of the SAMS and increased security measures.

-- (it won't @ stop. them), October 10, 2001.

But on the other hand Lars, protecting each nuclear facility with SAMS and AntiAircraft sites is also risky business because alot ot those nukes are within airport traffic areas already and those that aren't are only seconds away from a pattern which would lead to very itchy trigger fingers and the possibility of one being shot down that shouldn't have been. Who's going to make the call?

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), October 10, 2001.

Yo Unk!!

Actually we stayed at the Mariott Crystal Palace Resort AND (fucking) Casino. Took a taxi Saturday to Atlantis. WHAT A PLACE!! Managed to lose a quick $200 in that casino in a matter of 30 minutes. The aquarium has to be seen to be believed. Very impressive place that is way outa my price range!

I can say I've been there now.......ain't going back anytime soon. Nothing beats the Keys my friend!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), October 10, 2001.

FS:

What is a fex?

I wondered about that, but I assumed it was something that folks in NYC did. A kind of local ritual.

I decided not to ask. :)))

Best Wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), October 10, 2001.

Deano: I've been to Jamaica twice and enjoyed myself both times. I didn't stay at a tourist trap, as my goal has always been to see the locals wherever I travel. There's a great deal of fun to be had in Jamaica, although one would be served best by avoiding the city of Kingston. There are some unsavory sorts there who might just as well mug you as look at you.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 10, 2001.

Anita likes Jamica because she loves niggers. Is that not correct Anita?

-- (LadyLogic2000@yahoo.com), October 10, 2001.

A fex is a fax hexed by hacks.

-- helen (words@are.wonderful), October 10, 2001.