Dominated posession, yet never really looked like scoring. Bad mistake early on cost us dear and allowed them the luxury of defending in numbers and counter attacking - something they did very well.Frustrating enough conceding so early but to do it i such a foolish way was even worse. They could have won by more, but that would have been an injustice.

Some observations

The need for a dominant central midfielder is so glaringly obvious it is untrue. IMHO our season depends on this. Acuna runs and runs and is a huge assest as a squad player. Lee and Speed do not fill that void and are on the wrong side of 30. Contrast this with Murphy who has strength and penetration.If Bobby thinks we can make any impact this season without a quality addition in this area, then I think he is wrong. Sorry Bob, it really is the one area I think we are poor in

Griffin I felt did fairly well and should be 1st choice every game.

Sorry but I thought Eliiot was poor. His distribution was bad and he NEVER made any impact down the left. He was by no means alone and many of our moves broke down because of poor distribution.Too often we resorted to long balls which Henchoz and Hyppia lapped up time and time again. What was also noticeable was that it was always a Liverpool midfielder picking up their headers.

Solano and Robert were quiet and tightly marked by sometimes three players - making it more vital we had some impact in the centre. Surley there should have been space here with Liverpool occupied down the flanks?

Bellamy was good. Non stop running and was the only one who seemed to have the ability to hurt the opposition- which he did on several occassions.

Also thought Dabs and OBrien did OK as a pair .

A frustrating afternoon, made even harder by their early goal.Done by the experts at defending a lead and counter attacking. All rather annoying.

Interseted to here views of those at SJP rather than me who saw it on the Telly

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Answers

Have we progressed?

I havent a bloody clue. Bobby claims it is his strongest squad.

Dyer may have been some use today

We certainly lacked something and it is the second time in a week that our midfield has not really looked good.

Thoughts

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

I kept looking for Wyn Davies up front. Once again and for long periods we reverted to the punt up the middle. It was obvious from the first seconds that big Al was not going to win in the air against those two big lads.

Other than that, not a bad game except of course for the score. We literally had no innovation in midfield although we did battle well. We had the majority of possession, but I agree Pete, we need someone to control the midfield, unfortunately we don't have anyone that good.

Disappointed in the score, but not too depressed with the performance overall.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Don Hutchi$on is due a move in the next few weeks!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Bassedas not even on the bench today.

A write off?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Aggression.

Just someone being nasty and mixing it a bit.

Bellamy shows this characteristic.

Need a midfielder who can do likewise.

Not a cheat but someone who opposition fans hate.

A Bowyer or a Batty or a Parlour.

Know what I mean?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

I pretty much agree with what you are saying Pete.

In basic terms, this was my view of the game:

Liverpool got a lucky break early one - let's face it, a bobbled Rob Lee pass gifted them a goal. From that point on it was defend, defend, defend. For Christ's sake the whole Liverpool team was in their box when we had a corner - yet we still had four or five OUTSIDE of the box!

Bellamy was again our man of the match, non stop worker, he was the only one that gave me hope of an equaliser. Shearer was sadly missing for most of the game, although the tactic of long ball to Shearer's head isn't one I hope we persist with. Big Al did however dummy a couple of passes brilliantly - if he and Bellamy were on the same wavelength it would have been superb.

Solano was the better of our wide men, and I was surprised whn he was taken off. Robert didn't seem up for it for some reason. Down the left, when Elliott wandered forward, it was left to Elliott and Bellamy to make the runs behind - not Robert as it should have been, him being a winger and all.

Acuna was often left in midfield on his own, with Rob Lee sitting in defence for most of the game, in fact O'Brien and Dabizas were often left with nobody to pass to but fellow defenders as Acuna would be double marked and Lee behind them.

Griffin did well at times, but made two atrocious Bartonesque mistakes that almost resulted in a couple of goals against. Had this happened, would everyone be whinging at him like they do at Wozza?

I reckon if that early goal hadn't gone in, we would have had a real chance. As it was, as soon as we went behind, Liverpool got nine men behind the ball - and they did it well.

On a side note, the referee was again horrendous. He made a couple of decisions that defy the rules of football, as well as outruling his linesman twice, when the assisstant was standing yards away from incidents and the referee halfway across the pitch.

Also, Skysports.com says, "It will send Magpies boss Bobby Robson back to the drawing board, following their second successive Premiership defeat and second game without a goal."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we play, and beat Leicester City on Wednesday?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Someone the opposition fans hate? Have you forgotten about shearer?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

...or a Keane (spit), Viera (crache)?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Why is it with Houlier purporting to operate a squad rotation system in line with the other "biggies" does the back four particulary Henchoz/Hypia never change?. In a team that I now consider to be a counter attacking outfit they tend to see a lot of the ball but are never rested , how they get through security with those magnets in their heeds beats me, or does the opposition play to their strengths? Thank`s for your views Pete , one question I would like to ask, why no mention of Shearer`s performance?, is there a reason?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Shearer was continually asked to compete for high 'no hope ' balls that even if he had won would not have resulted in us profiting from the situation. The Leeds midfield took most second balls.

It was not his best performance - but I am not really sure what he was expected to do.

He ended the game out wide on the right I think after Shola came on.

Inclined to agree with comment above - Robert off. Leave Nobby on and let Bellamy attack behind Al and Shola.

Mind you bugger all came from either flank of real quality all afternoon. Would like to have seen Dyer in place of Nobby to run at them.

Complete opposite of Ipswich Leeds - end to end stuff.

Liverpool will win games this year like this.

We wont be the last

Still frustrated as we could have had a real go this afternoon.

Made worse by seeing googly eyes enjoying the victory after the game

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Cheers pete- makes sense now re Shearer

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

We were a tad one dimentional Buff with regard to the centre half pairing. They won everything - yet we seemed incapable of altering our tactic of high balls to Shearer.

When Bellamy attacked them we looked somewhat more of a threat, but in all honesty Dudek was never really tested.

I dunno. Dont claim to be an expert but a lack of real guile and imagination seemed to be the problem. But with Nobby, Bellamy and Robert all having this its hard for me to say where we fell down.

Still feel its in the centre of midfield where we are really lacking.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Just back from SJP (via the Straabeery). Very, very didsappointed. IMHO, we just weren't up for it. I expected better. We know we are never up for an away game in Lahndaan, but against 'pool, quite frankly I expected more. We were poor.

Sorry Paul, but I can't agree about Griffin. He was $h!te today. He made a couple of decent challenges, but his distribution was awful and he gave away posession far too many times - not that I'd say Barton would have been any better. Worrying. I though Elliott was slightly better, but not by much. He linked OK with Robert in the first half, but whether it was him, Robert or what, I don't know. Given had little to do - he can't be blamed for either goal and he was alert for the short back pass or thru ball. O'Brien and Dabs had good games, but against Heskey (who was poor, tho he won the lofted ball) and Fowler (who was cr@p), they didn't have a lot to do. Again, midfield let us down - no more so than Rob Lee who made a schoolboy error for their goal. As Paul says, it was uphill from that point on. Make no mistake, this wasn't a very good Liverpool side.

I thought Acuna was unfotunate to be subbed - I guess the coin came down wrong otherwise it could have bee Lee subbed by Speed (who did nowt when he came on). Perhaps I am sounding like an old grammaphone record which has got stuck, but I thought Solano had another poor game - not that he was alone. Talking to some Scousers in the pub after the game they were quite happy the Solano was playing as they thinkhe disappears too often (totally unprompted by me!). On the left, Robert had a poor game, tho he was marked by 2 everytime he got the ball.

Up front, Shearer had a poor game. Perhaps that's why there was no comment Buff. Bellamy ran and ran and ran (as ever) but his was the only movement on our side. I don't blame him or Shearer for not winning the ball in the air. With Hyppia and Henchoz against them, it was folly to hoof the ball up in the air as it simply came straight back at us. The biggest problem was the lack of movement in the middle and from Shearer up front meaning no outlets. At least when Shola come on there was an outlet runnig off the ball.

A final word about Liverpool. Workmanlike. It would have been far, far worse had LMO and Gerrard been playing. No stars, tho Murphy was OK, tho should have been booked for an awful challenge on Rob Lee. Not worth 2 goal difference, but we gave them both goals. Nuff sed.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Bobby has described the two liverpool as being like lighthouses. He goes on to say he cannot criticise his own team as Liverpool showed why they are so good

Question please. why oh why did we continue to try and hit these high long balls? Is it the limited movement up front?

Interesting Screacher that you thought Elliot was better than Griffin. Griffin made a howler but was saved by a flag when Fowlers 'goal' was ruled offside, but other than that he was ok??? Mind you he did offer little going forward and at least Robbie does not hide and dissapear unlike some others .

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Fed up & thoroughly frustrated, but no excuses - we were sh*te: simple as that.

We had the lion's share of possession, and huffed 'n puffed but created precisely nowt. For the 2nd game in a row we hit a ton of good crosses into the box and never got anyone on the end of any of them.

Apart from picking the ball out of the net twice, as a result of the by now standard joke defending, Given had absolutely nothing to do. I must however, give due credit to the much- maligned pairing of Dabs and O'Brien, who totally nullifed Heskey and Fowler - and the thought of these two forming England's strike-force next Saturday fills me with fobiding and depresses me even further. On the other hand, both our FB's were cr@p, and m/f was simply non- existent.

Superstar, Laurent Robert, was actually a bloody disgrace - totally disinterested - and I'd have had hauled him off instead of Solano, who was similarly useless, but was at last trying.

As always, Bellamy provided 99% of all our movement off the ball, and could have been our matchwinner if we'd kept the ball on the ground and played to him, instead of hitting long diagonal balls towards AS at every conceivable opportunity - principally because we didn't have the vision or the talent to do anything else.

Screacher asked after the WHU game whether it may possibly have been the Man U performance that was actually the odd one out in our season so far - today's performance provided the answer.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Similar thoughts from the Straabeery Clarky. Pit Bill commented that today and Wham was the norm while the ManUre match was exceptional (in all senses). He may not be back. He's gone to stick his heed in the electric oven. I expect him to be taken off by men in white coats.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

I thought that Liverpool were ordinary. I also thought that Acuna didn't deserve to go off. Speed did nowt, but he was not alone as Frenchbob was cack, and Nobby was absolute shite. When is he going to be dropped. I don't see what the problem is with him. Obviously he must play better if you sit closer to the pitch than me. Frenchbob is a lazy (Ginola-esque)git. Fed up big style. Working with 5 skip-rats tomorrow. really looking forward to it. And another thing. Did they start giving away free pies after they scored their second? Either that or the stadium was sinking.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Screacher, I thought Griffin was $hite, that was my point, I must have worded it wrongly. His mistakes could easily have been punished like Barton's were against Troyes.

Also agree about Acuna, he was our best midfielder - Rob Lee was responsible in a way for both goals, yet arguably our best midfielder on the day was taken off. It defies belief really.

However, we did exactly the same to Liverpool last season, an early goal and then a second on the break when they were caught up front - it was almost a reverse.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Just had a look at the back of the programme.

If Robert and Solano were going to be dropped (which could cause a hell of a lot of bother, especially in the case of Frenchbob) we would have Pedro Dimas or Olivier Bernard on the left to come in, and Diego Gavilan or Kieron Dyer on the right. The two right winger replacements are both injured at the moment however.

I can't remember being so annoyed during a game of football. The continuous long balls, as mentioned in nearly every post, were resulting in zero gain. Any success we got up front was from the result of Bellamy running down the wings.

I've got a feeling Speed and Lee are going to be our first choice midfielders from now on. Speed, I can't comment on as he hasn't played recently, but Rob Lee is not someone I would play every match. He is either commanding or invisible, or in this case attracted by the idea of passing to the other team.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Just got back from SJP after a bloody awful 3 and a half hours drive. Lots of Scousers on the a1/M62 to keep me company!

I thought our 2 full backs were dreadful today, Dabs and OB just kept having to cover for them and they did not link well with the wingers.

Robert looks fed up when he doesn't get the ball and solano was his usual post passport scandal self.

Shearer won hardly anything in the air against a well organised Pool defence who are all 7ft. Yet the full backs especially Elliot continued with their long ball into the box technique.

Given really had little to do. Midfield was over run.

The need for a quality aggressive MF is obvious. Noone linked the defence and forwards.

Poor old Bellamy ran his socks off bless him but was on his own most of the time.

A rotten game not helped by BR's comments where he more or less resigned himself to the defeat. We COULD and SHOULD have beat them, they were not that great!

Different game if we hadn't have let in that stupid early goal. They just sat back for 85 mins soaking up all our half-hearted pressure.

As for BR - usual too late subs. I would have had Shola on to at least challenge for high balls or Lua Lua to create some havoc. Also Bernard could not have done worse than Elliot surely?

Well rant over for now............

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

The really galling thing Lynda is that you're are quite correct - they weren't all that good!
If we're depending on that lot to push Manure all the way - then we may as well just tell them to leave the trophy in Salford for another year.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Clarky - to be fair, there are few (if any) on here who expect us to push for the Championship. But there are still a few of us left who expect them to give their all. Today, last Sunday and to an extent again on Wednesday, only Bellamy who did that.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Confounding, frustrating and more importantly concerning. This match came down to the fact that we had no idea what to do up the middle of the pitch. With the wings effectively shut down we spent most of the match looking for something to do with the ball. No one in the middle offered any solutions at all. The long ball was very uninventive because being ahead the 'pool defense expected such things.

A lot of comment on here about Robert. Unfair really. He was shut down by a valiant defensive effort. As was Bellamy. Shearer really needs to do more up front to try and get free. If he is going to continue to allow himself to get marked out of a game we are going to have to look at options that will be more productive. I have noticed since his return that he has done very little and this reminds me of a few seasons ago whee we felt that he had to be the middle of everything. Shola did more in a few minutes than Big Al did all game.

Shay Played well. Great save of F****r in the first half, not a whole lot to do but haul the ball up the pitch. I thought he made more incisive passes trhan Lee or Acuna did.

Defensively I thought we did well. Obvious mistake for Riise's goal, but I thought they settled in and we had solid efforts from Dabs, Griffin, and O'brien. Elliott was caught out quite a few times.

Midfield. well this is the story in a nutshell. Again, indecisive, and a total lack of imagination showed that we are nothing but a team with good wide players, but no guts up the middle. Acuna seems to bust his a** like there's no tomorrow, but can someone, anyone please tell me what it is he's doing??? Lee seemed not to want to go forward at all. Understandable, he wants to be back to help out, but not unless we have someone who is doing something productive going forward.

Nobby also worked hard, some of his crosses leave something to be desired, but get's up and down the pitch well enough. Robert was frustrated by Carragher all day. Mind you...is it me or did Liverpoool seem to have a serious height advantage on us???

All in all some serious questions need answering. YKD may provide some answers for us. But if I was Bobby I'd be looking at Bassedas or finding someone to give us a midfield presence with an eye up the middle.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

The difference between the two teams could be seen on the bench. They had Barmby and Litamanen - we had the first lads who'd finished their homework.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

As I said after the West Ham game, the fault lies in our mid field. The diffrence being that last week WHU attacked and overran it, this week Liverpool let them have the ball in the knowledge that they lacked penetrative power and could be caught on the break. We cannot afford both Solano and Robert both of whom fade away for long periods especially if the going gets tough. There were two encouraging signs Dabs and O'Brien aare developing a good understanding and virtually blotted out Heskey and Fowler, the other is that Bellamy is proving a revelation. But without some improvement in mid field another season is down the drain!

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

From the looks of this thread, everyone has the same thoughts on the game and Newcastle's team in general. Surely BR can also see what is wrong and make the necessary adjustments?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

What changed when Speed came on is that their keeper started ranging his kicks at O'Brien and Dabizas for Fowler to chase whereas before then he was knocking them short into the security of midfield where neebody in black and white challenged for them.

Elliot and Griffin were in the wrong league today and clearly should have been playing for the Red Lion, Shearer's laces were tied together, Nobby couldn't find a teammate with a f***ing map, Rob Lee looked like a man in his mid thirties, Robert got in some terrific crosses in the first half but didn't much fancy the second, Acuna still believes that there is a tackle-exclusion zone outside of our 18 yard box, Given made a wonderful save in the first half to keep us in it, O'Brien got seriously lucky with some fancy footwork in front of the box but otherwise he and Dabizas did okay against a counterattacking side and Bellamy and Shola were a joy to watch.

To sum up Liverpool: they were timewasting from the moment they scored. They came for 0-0 and got lucky. Thank God they didn't bring Litmanen on.

The great irony is that we pay to watch this shit.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

With respect sparrx, I don't think the comments ref Robert are unfair at all. There were spells in the 2nd half when he displayed utter contempt for his team mates who were toiling to get a grip on the game in general, and m/f in particular - standing around looking totally disinterested and unhappy.

There is no doubt in my mind that BR should have hauled him off, and that in not doing so was sending entirely the wrong signals to the player and the whole squad, and making a mistake that he will regret in the long-term.

Robert has to understand that when we are playing with two wide men it is absolutely essential that both wingers pull their weight and support the two central players and their FB's. As at WHU, our wingers today failed to do that and we suffered the inevitable consequences - over-run in m/f, yet again. Solano was hopeless, but imo at least he worked hard.

There are most definitely shades of Ginola's temperament with Laurent Robert, and has to understand that unless he is prepared to graft within the context of the team his undoubtedly special talent will be of very limited value to us.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Robert was well marked by two defenders in the first half. This should have made an opening for SO Else to capitalise on. We're going to have to get used to this - and so is Robert. He is a talented player and has been lauded in the press. Is it therefore any surprise that he will be closely marked in future?

In his defence, perhaps he's not used to this attention, and on top of his "injury", maybe that explains his 2nd half attitude (which was at the far side of the pitch/end of the ground from me).

So, what's the other 8 excuses???

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

not that I totally disagree Clarky, Robert seems to fall into a zone that I believe is in respect to what is hapenning around him. The only outlet he really had today was Bellamy, Shearer provided NO supoort at all. Neither did the midfield and it must be frustrating to be left having to go one on one all the time. I think his frustration lies in the fact that he is offered no support at all.

It seems that the rest of the side seem to stand around and gawk at him to see if he will produce a bit of magic. No off the ball movement. This was further supported by the amount of times the back four had to knock the ball about between themselve, and more often simply boot it upfield and pray for a foul or whatever.

Not a good performance at all, but taking off Robert was NOT going to be the answer.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

The toe-curling aspect of the back four passing the ball about is that they weren't under any pressure whilst doing it. The entire Liverpool team sat back in their half and watched us traipse up and down like a bunch of urchins outside a sweet shop who can't reach the door handle. Pathetic. If you are on the ball with no opponent then take the sodding thing forward yourself, don't bliddy hoof it.

So frustrating. The saddest thing is that the qualities we were crying out for to beat that lot were lots of height and lots of aggression, and I don't want to watch the mackems every week.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Having executed the worst header live on telly in the first half, I kept quiet for the rest of the game.

I went with a Liverpool supporting mate who was kind enough to agree with my perception of the game. Andy O’Brien & Dabs had a good game keeping Fowler & Hesky quiet (not a good sign for next week), the rest were average. The centre of midfield will come away thinking they did OK but in reality they had no movement, no invention, no craft & didn’t give any options to the man in possession. The defence so often had to hit it long or in the case of O’brien go on a mazy dribble.

The answer is the center midfield duo cannot consist of two players prepared to sit deep & stand like statues.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Can't argue with much on here.

As I walked away from the ground I was imagining a comment on here about Griffin being no better than Barton. He was, but only because he can tackle, his distribution was no better.

From our perch up high it was very furstrating to see the Liverpool team just drop back into their own half and our lot being totally unable to work out what to do about it. Only right at the end when we moved down the stand to be closer to an exit did I see the ground level vie wof the problem. From a Dabizas (say) point of view it was just a solid wall of red with no obvious outlet.

Last week I suggested I wanted my defenders to defend, this they did relatively okay, no one lese in he team did what they were supposed to though. While we have a central midfield made up of any two of Lee/SPeed/Acuna we will struggle. On odd days Robert or Solano will have sparkling games and we'll be okay, but if I was playing against Newcastle then I too would double up on Solano and Robert and just ignore Lee/Acuna/Speed. When was the last time Robert Lee got in front of our forwards ? I really don't remember it ever happening, although he did get 3 goals in Antwerp so it has happened. If you're an opposing manager you look at that and say Robert Lee isn't a midfielder he's just a defender. We therefore become a team playing 5- 3-2. The reason Acuna looks headless is that he is the only central midfield player to try and link both wings together and to the forwards. To compound his problem he isn't very good.

When met with Liverpool'd solid midfield you have to go around it, we decided to go over it. Numerous times both Solano and Robert were infield rather than out wide, one time we even had the "humour" of Solano challenging for a header against one of the lighthouses. Why th ewingers were inside I don't know but it compressed things even more, making it even easier for the solid formation to defend.

Robert managed to get Carragher booked in the first half yet never went the Ginola next step of getting the guy sent off. He HAD to take him on again yet never did.

Shearer was hopeless in a situation like this. Bellamy whizzes around being a pain and without him it would have been exactly like last season. He is our mobility, no on elese moves into dangerous spaces (ref the wingers being inside).

Seeing us bring Speed on just depressed me. I'd missed his reserve team convalescence games so I was surprised he was on the subs bench. He adds nothing, in fact he is more like Lee than Lee is sometimes. Suddenly we went from having one poor sole (sic) trying to link up midfield to none. Now we had 6 defenders and no midfielders who could (try and) play in their half. We were creating a 50 yard 'hole' for someone to play in, shame we don't have anyone of that sort.

Now I love him a lot and I may therefore be biased, but Shola makes all the difference. Shola comes on and actually commits their defenders in a way no one else does. Maybe when he gets the double up defenders treatment he'll suffer but at the moment he just makes thinugs happen. I felt he had more spark in his ten minutes than the rest of them had in the whole game. (Bellamy is a nuisance, and occasionally creates too).

Moving forward I feel we have to accept that this year will be the same as last. Some games Robert will shine and that is a plus on last year. Bellamy is a better version of Kevin Gallacher. Solano will come and go in games as he has no one to threaten his place until Dyer returns. Defence is okay but will really nothing special. While we have Lee/Speed/Acuna we will will never get anywhere.

Having read the very good match programme yesterday I note that if Robert Lee plays for us next season he will be the oldest post war player Newcastle have had. I would like him to not get that honour.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Poor stuff indeed.
1) Shearer should have been subbed yesterday.
2) Robert should have his arse kicked, whingeing get that he is. He must work harder when things aren't going his way.
3) Solano is a one game in four man.
3) Elliot & Griffin & Lee & Speed & Acuna & Barton can be grouped together as poor to OK.
4) Get the cheque book oot Bob. Midfield at the moment just is not good enough.
5) The centre of defence played well yesterday - I'll say that again, the centre of defence played well yesterday, I can't believe I just said that.

Dyer in that kind of game would have been smashing and Bellamy I'm in love with.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Photographic evidence

I just uploaded to my PC the photos I took at SJP yesterday. There are 7 over the period 14:15 to 14:38, so not just an isolated incident. In 5 of them, there are 9 Liverpool players in their box (with one in the "D"), 10 in one and all 11 in another. And to think, they used to call @rsenal boring.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

OK, my tuppeny worth of nonsense.

Once Liverpool got their goal (and a hell of a strike, real belter) they decided to defend in numbers. And they did that very well indeed. Attack against defence for 85 mins. Robert was double marked out of large portions of the game. The only disappointing thing was not to see more effort / direct running being made on the left once Carragher (?) was booked in the 1st half. Elliott was ok. Acuna was also ok, and Lee was ok. Getting a pattern? Solano was the best midfielder for us. Speed was anonymous when he came on. Ameobi needed 20 mins. And in contrast to others, for me Shearer was easily the best player. He was defending as our best centre-half, he was tackling in midfield and fought hard up front. His delightful dummy in the box almost led to Bellamy's headed equaliser. If only it was the other way round. The fact that little came of it or very much for that matter, was midfield. Lee / Acuna / Speed. Simply they do not offer enough of an attacking option. How we missed Dyer! Defensively they are all fairly sound, but once Liverpool snuffed out our wide men we lacked ideas through the middle. We were cautious to commit players, and Liverpool's 2nd goal showed why. Sheer pace and one touch football.

We were beaten by a side that came to take the goal on the break and defend for large parts of the match. Houlier planned this game exceptionally well, and reaped the rewards. I can't believe there's all this talk of us being sh&te or needing to spend tons of money. Rubbish. Good teams lose games. I think we are a good or at worst ok team, but beaten by a better one who played us exactly right. Sniff out our main threats out wide, stiffle the midfield, defend in numbers and wait for opportunities.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

sparxx,

I don't recall suggesting that taking Robert off would have been the answer - in fact it wouldn't have made that much difference. I was however suggesting that his attitude during the 2nd half was a bloody disgrace, and for that reason it was crass not take him off because of the message this conveys to the rest of the team. That was my point.

Now, having slept on it, I've concluded BR was actually correct in not taking him off. Firstly, he is undoubtedly a match-winner, and he might just have done something that got us a point fom the game. Secondly, given his gallic temperament, he would undoubtedly have regarded substitution as a public humiliation by BR, and that may have sown the seeds of a much greater problem with the guy.

Much better to get the game out of the way, and then perhaps today, have a nice, cosy, one-on-one chat with the guy about attitude, committment and the role of the individual within team-play (!!!).

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

I completely agree with Bobby. We weren't as bad as some people think - Liverpool put on an excellent defensive display - as good as anything I've seen, once they got the fortuitous first goal.

They stifled Robert, pressured all game where it counted, and never looked like losing - give them some credit - there aren't many teams in the PL that could have done that. Yes everyone's right (again) about our central midfield - we need better. Hopefully Dyer will be the answer, but another (Holland/ Prutton, even Rednapp? - got to be better than Butt, would be nice. Give Griffin his chance, it looked like the pitch was a skating rink yesterday and for some reason he had more trouble than most keeping his feet. Elliott - jury's out - I still hope Bernard has what it takes. On another day, against another team, they'll all play a lot better - Liverpool were good - they came to do a job and did it!

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Good quote in Caulkin's report in the Times this morning that sums the match up: Liverpool weren't two goals better than Newcastle. But they were two goals more 'effective'.

Frustration rather than completely disheartened, is what I feel. As has been said before, if we hadn't gifted them the early goal, it would I think have been a very, very even game.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

I didn't think we were that bad. Some of the passing was poor, and yes there weren't many ideas coming from midfield. The wingers were marked out of the game and Shearer didn't stand a chance against Liverpools big defenders. The trouble with Liverpool was that they ARE a good team and they defended in numbers. Perhaps our fullbacks , should have overlaped the wingers on a few occasions and the central midfielders should possibly have tried to go through the middle .But they didn't take the risks hoping that they could play safe and get an equaliser.

In the past we've played well against the better premiership teams who came to give us a game . Liverool played like Charlton/wimbledon/everton yesterday and reaped the rewards.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

I'm with Bobby too. We were not that bad. Liverpool did their homework and did the business. On yesterday's evidence however, I think a 100% fit Cort (pah!) might well be number one choice over Shearer.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

The verdict threads are the highlight of the week: the differences in opinion really push your giggle buttons. For my money, I thought Liverpool were repulsive to watch but played a wonderful "away" game, defending in depth and scoring on the counter-attack. I don't think we were that bad: the Scouse morons on the away section were behaving like they'd beaten Real Madrid. I thought our fullbacks were appalling - I'm not saying that Griffin should be dropped necessarily, but if Barton had made some of the cock-ups he made yesterday, we'd be calling for his head. I thought Elliott was hiding. The CBs were OK but frankly had nowt to do as Heskey and Fowler were just awful. Given was OK. The crowd seemed to spend most of the game, shouting "Get rid of the f....g ball" as we don't have anyone in defence who is prepared to hoof the ball into row Z if neccesary. In midfield, we were awful. Acuna did a lot of running around and I think he was subbed because we were getting loads of crosses into the box and weren't winning any headers: Speedo is meant to be good in the air. The wingers weren't up for it and I thought Nobby was shocking. Robert was well-marshalled but put in one or two good crosses. Shearer worked hard but can we dispel the myth about him being good in the air? I know he is only about 5ft10 and he'll struggle against 23 feet centre halves, but he was just awful in that department yesterday. Bellamy ran his socks off and was MOTM IMHO. Shola looked good when he came on, I thought. The scary thing about this is that we just couldn't deal with an aerial game. It's only two years since George Graham was commenting on our being about the biggest side in the PL (we'd just managed a draw in the Cup at WHL) and we were worrying that we were developing into a bit of a route one team. Now, we can't win a single header. I'm not suggesting we start emulating the Windowlickers but we really need to learn to deal with an aerial game. The other thing about yesterday was that we reverted to the "Pointless Possession" of the past three seasons, overpassing ourselves and everyone shy of taking a shot. Liverpool were happy to let us keep the ball as we wouldn't have scored if we had played til midnight. Central midfielder with pace and strength has to be the priority, though.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Certainly we have proven inept before when teams come to defend against us, and although this is the first time this season I have a feeling it may not be the last. Why is it the two weakest areas of our game are so easily exposed? Luckily Liverpool didn't have a chance at too many set pieces in our end yesterday. We shall see if Dyer's return shows us anything different.

Last word here, It was mentioned by someone that Shearer had a good game yesterday. They mentioned his lovely dummy of the ball in the first half, that left Bellamy with the chance. I wonder if he had played the ball (like a good center forward should) whether he might have scored or even been fouled and got us a penalty.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Crikey - i'd have trouble arguing with anything that's been said on here. My first match since Soton away last year and it's amazing how little we seem to have changed. There was no invention and seemingly very little determination IMHO. I have to say that it was matched by the performance of the crowd. The Milburn Paddock library? The whole place was. Except for the Scouse-sliencing mini-chant that got up of 'Where were you on Wednesday night'. I can only put it down to 49,000 collective hangovers from a Saturday night out on the Town after the end of the month payday.

Anyway, we also lacked LEADERSHIP yesterday. We had a good spell for 20 minutes or so just before half-time but instead of carrying on in that vein in the 2nd half, Liverpool frustrated us and defended solidly. The Shearer, Robert and Solano were very static and Bellamy [making many eat his words] was our best option. So what did the midfield and defence do? Hoyed it up in the air in tha vague hope that it might elude the twin towers of Hyppia and Henchoz. Clueless. I'd argue that that is where sheer determination [shown by ManUre i hate to say v Spurs] can come through. did we look likely? Nah. They looked like they were waiting for a miracle instead of fighting for a breakthrough.

Still, it's GREAT to be back and good to see so many familiar [if not smiling] faces in the Strawberry afterwards. I saw Keiron Dyer outside the Metro Station on my way back. Just asked him to come back soon. He didn't look at all happy.

There's a long way to go, but it's gonna be a long season.

Keep the Faith.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

We may have french / Peruvian flair on the wings but if the ball ain;t getting to them then it can't be used. Has Elliott fall out with Lauren. He seemed to be looking for anybody else to pass to and then if he couldn't find anyone or run it himself he then looked to Robert. WHY? Even then they pair of them didn't look as if they could be bothered to run at the opposition half the time.

At least my new Sunday league team won 10-0. I had something to be happy about.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Nice moment before the game. A crowd of young lads at the front of the Milburn Paddock were calling to the Liverpool players as they came off after the warm-up. They all ignored them apart from Jamie Redknapp who came across and signed everything he was asked to. He went off and a moment later a steward came back with his training top which he gave to one of the bairns.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Good footballer, popular player, speaks to fans, cracking wife...is there nothing Jamie can't do?

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

If there is I'm sure Louise will be getting in touch with you

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

It seems our results are based on the performance of the midfield.

Shearer will always stick them away given the chance and Bellamy never stops moving - that is a constant in our side.

However, we NEED at least one winger to have a good game - this chances of this are improved by having Robert and Solano, but more importantly the central midfield partnership needs to perform. Rob Lee is only required for certain games IMHO, but we don't have anyone to replace him :( The chequebook is the answer, certainl Nicky Butt as suggested in a different thread would be an answer.

Also, I don't agree on bit that we are worse than last season. Remember that last season we had Bassedas on wide left for over half of the campaign. Can anyone seriously say that he adds more to the team on left wing than Robert does? Robert was a lazy get yesterday, but he put in a couple of good crosses, probably the exact same amount that Bassedas has completed in his entire Newcastle career thus far.

I still reckon that if that goal early on hadn't gone in we would have had a real chance - more time on the ball, less defence to get past, more chances, heck we could even have won the game. But sadly it's not to be. However, you could also say that Wes Brown could have cleared the ball off the line and the Man Utd game instead ends 3-3. Would you rather get a 3-3 with Man Utd and a draw with Liverpool, or just beat Manure? Surely three points is better than two?

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Still haven't got over yesterday. Not sure why. Why not play Shearer in midfield instead of Rob Lee. Let Acuna do the fetching and play Shola (love that lad) and Bellamy. AS then has the option to go forward if he wants, or not. I think he looks tired/knackered and I don't think he can keep up with Bellamy for 90 minutes. Bellamy looks a bit lost when he has to hold up play for support and is more effective running with the ball. I know this sounds negative (which is the way I feel at present) but it could be a positive step. It would be very dependant on YBRs bottle and Shearers pride. Maybe I've just lost the plot.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Shearer in midfield was an idea we discussed a while back and most thought it could work.

However, we all seemed to dismiss it recently as he was putting the goals in. He would still be a canny midfielder IMHO, great at coming forward and joining the attack and he is often a class defender with his headers. Not sure whether he can tackle like a midfielder should be able to though.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Only problem is that he can't reach the box in time for crosses when leading the line - stick him 20 yards further back and he'll only ever score penalties (unless they are really important ones). He's having a poor run of form just now. He's banged on about poor service in the past but for the last 3 games he has had crosses raining in from left and right and has only managed a header at the keeper, two over the crossbar and a ball into the back of the Gallowgate that still hasn't come back down. If he can't do his job then he should be dropped, or is it different for him?

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

To provide an alternative view of yesterday's game, the following is an extract of a report from Liverpool's "Fortress Anfield" site:

"Fans who have supported Liverpool longer than a season (my little attack on the glory hunters out there) will know that there have been some great games over the years between Newcastle and ourselves.

The first one that obviously springs to mind is the classic 4-3 thriller at Anfield in 1996. There was a lot resting on the result of this game and victory was vital for both teams. I’m not going to go into a match report or even revive the old memories of this game, but what I will say is that this game will always make the Newcastle – Liverpool a encounter to look forward to.

Yesterdays meeting was nothing of the sort, however, with Newcastle enjoying large amounts of possession of the ball and continuously carving out of chances. Hyypia and Henchoz stayed solid throughout the game though and kept Newcastle’s attackers at bay on a number of occasions. I think that the midfielders don’t give enough cover for the defence. Hamann was absent from the game yesterday and so that explains why they got at the defence so much".

THEY clearly didn't think we were that bad, so perhaps we (including me) really are being overly critical?

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Yes Clarky we are perhaps being overcritical, but isn't that the same of all football fans?

We were (and still are) annoyed with the Newcastle United because every one of us knew exactly what was going wrong and knew after seeing the Manure game that we were capable of beating Liverpool on a good day never mind a distinctly average one.

Had we been a very poor side I wouldn't have been so bothered about the game, but we knew that we should have beaten them and that's why it hurt so much. Yet another missed opportunity.

However, as this thread shows, we are being constructively critical. A lot of fans in the ground on Sunday were plain ignorant. So and so is shit, we should get rid of him etc etc. I hear this every week from some of them around me. The thing I despise the most is the way they will applaud Alan Shearer for completely missing a shot, yet they will hurl abuse at Nobby Solano or Acuna if they put something wide. It's as if Shearer is never wrong. I like Shearer as much as the next fan, but some of the apparent hatred towards some of the foreign players is simply not on.

By the way, this thread is one of the most interesting match report threads I have read in a long time, certainly better than anything the newspapers have to offer.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

I thought the comments a while back about Shearer going back to MF were worth a try. However, now I am much less sure. We lack a quality midfielder in the Viera/Keane/Veron/Petit/Gerrard mould. Somebody who will be back in defence one minute and banging them in up front the next. As Softie puts it, Shearer would never be able to cope with that role. He'd be a similar player to Rob Lee.

Shearer's best position is up front banging in the goals. If he's not doing that, he should be dropped for somebody who can (er, maybe that's the fault in my logic?). Or at least not play a full 90 mins when he's clearly sh@gged out. Round pegs, square holes. Why have England started to become a better team when they have players playing in their club positions rather than in the team because of who they are? I'm not saying Shearer couldn't adapt, but I think the EPL is the wrong place to try it out. I may well be able to ride a unicycle, but I sure don't want to learn on the M25.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

But would he be similar to Rob Lee now, or Rob Lee of a season or two ago who could get the job done and be counted on to play most games? Still isn't the long term answer, obviously. And it would depend on Shearer being willing to take on that role, which I'm not convinced he'd do. He seems to see himself as a striker only, though he seems willing enough to put himself into midfield or defence when need be.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

I don't think we were that bad - we did create a number of good chances and if they had fallen to other players we would have scored. O'Briens header for one. A Liverpool friend of mine summed it up nicely:

Liverpool took their chances and Newcastle didn't. That was the difference between the two teams.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Alan Shearer would play in m/f if he was selected there, and he wouldn't whinge about it - pure and simple.

I don't think it will happen cos I don't think he is - or ever was - mobile enough to play there.

The guy is still seeking match sharpness after a long lay- off, is being over-played (yet again) during this period, and has looked a little jaded in the last two games. However, cut him a little slack, and I reckon he will prove the doubters wrong - yet again. I still fancy him for 20 goals this season.

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2001