First of all, let me state that Slate isn't a publication of which I'm particularly fond. This article, however, just seemed to "mesh" with my thoughts recently.

As Lars stated recently, the American CIA "made" bin Laden. America "made" many other terrorists by training them in methods that were helpful in fighting the perceived enemies of the era. Now, we're taking sides again, forgiving past sins, and recruiting anyone/everyone who will provide support to us in the endeavor of THIS era. How soon will these trained mercenaries/terrorists use the skills they've learned against us?

One must admit that the Keenie-Meenie Services [KMS] has a humorous ring to it.

Who are we kidding?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001

Answers

Oops...the Keenie-Meenie Services was in a different article

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

These new "partnerships" are making me just a little bit jumpy

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

Am I the only one here who "sees" this?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

As I've just finished reading the news [almost], I checked this thread for responses. ZIP. Not even a dissenting voice on this one?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

The irony of bin Laden is clear. The danger of creating another monster is clear. No dissent from me. Nonetheless, we have to bring bin Laden and friends down. Whatever it takes.

You don't seem to think he will strike again. Why?

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 27, 2001.

Answer here

-- B (or@not.to.b), September 27, 2001.

Lars: My hero!

Regarding another attack by bin Laden, I'm still not convinced he was responsible for the FIRST attack. The only evidence I've seen in print about him points to responsibility for the attack on an American Embassy in Africa in 1998 [I think.] There are SO MANY terrorist organizations throughout the world that I think we're wasting our time concentrating on this one guy who's apparently ailing. Now the guy slotted to take his place is another story in my mind. I forgot his name, but it starts with an M. Word has it that this guy makes bin Laden look like Mother Theresa in comparison. As Isabella said to Valentina in The Jackal "Declan had passion. HE was fighting for his cause. THIS man is just ICE".

Anyway, I doubt we'll ever learn WHO was responsible for the WTC/Pentagon bombings. It's all "top secret" ya know. I have no objection to using Navy Seals, red and green berets, SAS, and even the Keenie-Meenie Services to hunt for these men. My objection comes in when we start forgiving/forgetting our enemies to train them in terrorism when we don't even know for sure that they weren't the ones who did this.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 28, 2001.

All is fair in love and war.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), September 28, 2001.

Anita--

That is the second time you have mentioned The Jackal (that I have noticed). I enjoyed the movie too but I think it got bum reviews. I also liked the original jackal (1970s?) and the book (Forsythe?).

I don't disagree with what you said but neither do I see it as a reason to do nothing. Maybe the circle has closed and we must return to the idea that we (the public) are not to be apprised in real time of everything that the government does. Maybe we will never learn who ordered the WTC but unless you are into deep conspiracy theories, it appears that BL was very involved. He was already the nation's most wanted person for the first WTC bombing so IMO he deserves to die. Hard.

I guess at some point you have to trust. I think America will unravel the terror networks but it won't be over in 3 months of TV war like the Gulf War.

As far as creating a new monster from the "Northern Coalition", I agree it's possible. Given our experience with the Muhajadin, I think we'll at least be more aware and more alert to new "unintended consequences".

My guess is that, as usual, our next crisis (after this one) will come from an unexpected direction. That seems to be the universal principle that applies.

PS--it sure is unpredictable what thread will take off. I bet that most here have shared the frustration of starting a thread that they thought was interesting and then no one replies.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 28, 2001.

The Jackal is one of my favorite movies, Lars. I enjoy the plot, the acting, and it's in our library of home videos. In addition, it's in Dolby Surroundsound, so I can take advantage of SO's "system" and listen to "Oom bada" pumped up to a volume that makes my heart pop out of my chest. Richard Gere provides great eye- candy, as well. I ALMOST have it memorized, and with MY memory, that's quite a feat.

As to the 1973 WTC attack, I do believe that BL was THOUGHT to be the culprit years back, but further evidence disproved that theory. I'll try and hunt up some information for you on that. I think I discussed it on another forum recently and provided a link.

There's no doubt in my mind that SOMETHING should be done, Lars, nor that something WILL be done. So far, however, the FBI and CIA haven't had a stellar reputation for pinpointing the correct group involved. I don't expect that to change until they obtain more agents qualified and willing to weed through documents written in Arabic and Farsi.

And, yes, I have been on a roll the past two weeks or so on this subject. I've found the geopolitics of it all quite fascinating. I really need to go back and take notes so I can keep the names and organizations straight in my mind. It seems like everyone's name starts with the same letter. How DID they seat students in elementary school?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

If you don't accept it was BL, who would be your other suspects?

1)-A Muslim terror group other than Al Qeada?

2)-The Russian mafia or equivalent gangster group?

3)-A radical Marxist group such as the one in Columbia?

4)-A drug cartel (Mexican, Columbian, other)?

5)-Israel?

6)-Bush and NWO?

7)-China?

8) N. Korea?

9)-Crips or Bloods?

10)-other?

I'm fresh out of candidates (even long shots) but I'm curious to hear any theories. In the meantime the clock is ticking.

I liked the Russian gal who got killed by mean ole Bruce Willis. What weakened the movie for me was the ending. I thought the shootout in the DC Metro was corny.

-

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 29, 2001.

The answer to your question is 1). I know I need to search out the information on this, but I'm still trying to keep up with the current political news. It's a daily struggle.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

I forgot to include Iraq in the list.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 29, 2001.

Here's a little start from today's news, Lars, but the news in the past two weeks provided a bit more.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

Lars: Yes...Iraq is VERY suspicious in all this, but they're, perhaps not the only "players."

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

Jeez...let me first correct the 1973 reference and update it to 1993.

Iraq is indicated in this one, Lars.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

Here's another that indicates Saddam, Lars. I'm not suggesting that this is the last. What I'm suggesting is that indications to the guilt of bin Laden in this latest massacre are premature at best.

more stuff

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

Here's my last link for this time, Lars. I'm sure that [given enough time and interest] I could include Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other countries that the U.S. is now considering in training exercises. Lebanon ALSO strikes a high-point for me, although I'm not convinced I have a link to back that up.

Last link for Lars

I don't worry about the training of the folks in Northern Afghanistan. These folks have been trained before and are simply passing on their training. *I* worry about the folks being trained from the other countries.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

Yesterday two Iraqis with fraudulent French papers were stopped at Chile's border as they tried to enter from Peru.

-- wonder (howf@r.north.they'd.been), September 29, 2001.

Anita--

It looks like there are terrorists everywhere. What do you think we should do? We could take them all on or just pick off the most convenient and let the others stew in their own turbans (my preference--along with a carrot/stick diplomacy) or we could be really, really nice and do nothing and await the next gift of their Islamic love.

I am not an Area Expert. I could spend the rest of my life reading scraps from a thousand Net sites and I would still know little. My sense is that we are up against something that has yet to reveal itself. My sense is that there are at least three dimensions on which Islamists challenge us--the first is "conventional" thuggery as manifested by Saddam and the Syrian guy. The second is "conventional" nationalism as manifested by Libya, Egypt and most others. The third is unconventional terror as manifested by the radical Muslims. The first two we know how to deal with (more or less). The third we are learning, the hard way. The first two and the third appear more than willing to make common cause against us for now. Ultimately they are enemies. Saddam is no Muslim. Saddam was all set to conquer Saudi Arabia right after Kuwait ten years ago. We prevented that, you're welcome bin Laden.

Confounding these challenges is the issue of Israel. For better or worse we are committed to stand with Israel. I think it is for the better (barely).

I think that President Bush and his team are doing as well as can be expected, so far. I say that as an American, not as a Republican. It has been 18 days since the sneak attack and so far there has been no overt military response. Doesn't that qualify as RESTRAINT? However, in the meantime, there has been considerable progress in exposing the world-wide terrorist conspiracy, strengthening our national security (I see no point in playing a blame-game on our vulnerability; there is enough blame to go around), following the money, lining up international cooperation, politically and financially isolating bin Laden, marshalling our military and our Intelligence.

I have always said that I do not advocate regular Army on the ground in Afghanistan. So far, so good.

I also believe that we need to be very vigilant, very "ready" for many years. The Middle East is getting nukes soon. They will buy delivery systems from the Russians or Chinese or Koreans or they will make them themselves. No dummies these guys. Does the US have the willpower to remain "ready"? Can we conduct another Cold War?

I'm not convinced our new enemy will acquiesce to a strategy of MAD anyhow. Afterall, the Soviets were rational by comparison to the Muslim militants.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 30, 2001.

Lars: I'm not suggesting that the administration isn't doing all they can on this. In fact, I read an article in The New York Times just this morning [in the International section] on how the Clinton Administration engaged in much the same process. I don't want to link to it and have you ask why I sent you to the registration page.

The enemies in this war reflect the true meaning of Keenie- Meenie snakes in the grass. Intelligence must definitely be better if Bush doesn't want to toss a $2 mil missile at an empty $10 tent. Bringing world-wide intelligence forces together to fight this one was certainly a good idea, IMO. This is NOT strictly an American problem, afterall.

I'm not at all an expert in geopolitics either, but I do my best to at least attempt to bring myself up to speed. If nothing else, I can communicate better on world affairs with that guy I live with, who got his undergraduate degree in Political Science.

I think I already forgot what I was going to say next. What were we discussing? Heh.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 30, 2001.

"[I]ndications to the guilt of bin Laden in this latest massacre are premature at best." The following is dated about a year ago. Link al-Qa'ida (The Base)
Maktab al-Khidamat (MAK - Services Office)
International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders
Usama Ibn Ladin / Osama bin Laden

Al-Qa'ida is multi-national, with members from numerous countries and with a worldwide presence. Senior leaders in the organization are also senior leaders in other terrorist organizations, including those designated by the Department of State as foreign terrorist organizations, such as the Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya and the Egyptian al-Jihad. Al-Qa'ida seeks a global radicalization of existing Islamic groups and the creation of radical Islamic groups where none exist.

Al-Qa'ida supports Muslim fighters in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, and now Kosovo. It also trains members of terrorist organizations from such diverse countries as the Philippines, Algeria, and Eritrea.

Al-Qa'ida's goal is to "unite all Muslims and to establish a government which follows the rule of the Caliphs." Bin Ladin has stated that the only way to establish the Caliphate is by force. Al-Qa'ida's goal, therefore, is to overthrow nearly all Muslim governments, which are viewed as corrupt, to drive Western influence from those countries, and eventually to abolish state boundaries.

Usama bin Ladin, a multi-millionaire ex-Saudi financier who is a principal source of funding and direction for Al-Qa'ida, has been described by the US Government as "one of the most significant financial sponsors of Islamic extremist activities in the world today." Usama Bin Ladin was born around 1955 in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. He is the youngest son of Muhammad Bin Ladin, a wealthy Saudi of Yemeni origin and founder of the Bin Ladin Group, a construction firm heavily involved with Saudi Government contracts.

Usama Bin Ladin left Saudi Arabia to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan in 1979. He sponsored and led a number of Arabs fighting in Afghanistan against the Soviets in the 1980s. In the mid-1980s he co-founded the Maktab al-Khidamat (MAK) or Services Office, to help funnel fighters and money to the Afghan resistance in Peshawar with the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood leader Abdallah Azzam. The MAK ultimately established recruitment centers around the world -- including in the U.S., Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan -- that enlisted, sheltered, and transported thousands of individuals from over 50 countries to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. It also organized and funded paramilitary training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Bin Ladin imported heavy equipment to cut roads and tunnels and to build hospitals and storage depots in Afghanistan. As many as 10,000 Arabs received training and combat experience in Afghanistan. Of these, nearly half were Saudis, with others including more than 3000 Algerians, 2000 Egyptians, and hundreds of others from Yemen, Sudan, Pakistan, Syria and other Muslim states.

Bin Ladin split from Azzam in the late 1980s to extend his campaign to all corners of the globe while Azzam remained focused only on support to Muslims waging military campaigns. Bin Ladin formed a new organization in 1988 called al-Qa'ida -- the military "base." After Azzam was killed by a car bomb in late 1989, the MAK split, with the extremist faction joining Bin Ladin's organization. Bin Ladin returned to work in his family's Jeddah-based construction business after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989, but he continued his organization to support opposition movements in Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

After Afghanistan, Bin-Ladin ran the Jihad Committee which includes the Egyptian Islamic Group and the Jihad Organization in Yemen, the Pakistani al-Hadith group, the Lebanese Partisans League, the Libyan Islamic Group, Bayt al-Imam Group in Jordan, and the Islamic Group in Algeria. This committee runs the Islamic Information Observatory center in London, which organizes media activity for these organizations, and the Advisory and Reformation Body which also has a bureau in London.

In 1991 he relocated to the Sudan, and in 1994 he was stripped of his Saudi citizenship after Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen accused him of supporting subversive groups. Although the Afghan war had ended, al-Qa'ida has remained a formidable organization consisting of mujahedin of many nationalities who had previously fought with Bin Ladin. Many of these have remained loyal to and continue working with him today.

Sudan harbors a number of terrorist groups, although in May 1996 it expelled Bin Laden and members of some terrorist groups under Saudi pressure, and in response to U.S. insistence and to the threat of UN sanctions following Sudan's alleged complicity in the attempted assassination of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Ethiopia in 1995.

Bin Laden quickly returned to Afghanistan after leaving Sudan, where his support for and participation in Islamic extremist activities continued. Since departing Sudan he is said to have changed considerably, suspecting that there are plots to murder him, so he reportedly now only trusts only a narrow circle of people. He is reported to act on the premise that attack is the best line of defense, rather than efforts to unify extremist groups.

Prior to the emergence of the Taleban he was functioning and moving around freely while Rabbani and Massood ruled in Kabul. Bin Laden was subsequently reported to be living in Taleban-held Jalalabad in Afghanistan with about 50 of his family members and bodyguards. A few months after his arrival in Afghanistan the Taleban gained control over Jalalabad and Kabul, and launched a campaign against the "Arab Afghans." In February 1997 the Taleban rejected an American agreement to turn Bin Ladin over to them in return for international recognition and obtaining Afghanistan's seat in international organizations. But in early 1997 at least two large bombs were detonated in Jalalabad as part of attempts to assassinate Bin Ladin, including a 19 March 1997 explosion that destroy the police station, killing more than 50 and wounding 150. Bin Ladin subsequently moved to Kandahar from his Jalalabad stronghold as a result of concerns for his personal safety. Kandahar is the stronghold of the Students of the Shari'ah's, and the central residence of the Commander of the Faithful al-Mulla Muhammad 'Umar. The Taleban Islamic State of Afghanistan claimed that they moved him to Kandahar to keep him under strict limitations [according to some reports he was under house arrest], and that he was no longer allowed to use Afghan soil to cause harm to any country, including Saudi Arabia.

Most recently he was reportedly moving between four or five camps in Afghanistan which are the bases for about 200 followers staying with him. He has financed and supported some 600 or 700 other people outside Afghanistan. Bin Laden is said to have established cells of supporters in Yemen, and as of late 1996 it was reported that an additional 2,000 "Afghans" were resident in Somalia and the Ogaden region, with relatively few actually in Afghanistan.

Bin-Ladin provides money to humanitarian organizations and to Islamic publications and groups. He advocates the destruction of the United States, which he sees as the chief obstacle to reform in Muslim societies. Since 1996, his anti-U.S. rhetoric has escalated to the point of calling for worldwide attacks on Americans and allies, including civilians.

Bin-Ladin was involved in operations against the American forces in Somalia in 1993. In 1995 it was reported that Bin Ladin had agreed to finance a "Gulf Battalion" organized by the Iranian Guardians of the Revolution. It was suggested that he had convinced Yemeni fundamentalist leader Shaykh 'Abd-al-Majid al-Zandani, to position elements of the Gulf Battalion in al-Zandani's camps in Yemen for deployment in Gulf countries when circumstances permited. Osama Bin Laden is suspected by the US of being responsible for 1996 bomb attacks on American service personnel in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia.

In mid-1996 a meeting of various leaders convened by Bin Laden reached a consensus "to use force to confront all foreign forces stationed on Islamic land," and to form a planning committee; a financing, supply, and mobilization committee; and a higher military committee to oversee implementation of the plan. Bin Ladin publicly issued his "Declaration of War" against the United States in August 1996. When anti-U.S. attacks did not materialize immediately, he explained the delay: "If we wanted to carry out small operations, it would have been easy to do so immediately after the statements. Even the nature of the battle requires good preparation."

In November 1996 he pronounced as "praiseworthy terrorism" the bombings in Riyadh and at Khobar in Saudi Arabia, promising that other attacks would follow. He admitted carrying out attacks on U.S. military personnel in Somalia and Yemen, declaring that "we used to hunt them down in Mogadishu." He stated in an interview broadcast in February 1997 that "if someone can kill an American soldier, it is better than wasting time on other matters."

In February 1998, Bin Ladin announced the creation of a new alliance of terrorist organizations, the "International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders." The Front included the Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the Harakat ul-Ansar, and two other groups. The Front declared its intention to attack Americans and our allies, including civilians, anywhere in the world. By at least February 1998, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad had effectively merged with al Qaeda and joined with al Qaeda in targeting American civilians.

In May 1998, he stated at a press conference in Afghanistan that we would see the results of his threats "in a few weeks."

On 07 August 1998 a car bomb exploded behind the US Embassy, killing 291 persons and wounding about 5,000. The majority of the casualties were Kenyan citizens. Twelve US citizens died, and six were injured in the attack. A group calling itself the "Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places" immediately claimed responsibility for the attacks in Nairobi and a near-simultaneous explosion in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. US officials believe the group is a cover name used by Usama Bin Ladin' al-Qaida organization. Indictments were returned in the US District Court for the Southern District of New York charging Usama Bin Ladin and 11 other individuals for these and other terrorist acts against US citizens. At yearend, four of the indicted- Wadih El Hage, Mohamed Rashed Daoud al-Owhali, Mamdouh Mahmud Salim, and Mohammed Sadeeck Odeh-were being held in New York, while Khalid al-Fawwaz remained in the United Kingdom pending extradition to the United States. The other suspects remain at large. The Government of Kenya cooperated closely with the United States in the criminal investigation of the bombing. On 20 August 1998, President Clinton amended Executive Order 12947 to add Usama Bin Ladin and his key associates to the list of terrorists, thus blocking their US assets-including property and bank accounts-and prohibiting all US financial transactions with them. Bin Laden remains in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban, an ultra-conservative Islamic militia that controls most of that country. The United States conducted a bombing run -- Operation Infinite Reach -- against bin Laden's facilities there on 20 August 1998.

Bin-Ladin's investments include companies involved in property management, maritime transport, aircraft rental, public works, contracting and other commercial activities in a number of countries. His investments in Sudan include construction and agricultural projects, with other commercial activities in Somalia, Switzerland, and Luxembourg. His European interests are managed by lawyers in Switzerland, which makes his financial dealings and support to terrorism difficult, but not impossible, to follow.

Acting under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter, the Security Council on 15 October 1999 demanded that the Afghan faction, known as the Taliban, turn over Usama bin Laden to appropriate authorities in a country where he would be brought to justice. In that context, it decided that on 14 November 1999 all States shall freeze funds and prohibit the take-off and landing of Taliban-owned aircraft unless or until the Taliban complies with that demand. Since the Taliban did not comply with this obligation, the measures of the resolution have entered into effect.

Taliban representatives had stated that they were totally opposed to terrorism, but that Mr. bin Laden was a guest, that he had become a resident of Afghanistan prior to the Taliban taking control, and that he no longer had communication with his followers. At the same time, the official spokesman of Al-Qaida has stated that they have been supplying fighters to Chechnya. It seems that they are active not only in Chechnya, but have worried the other Central Asian republics, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and even Iran. They are certainly turning up in Kashmir, which is one of the important flash points in the world. In mid-December 1999 the Jordanian police arrested members of a cell planning attacks against western tourists. This cell was linked to Usama bin Laden. On 14 December 1999 Customs agents arrested an Algerian national smuggling almost 50 pounds of explosive materials and detonating devices into the United States. The other Algerians subsequently arrested in connection with this plot apparently were "Afghan alumni," trained with the mujahedin in Afghanistan and also linked to Usama bin Laden.

In testimony 02 February 2000 before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, George Tenet said Usama Bin Ladin "is still foremost" among terrorists planning attacks against the United States and that more than half of 24 terrorists brought to justice since July 1998 "were associates" of Bin Ladin's Al-Qa'ida organization. He said that despite some disruptions, U.S. intelligence officials believe Bin Ladin could strike without warning, and that the terrorist -- along with others -- is "placing increased emphasis on developing surrogates to carry out attacks in an effort to avoid detection."

The United States on 08 May 2000 indicted two Egyptians being held in London for the deadly bombing of United States embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, in August 1998, which resulted in more than 200 deaths and more than 4,000 injuries. The US indictment was filed in New York City and superceded a previous indictment related to the bombing. The indictment brought to 17 the total number of persons charged, six of whom are in custody in the United States and three in the United Kingdom.

Sources and Resources

Mujahid Usamah Bin Ladin Talks Exclusively to "NIDA'UL ISLAM" About The New Powder Keg in The
Middle East Nida'ul Islam Magazine (Call of Islam) October - November 1996
Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders World Islamic Front Statement 23 February 1998
MIDDLE EAST and SOUTH ASIA PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman June 12, 1998
"Alleged Extremist Plans To Destabilize Gulf" FBIS-NES-95-092 : 10 Feb 1995 [Source: Paris
AL-WATAN AL-'ARABI , 10 Feb 95 pp 14-16]
"Story of Attempt to Assassinate Ibn Ladn in Jalalabad" by Jihad Salim al-Watan al-'Arabi, 18 Apr 97 pp
22-23 [Saudi Arabia: Threat to Islamic Activist's Life Seen FBIS-NES-97-092 18 Apr 1997]

-- Free (Lance@Research.Service), September 30, 2001.

Certainly, bin Laden's reach is far and wide, Free, but do you really think that HIS head on a stick will solve anything? The organization he began has spread FAR beyond Afghanistan [or even his wildest dreams.]

Does anyone here ever read Debka?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 30, 2001.

You said that to blame bin Laden for the attacks was "premature." According to the information above, it was not premature. One might safely conclude that the intelligence services have even more information, to which we are not privy. Sharing with the general public such information would reveal too much about and compromise its sources.

Yes, the reach of bin Laden's organization is great, which information has been widely disseminated. I believe the figure of 60 countries was mentioned by the president very early on. To cut off the organization's head will achieve only partial success, as has been stressed by various and sundry of the president's advisors. Actions to staunch the flow of financial aid are assisting in shriveling some of the tentacles; arrests of numerous suspects in a large number of countries also add to the dehydration. Eliminating bin Laden is only one of many numerous ongoing operations, some of which we know, more of which we can only guess.

Yes, I have read Debka but it is only one of my innumerable sources.

-- Free (Lance@Research.Service), September 30, 2001.

Free: I appreciate your participation in this thread. I didn't see anything in what YOU posted to indicate that bin Laden [personally] had commanded the attack on the WTC/Pentagon. However, I might be picking nits in that statement. It's pretty hard not to admit that just about every terrorist group in the Middle East hasn't at least been "touched" by his philosophy through the years.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 30, 2001.

Do you folks buy DEBKA or is there a way to access if for free?

-- (Roland@hatemail.com), September 30, 2001.

Roland: I can't speak for "Free" or Lars, but I only reference the web-page [which is free.] It's a slow load, so I click on it, make a sandwich, pour out a glass of milk, go to the bathroom, wash my hands, and then click down on the page. YMMV.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 30, 2001.

I think they want to charge you for the "good stuff".

-- (Roland@hatemail.com), September 30, 2001.