Cross Application Meds

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Does anyone know which animal meds are actually "ok" for human use? And are dosages the same per hundred weight as it were? I'm talking about antibiotics mostly, and tetanus as well, but anything in general would be helpful. Thanks!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 24, 2001

Answers

Basically you dose a human with the equivalent of the same weighted pig, LOL.

I don't know about tetanus but most of the 'cillin's are about the same and so are the cyclins. There were some really good books listed during the y2k crisis on emergency medical stuff and I believe they were also advertised in countryside. The name of the author escapes me at this moment.

-- Stephanie Nosacek (possumliving@go.com), September 24, 2001.


Get hold of a recent PDR as that will give you not only dosages but a feel for which drugs cannot be taken together or under what circumstances they are not likely to be effective. You can then calculate the size of dose needed for humans by reading the concentration on the bottle in hand. While I do not reccommend self medication, in case of a national emergency this may be the only course you have to take. Also note that on some medications the pediatric and or geriatric dose may differ from the standard adult dose. By the way, conversely, the pediatric dose is often the dosage used for treating small animals (dogs and cats)--often but not always as there is some specie variability occassionally that has to be accounted for. If in doubt ask if you can.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin@starband.net), September 24, 2001.

What is a PDR? I would love to know more about this subject too, just in case we ever needed it (worse case). Where do you all buy your animal meds? I have seen a few listed in a poultry magazine, but they do not have the pig stuff. Do you go to co-ops? Country stores? Thanks!

-- notnow (notnow05@yahoo.com), September 24, 2001.

PDR stands for Physicians Desk Reference. You should be able to get them at any book store, or online. Also a Merck's medical manual is very valuable!! Around here, you can get most meds you need for livestock from the local feed and seed.

-- Uncle Jake (lulafred@cs.com), September 24, 2001.

From an animal to human aspect, be VERY CAREFUL..the concentrations may be different..also there are certain meds in which you cannot double a dose..for example, if you have capsules of 250mgms and you need 500mgms, you cannot give 2 capsules...I am having such a senior moment right now I cannot recall which ones those are!!!!! Egad! I've been doing this for longer than some of you have been alive and my brain is empty tonight! Sigh...the PDR is also available in CD format..I have one...somewhere...maybe it's good that I "retired" LOL....It also occurs to me that I read in a journal somewhere years ago that the standards of manufacturing are different (less strict) for vet meds......I think I'll go to bed now..maybe I'll remember more tomorrow!

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), September 25, 2001.


While that may have been true years ago, it is not true today. The drugs are the same, but the concentration may vary from the human label bottle especially in the case of meds meant for large animals. You will have to learn to do ratios in order to calculate the correct dosage in many cases. Quite often veterinarians order drugs for pets from the same wholesale pharmacies that the drug store pharmacist does and have to calculate dosages for very small pets as the labels for children do not often list volumes small enough for very tiny pets.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin@starband.net), September 25, 2001.

Thanks for your help. I have a Merck's but no PDR. Guess I'll have a look for one at the resale places here. At least I know how to do ratios! A long time ago when I had a million revolving roomates and we were all poorer than poor one girl got really ill and we gave her ampicillin that was for my dog. She got better then relapsed and went to the doctor..the doctor was very upset over her using that ampicillin. I am talking about "have to" scenarios here anyway! Thanks again.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 25, 2001.

PDR's are very expensive, so do see if you can find a used one -- even if it is a few years old, it should have everything you need in it, all but the very newest meds out, and you aren't likely to have access to those anyway. Or, if you know a doctor or medical person, sometimes they have to update and maybe you could talk them out of their old one.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 25, 2001.

Do It Yourself Medicine by Ragnar Benson is the book I was trying to remember....

Amazon.com has it.

-- Stephanie Nosacek (possumliving@go.com), September 25, 2001.


At least I can say this with authority: never, ever give someone an antibiotic which has not been prescribed for them. Most folks think that antibiotics kill bacteria outright. While a very few do this, most work by enclosing each bacteria cell in a kind of biological barrier so the cell cannot reproduce. The bacteria dies from old age. This is why an antibiotic is taken for a full course, so that all the bacteria are gone in X number of days. When a person has been partially treated with an antibiotic, it skews the data, because some of the germs will be diminshed in number..just enough to make the white blood cell count be "iffy", so it becomes very difficult to be accurate when diagnosing and treating. Don't feel badly Doreen, alot of folks do it....take strep throat for instance....a person has a sore throat and fever so they jump the gun and take 48 hours worth of somebody else's amoxicillin..then the third day they still have a sore throat and come in my office..sigh...they could just have a virus, but they easily could have strep..good luck to me to figure out which since the symptoms and the bloodwork are all going to be suspect...most of us will go ahead and continue the antibiotic, whether you need it or not because it is better to err on the side of strep than to let it go untreated..also, partial treatments with antibiotics contribute to germs becomming resistant to them. Spoke with a buddy of mine regarding using vet drugs for people and vice versa..he agreed that the concentrations are different..can be done, but you must be very careful and know what you are doing. Even over the counter drugs can be hazardous for some folks..e'g.only acetaminophen should be used for pain relief for a new sprain or fracture because ibuprophen and aspirin can cause excess bleeding.I guess I'm trying to say that unless you have some extensive education in medicine or related fields, you probably ought to stick to the experts. God bless.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), September 25, 2001.


Normally I would agree with you, Lesley, but after doing a whole lot more research on the biological warfare question, I think we ALL need to stock up on tetracycline and be prepared to use it. It seems to be the treatment of choice for *most* of what is probably in the terrorists arsenal, and it will keep for a while refrigerated. The thing is that treatment of the biological agents is only useful BEFORE people start showing symptoms. There have been a few exercises concerning the possibility of biological agents being used and they all broke down in chaos very quickly. What the authorities are saying (the few who are willing to say anything at all) is that if it comes to chemical or biological attack, we are going to be on our own, the infrastucture isn't going to be able to help us. And the other thing they are saying is that it isn't IF, it's WHEN. The idea of masks to prevent infection is good, except that we probably won't know we are being exposed in time to use them. That leaves trying to control the damage after it's been done. And that leaves tetracycline. Maybe stock it and ask a nurse or doctor friend to administer it if you are really squeamish, but what we are talking about would be a major emergency and the medical personal may not be available. I happen to live right across the road from my family doctor, but in that kind of emergency I wouldn't count on her being home! Certainly if anyone does stock antibiotics, they will need to use them judiciously, making sure they are really needed. But, as I said, the consensus of the experts is that if symptoms are present it's too late for antibiotics to do any good. (And if we don't need them for our families, most of us have livestock and can use them for what they were intended for! Should get enough for at least some of the stock anyway, because otherwise they may all get anthrax and die.) Lesley, and any others who have medical backgrounds, it would be really helpful if you would review the research and reports on biological and chemical warfare and give us the benefit of your knowledge and training. Thank you.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 25, 2001.

At times like this I wish I lived in Mexico. Might be worth a trip across the border though.

Little bit farm

-- Little bit farm (littleBit@compworldnet.com), September 25, 2001.


I asked this question and I was feeling fine. This afternoon I started feeling sick...bad. Fever, dizzy, weak. I haven't been sick except for a few stomach dealees in a longish time.

Kathleen, I really appreciate your suggestion regarding the medical folks. Thanks everyone for your tips.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 25, 2001.


Tetracycline comes in either 250 or 500mgms capsules and there is some in injectable form..not used hardly at all in humans..is TCN available over the counter for livestock? If so, no problem..if not, how are you going to "stock up " on it? The usual dose for TCN for an adult is 500mgms three times a day for 7 to 10 days depending upon what is causing the infection. TCN cannot be given to kids under 12 because it stains their teeth very badly. I'll be happy to search the medical sites which I frequent on the internet regarding biological warfare info....chemical is not truly a medical issue for civilians, so there will probably not be much available, even on the med sites..that's a sub-specialty of forensic chemists and military research chemists, but I'll see. Smallpox was virtually eliminated from the world in the 60's and pronounced "gone" in 1970. It has no carrier in nature except man. The CDC and other places have kept cultures in order to make vaccines again should terrorists get ahold of the bacteria. One thought which was mentioned a million years ago when I was in school was that someday, some country hostile to the US would sell the bacteria for big bucks to a third world country to be used against us. Food for thought.....I'll look around and let you guys know what the docs are saying...

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), September 25, 2001.

Jeffers has oxytetracycline, would that work?

-- Cathy in NY (hrnofplnty@yahoo.com), September 26, 2001.


I think it is a great idea to get some and ask the doctor you see for the problem if it would work in your case. I would rather have some on hand, just in case, and you can alway donate it to your doctor if you do not get sick and there are people that could benefit from it. I would probably be too worried about the measurements, so I would find a medical person anyway.

-- notnow (notnow05@yahoo.com), September 26, 2001.

I saw an old photo on the news the other day of a child with smallpox, and thought, this I do not want!! Isn't it true that it would take too long to make the antidotes? Is there anything else that would be helpful against something like that?...And what kinds of things is tetracycline effective for?

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), September 26, 2001.

The small pox vaccine was created from blood from someone who survived it.

-- stephanie (possumliving@go.com), September 26, 2001.

There are a number of antibiotics available from Jeffer's. Procaine Penicillin G, Oxy TCN (as mentioned), eromycin, and a bunch more, I will have to look and see what else.

Did they stop vaccinating for small pox in '71? Also on the ""duh" end of things, everyone else my age and older has this circular scar from vaccinations and I don't know what that was for...I think it was for polio, but don't know for certain. Any ideas?

One thing I have determined for myself is that there is no way I am going to start running around with a gas mask and chemical suit on. I just can't go there! It would certainly be quite the fashion statement at the local Wally World....particularly if it were customized with a nice metallic urban camo silver...;}.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 26, 2001.


Doreen, are you feeling better? Everyone at work (not me) and many of our customers have sore throats, achey joints, fever, etc. I was getting a bit worried......

-- Cathy (hrnofplnty@yahoo.com), September 27, 2001.

Thanks for asking,Cathy. I am still feeling kind of weak, and periodically have like whooshes of fever, but better than I was! There was an article in our paper saying that several strains of flu were going around. I didn't read it, but my friend, who has a sore throat and cough, was telling me about it. I'm eating tons of C, ;}.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 27, 2001.

okay, i know this one;) the circular scar on your arm is from your smallpox vaccination(which, I'm hearing, is unfortunately no longer good)..if you got the 'sugar cubes' as a kid, those were the polio vaccinations..my children got polio vaccine in an oral liquid, i think they are doing shots for it now.

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), September 27, 2001.

I wonder how they know that our old smallpox vaccinations are no longer any good? Anyone know the answer to that?

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 27, 2001.

Speculation?

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), September 27, 2001.

Sure. Everyone I know EXCEPT me has that scar!!!lol. That's okay. Now as to why it wouldn't be any good...perhaps genetic modification of the virus? I really have no idea, just a thought.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 27, 2001.

That just means you're younger than the rest of us;)

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), September 27, 2001.

If I remember correctly they are now giving the first polio as a shot then the rest oral .It is safer for the babies.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), September 28, 2001.

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