I have a new Australian Shepherd puppy. He's 4 months old and is learning to become a house dog right now. Eventually, I want him to be a working dog also. I have chickens now and will get sheep eventually. I took him out to meet the chickens the other day, on lead, and he tried to chase them. I told him "no" and as he ran toward them, he reached the end of the leash and flipped himself over. I didn't jerk on him, just told him "no" and let things take their own course. This happend a couple of times. Since then, he shows interest in the chickens, but not in an aggressive way, just perking his ears up and standing or sitting close to me. When they come around us (they're pretty tame) he seems concerned, hiding behind me or sitting between my legs and does not try to go toward them or bark at them. Have I ruined him for herding? I wanted to start him on ducks in the spring but am concernded now that he will not want to go to them. This winter I will work on basic obedience training, on and, when ready, off lead. He will not be allowed near the chickens off-lead until I'm sure I have control over him. I haven't trained a dog to herd before. I do have a book on training that I will use.

-- Deb Foster (DFoster987@aol.com), September 27, 2001

Answers

Hi Deb! I have an Australian Shepherd-border collie mix that I'm trying to train right now-we got her late as a stray so she's almost not a puppy-she's probably about nine months now. What book are you using? I've been using the Monks of NewSkete-"How to be your dogs best friend" but its mostly obedience-which this dog needs-but I havn't found anything about herding chickens or ducks. These dogs are pretty smart-I doubt you've "ruined" him for herding just on a couple of tries. Trixie took to being a house dog right away though she occasionally wants to chew on things if we leave her in the house while we're gone. She's getting much better, though and my family has learned-more or less, not to leave thier shoes and stuff laying around where she could get them-a real bonus for me!

-- Kelly (markelly@scrtc.com), September 27, 2001.

Deb, I think you've done a great thing! You've trained him from ever killing a chicken! :) No, I don't think you've ruined him for herding. Big difference between large animals and chickens, and while herding dogs are traditionally started on ducks, it's not mandatory. Also, a dog certainly knows the difference between ducks and hens. I wouldn't worry. Lots of water will be over the dam by next spring, anyway.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), September 27, 2001.

Hi Kelly. The book I have is "Herding Dogs-Progressive Training" by Vergil S. Holland. I think I got it at Barnes and Noble, off the shelf but can't remember for sure. I guess I'd better read it all. Just browsed thru it when I bought it and that was when I had my first Aussie several years ago. Never managed to do any herding with him, although he was a natural at it. Herded my full grown geese when he was an 8 week old pup! This pup is not as sharp as that one, but is from working lines. Most of the books I've seen on herding are geared toward the Border Collie, but this one does address training other breeds and special considerations there might be for them.

-- Deb Foster (DFoster987@aol.com), September 27, 2001.

Thanks Jennifer. I was just going to start him on ducks because I doubt I'll be ready for sheep by spring.... no fences yet. I'll be glad if it did teach him not to kill chickens. We were out there this morning and he stood still with them all around him. In fact, my dark Brahma rooster came right up to him. Seemed to be interested in the shiny snap on the leash. I didn't let him peck Shadow or anything and the pup didn't try to run away or snap, just sat there, looking a little worried, but quiet and under no direct restraint, just my hand patting him and telling him what a good boy he was. I'm hoping that exposing him to them will teach him that they're part of the family and to be protected. He does show some protective instincts already. I know that herding dogs aren't LGDs and won't trust him with the critters unless I'm out there.

-- Deb Foster (DFoster987@aol.com), September 27, 2001.

You need a dog that is under control in herding. I would let your puppy tag along on leash while doing the chores, praising him when he isn't lunging or trying for the chickens. You can also start teaching him the down or stop command (standing still). Then let him walk around on leash with you and the chickens. I started my dogs on sheep, the instructor starts them on leash and then dragging a line (much easier to catch a dog). They need to learn to listen to you. To stop, change direction, and go on command and not simply be let out to chase the sheep and maybe direct them to where they are suppose to go. I would also teach a reliable recall, let him drag a long line, when he is intrested in something he needs to be able and turn and come to you. I wouldn't be concerned about ruining him with a couple of 'no's', but he does need to have confidence in walking around the chickens the way you want him to without chasing or harming them.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), September 27, 2001.

Here are 2 books I am using. The Farmers Dog by John Holmes and Heeler Power by Mari Shaffer. I am training a dog that I got at 9 months that had attained a lot of bad habits and I think whe is doing well!

Lynn

-- Lynn (johnnypfc@yahoo.com), September 27, 2001.

Hi,

I have two Aussies (brother & sister) about the same age & have the same attitude about chickens. From what I understand (from trainers), that you should wait until they are about 1 year old before herd training. Mine are learning basic obedience now, (sit, down, off, come, stay, etc.) I know I won't start herd training them until the late spring.

-- Pam (pamandmatt@earthlink.net), September 27, 2001.

Deb, use your search engine, find the Australian Shepherd site and also find the Australian Cattle Dog site. Also, find a good obedience club in your area, some of their members probably herd and belong to a herding club.They will lead you to herding sites and good reference books. It will help you and your dog a lot if you find out where your local herding clubs meet(you will find someone to contact on those sites) and start taking classes and go to a trial or two. That will give you lots of contacts in your area for this. You'll learn what kind of ducks to use and how to care for them also. This is a complicated and fun endeavor that is rewarding but takes a serious investment in time with your dog. Start learning now so you can avoid bad habits you will have to unlearn later for you and your dog. :)

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), September 28, 2001.