Edward R. Murrow, Dec. 8 1941

snip

I can report that our commander-in-chief is calm and will not ask for a precipitous "outright" declaration of war against the Japanese, but instead leans toward a general consensus to "hunt down the perpetrators" of this act of "infamy." Speaking for the Congress, Senator Arthur Vandenberg promised bipartisan support to "bring to justice" the Japanese pilots. Many believe that the "rogue" airmen may well have flown from Japanese warships. In response, Secretary of War Stimson is calling for "an international coalition to indict these cowardly purveyors of death," and will shortly ask the Japanese imperial government to hand over the suspected airman from the Akagi and Kaga — "and any more of these cruel fanatics who took off from ships involved in this dastardly act." Assistant Secretary Robert Patterson was said to have remarked, "Stimson is madder than hell — poor old Admiral Yamamato has a lot of explaining to do."

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2001

Answers

Carl, don't forget that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that some of our own government/military people knew the Japanese were up to something. We had good evidence they had a fleet near Pearl Harbor, but did nothing to warn the base there. No recon planes were airborne, no search of the sea going on, nothing. The statements made about it are that FDR wanted a strike to occur in order to mobilize American sentiment toward full scale military buildup in the Pacific. Is that impossible? Heresy? Because, if solid research does show the likelihood of such a decision then reality suddenly shifts.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Gordon, I had a similar conversation in face-to-face mode the other day, and my response was, I'm not prepared to believe that TPTB in this country would allow 7,000 civilians to die to galvanize the American people in the direction these shadowy super-politicians want.... guess I'm just not cynical enough...

I've heard the rumors you're talking about (none proven by the way) and they do bother me...

Gordon, I like you, but this suggestion that Bush et. al, sat back and allowed this to happen in order to accomplish some New World Order agenda... it really bothers me.

Please, I really don't want to go any further down this road with you. I've always respected your thoughts, even when I didn't agree with you. This one is really giving me a problem though...

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Carl, I understand your problem with this. In fact, you are in the majority, by far. Almost *nobody* wants to consider such things. It would devastate our psyche, to say the least. However, if you read deeply into such things as Oklahoma City, Pearl Harbor, and *many* other such things, including Viet Nam, another picture evolves.

Look, we took a loss of about 50,000 troops killed in Viet Nam. 100s of thousands wounded, some critically. Drug addictions. Broken hearts and minds. And then there were perhaps 5 times that amount of Viet Namese similarly damaged. For what, Carl? Have you ever become comfortable with a good explanation for that mayhem?

If you don't want to think about it, don't. In fact if my own approach to all this is distasteful to the majority of those who visit here, I will stop. Just request that I get off the alternative thinking trail that I have been going down, and I will stop it. I can just as easily sit back and watch the show. It isn't going to change due to anything I have to say, or think. I'm just trying to encourage a deeper way of understanding than just a knee-jerk reaction. We have all been manipulated by knee-jerk in the past, many, many times.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Gordon.

I marched in many an anti-war protest as a child, and always felt, and still do, that our motives in Viet Nam were wrong. However, at the age of 19, I volunteered, not for a desk job, but as a soldier, with the 101st Airborne.

I come from a long family history of fighting America’s wars, and while I believed it was my right to question the decisions of my government, I also felt it my duty to defend that government, with my life if it deemed that necessary.

This is not the Gulf of Tonkin, this is not Pearl Harbor…. There are no parallels in our nation’s history… 6,000 non-combatants murdered, nearly 9,000 casualties, in a single day, on American soil.

I sit here checking my e-mail, hoping to hear from my son, a Navy Seal, but no word for the last two weeks. I hear of Special Forces maybe captured, of the treatment of prisoners by the Taliban in the past, and I do not sleep well these days.

But by God if they’d let me, I’d be there right by his side. Talk of your conspiracies later. For now, we have a country and a way of life to defend, and if you don’t believe that, then fine, keep your sons home.

Mine is in the line of fire, and the suggestion that he is because of a NWO plot to trick us into subjugating our rights infuriates me…

I know you believe there is historical precedent to cause concerns such as yours, but at the moment, they are not welcome thoughts for the many of us who have lost a loved one, or face the loss of a loved one, because of the animals that orchestrated this horror.

Sometimes the line between blind obedience and loyalty to a just cause is a fine one. Did the terrorists who committed suicide diving the planes into the WTC and the Pentagon debate whether their cause was just enough to kill themselves and potentially ten’s of thousands of innocent men, women and children? That was not an act of blind obedience, but one of fervent belief that their cause was worth the sacrifice.

If we cannot match that commitment, that willingness to loose all in order to protect that which we love, or believe in, then we’ve already lost.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Carl, I hear your anguish and concern. Those suicide "terrorists" were mind-programed to do that. I don't think there is any doubt about that, is there? Whether it was simple religious mind programming or the more disturbing sort that is being spoken of by some very credible people, remains to be seen. In the meantime, remember those 5 phases we go through when confronted with upsetting information that is outside our presently practiced reality.

1. Denial (our first reaction)

2. Anger (at the "information" itself)

3. Bargaining (an attempt to cope)

4. Depression (as the old reality dies)

5. Acceptance (as the new reality begins)

None of us like to admit we made some basic error, some blunder, in understanding what is driving our lives. None of us. We all want to believe we are following our best leaders, in our best interest, whether that be just financial, or the more serious war drums. That is not always the case. History is full of confirmed examples of entire nations being led astray by the powerful, wealthy, and greedy men who control it all. Could that happen here, to us? What a stomach turner that would be, huh? Sorry, but I can't change what goes on. If that is too upsetting to a lot of members here, I will stop talking about it. We can all then go back to our previous dreams of reality. Well, maybe I can't go back. But what does that matter anyway?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

I'll admit that at the moment, my thoughts are driven by emotional, not logical, considerations.

If I am alone in this response to your theories, then I'm alone. It wouldn't be a first.

I respect your opinions, and your right to express them, but at the moment, I consider them in bad taste, to say the least...

I don't wish a "Gordon vs. Carl" scenario, simply a consideration that perhaps at the moment, as we're in the thick of things, a little empathy with the emotional state of those who are from military families might suggest a brief respite from the NWO conspiracy crap...

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Carl, I relate intensely to the military family situation, believe me. I have friends who served in Viet Nam, at the front, and I see their jangled nerves. They gave their all. Risked their lives. Because their country, or at least their government, told them this was a necessary thing to do for world freedom. And they believed that.

When you get into the 5 stages you can actually recognize the process. Stage 1, denial is something we use a lot in our daily lives, so that part is common in all sorts of things. But stage 2, anger, that's when we know we are caught up in something that is threatening our present reality. Anger about anything that opposes our beliefs.

Frankly, the reason I was posting a lot stuff previously about UFOs is because I thought it was something we should be incorporating into our present reality. Our government doesn't want us to think about them. They deny it, or ridicule it, or cover it up. Some there have said it's for our own good. That it would crush our reality. That we couldn't handle the truth. Like Jack Nicholson in the movie A Few Good Men, when he said "the truth, you want the truth, you couldn't handle the truth." That's been our official government position on UFOs.

However, since the Sumerians, and others, have said the ETs actually created us using DNA manipulation thousands of years ago, we really do need to consider that, don't you think? And if they were manipulating our DNA for certain reasons, what were the reasons? See, this really goes far beyond just my saying that some present governments, world leaders, are playing around with us. In fact, I think the ET matter is actually the "end of road" that all this other stuff leads to. Financial manipulations. Wars in endless chains thoughout our history. But, my oh my, talk about busting realities. That would be the mother buster of all of them, wouldn't it?

While most people choose not to deal with that issue right now, it isn't going to go away. Too many credible people have solid knowledge about it. Only the general population is kept in the dark, kept in denial. Deceptions are a provable thing, we know that. If a deception is in progress and someone, like myself, raises that issue, it's not because I have no sensitivity to our common fighting forces. It's because I hate seeing what these deceptions do to people in the end, like Viet Nam, where they can't come to grips with the way they were sent out to die. Are we just going to march to new orders now? Why? Why is a war we can't win, in the way we want to win it, a good thing?

No, unless we go nuclear we won't stop the terror under any conventional "solutions" now being offered up. The Brits can't stop it with the IRA. The Israelis can't stop it with the Palestians. So, let the missles rip, OK? I know you don't want that. Nor I. Who *would* wish that? We really do need to get past our old failed thinking. Personally, the thought that I am being manipulated now, and have been manipulated in the past, is very distasteful to me. But if that's the case, it's the case. I don't have to jump up and salute every war drum the President pounds, whoever the President may be.

Ahhh shucks, maybe you're right, and I'm totally out of order here.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Guys.

The answers you seek may not be the ones you expect. But, rest assured, they will come.

We are in a new world now, and there is no going back to the old one.

Believe this, the universe will unfold as it should.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Amen, Barefoot, I agree with you 100% on that one. That's why I sometimes say we are just spectators in the play, the game. We can sit here and speculate about what will happen next, but the plot is what it is, and will unfold before us, like it, or not like it. Since I believe we are all just souls, on a soul journey of lessons, I can be relatively comfortable with whatever comes down, however it turns out.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001