I am looking for an ideal flash for my M6 TTL which have angle and bounce capability. The thread suggest a Metz flash but which model? Many reviews i've read do not suggest in particular the Leica SF20. Thanks again for your valuable input.

-- Ed Gaddi (edgaddi@yahoo.com), October 06, 2001

Answers

There are several Metz units out that would fit the bill, and you need to get the TTL adapter cord for the M6. Stofen makes some of their Omni bounce products to fit the Metz flashes, and they are handy for covering wide angle lenses and softening shadows. Go to the Metz web site to check out the different models, some have more stuff on them than you'll need and are geared towards auto focus cameras. I can't remember the model number I had with my R7, but it was compact and bounced.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), October 06, 2001.

Just a note of caution. Becareful mounting a big and heavy flash on your M6. Its top plate is only a thin piece of zinc and will not take the stress. Borrow a Metz flash loaded with batteries and try it on your camera before committing to a purchase. I would use a flash bracket and not mount on the hotshoe for anything bigger than the SF20.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), October 06, 2001.

I have used the Sunpak 383 Super on a standard M6 for years with no ill effects. Its top plate is as strong as the top plates on most SLRs. The ideal flash for your purposes on a Leica M6TTL is the Metz 32Z2, with the 3501 or 3502 adaptor. It does bounce and swivel, can accept a dedicated Metz bouce reflector as well as color and neutral- density filters. It takes either AA, AA NiMH or NiCad or Lithium, or a Lithium cell (DL-something?). It has a zoom reflector from 28-85 which is manually-adjusted--no need for a motorized zoom on an M6.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), October 06, 2001.

Ray's caution about the weight of flashes is very sensible. I use the Metz 54, but mostly off camera with a sync cord. This does mean often someone else has to hold it, however.

For real bounce you definitely need a swivel head. Unfortunately many metz flashes swivel the wrong way (anticlockwise 180, clockwise 90) which is limiting when using the camera vertically, using a sync cord also solves this problem.

Non swivel flashes are very limited in application, OK outdoors but indoors they give the point and shoot look.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), October 06, 2001.

Jay, The M6TTL top plate is taller and the structural change seemed to have weaken it enough so if you mount a tall and heavy flash on the hot shoe the rangefinder will go out of alignment a little but goes back to normal until you remove the flash.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), October 06, 2001.

Really! Yet another reason for me to hang onto my M6 Classics I guess. Most of the time if I use a shoe-mounted flash on ly M6 it's the Olympus S20, which is the *exact same* unit as the one that comes with the Hexar RF and also the Leica CF (for Minilux Zoom), except it has no dedication and a price of about $50. The Metz 32-series are more squat than the cobra-style, provide less leverage on the shoe, but the downside is closer proximity to the lens' axis (red-eye) unless you use a diffuser of some sort. Perhaps the 32Z2 would not stress the M6TTL as much as the 54MZ3 enough to warp the rangefinder.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), October 07, 2001.

Hi Ed and everybody, If you have enough money (!)perhaps 2 units would be better: SF 20 is small and you can have it everytime in your pocket. Using it is very simple and easy but it is really expensive, with low GN (= 20), fixed head. For decentrate position, indirect lightning, of course, you must buy an other one (here I have no idea). Good luck, Alain

-- alain.besancon (alain.besancon@chu-dijon.fr), October 08, 2001.

Jay, I used the 32Z2 for quite a while but three things annoyed me about it: small range of settable apertures, limited swivel capability and lowish power. Also I found it had a tendency to burn its lens when used at the wideangle setting - which is where I was using it almost exclusively. The Bombay importer confirmed this was a problem with this unit if used intensively. I had to swap in a new lens after about 6 month's use, which isn't the end of the world of course. Apart from that it's an excellent unit as all Metz flashes are.

The 54 is even more versatile and addresses all the failings of the 32. I'm very pleased with the results, although I tend to use flash less and less these days.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), October 08, 2001.

I use the SF20. It's small, powerful enough, the TTL flash dedication and features work very well, and used with a Nikon SC-17 cable, one can use bounce and other techniques with it easily. The lithium batteries last a long time, helpful for those of us who use flash very infrequently. I particularly like the ability to control the flash output on automatic with a +/- 3EV compensation control.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 08, 2001.

I'm looking for a flash for my M6 TTL as well. I have the CF flash for the MLZ. Any thoughts on using this? I'm thinking of getting the Metz 54MZ3 for my R8 when my budget permits. I'd thought of using this on the M6 as well but comments on top plate damage make me rethink. I welcome your comments including thoughts on flash arms.

-- Greg More (gregmore@earthlink.net), October 08, 2001.

As Jay suggested the Metz 32Z2 with adaptor 3501 or 3502 would do the job but some esquire commented that the top plate of the shoe is not strong enough to handle the Metz 32Z2 with excessive use. I am not going to use the flash excessively except for some lowlight snapshots. But I am having second thoughts to get one now. Also a gentleman suggested an SF20 with a Nikon SC-17 cable, again my question, is that viable/possible? It seems that the SF20 is an ideal flash (of course without bounce) for the M6 TTL until such time Metz or Leica came up with an improved and portable flash with bounce and angle capabilities. Again thank you for your big help.REgards.

-- Ed Gaddi (edgaddi@yahoo.com), October 08, 2001.

Hi Ed, Godfrey and all Leica lovers,

As you know, I have a SF20 which I'm quite perfectly satisfied with. Could you please explain me what is the Nikon SC-17 cable? Does this accessory permit to move away the SF20 from the axis of the lens, what I suppose (and would be fine), and how to connect it to the flash: does it own a proper hot shoe on one extremity? Excuse me, in a "second life", I'll perhaps understand every mail at first time (but now ...). My best regards, Alain

-- alain.besancon (alain.besancon@chu-dijon.fr), October 09, 2001.

I believe what Phil Greenspun said so concisely: you only want flash in broad daylight, never inside or in the dark.

In broad daylight, you don't need ceiling bounce (luckily, since the ceilings at home!) or a bounce panel. Just a forward-firing flash is fine. If you are firing directly forward, the "Rolls Royce" solution is Nikon D or what most P&S cameras have.

The camera knows the target distance, aperture, and film speed. With Autoexposure, it can meter the incident exposure normally (for instance noting that would be exactly 1 stop too dark), and supply enough flash (knowing its own power) to illuminate the other 1/2 the exposure at the known focus distance.

The typical Leica user would instead want to tell the flash to supply a full exposure, half-exposure (1 stop under), quarter-exposure (2 stops under), etc.

The camera body "knows" the subject distance: it is using this knowlege to align the rangefinder correctly. However, the current Leica mount does NOT allow the lens to give the other crucial piece of the picture: the current aperture.

Therefore, my "wish" list for the Leica system is:

1) Lens mount communicates aperture back to camera 2) Camera can sense electronically, the range it machanically triangulates 3) A flash mount that communicates the range/aperture to flash 4) a flash with possibly only ONE CONTROL: a knob marked full to -3 stops in 1/3 stops.

In practice, this is isn't "camera intelligence", like a "matrix metering mode" whose algorithms are unknown and therefore not trusted by professionals -- especially Leica users. Instead, this is PURELY "camera automation", taking a calculation that is the ultimate in accuracy and automating it.

As a finicky user, I measure the incident exposure in sun and shade, and I see the shade is 3 stops under: enough to push shaded faces into zone II... So I tell my flash to supply -1.3 stops under, and set my shutter and aperture to underexpose by 1/3 or so. Then I can move closer and farther from subject, move more on the shady side or sunny side, and get a perfect flash and perfect exposure guaranteed, no matter whether the subject is white or black, no matter how big or small, etc.

A distant 5th would be either some lenses with 1/500 leaf shutters or a body with a 1/250 focal plane shutter, to double or triple fill- flash distance with a given shutter. Since leaf shutters limit optical design flamboyance, I'd prefer a Leica-quality body with a Canon-style shutter. But even with existing shutters, a flash with 4x more power would also double fill-flash distance 8-)

-- Frank Sheeran (fs@bsag.ch), October 12, 2001.

Alain, to answer some of your questions further up:

As you know, I have a SF20 which I'm quite perfectly satisfied with. Could you please explain me what is the Nikon SC-17 cable? Does this accessory permit to move away the SF20 from the axis of the lens

Yes, by up to one meter.

and how to connect it to the flash: does it own a proper hot shoe on one extremity?

Yes, exactly. Take a look at it in action, half way down in another thread. Cheers.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), October 14, 2001.