I have been reading about the strong likelihood that Osama bin Laden has biological weapons like anthrax, smallpox, etc. and that the US does not have nearly enough vaccine for these diseases if they were somehow "dropped on us" (or released by terrorists who are already here). Not to mention chemical weapons like nerve gas, etc. I don't even know what all of the possibilities are. To me, these things are more scary than hijackings, bombings, etc. because they would spread so easily and kill so many more people. Is anyone else worried about this? Is there anything to do to prepare in the event that something like this happens? I don't know what one could do........I guess nothing, except worry! I've read on other boards about people buying gas masks and such.

This article was on my Compuserve start page today: "Truly, This Would Be the Worst Academic experts who spend their time wondering about horrible "what if" scenarios are issuing a dire warning that no one wants to think about: chemical warfare. There is growing concern that the United States is ill-equipped to handle a terrorist attack involving disease-causing micro-organisms or lethal chemicals. "In a worst-case scenario, a biological attack could be considered the most horrible of all in terms of a hostile effort against a population," Leonard Cole of Rutgers University in Newark, New Jersey, told Reuters. Such an attack would have a domino effect; theoretically, everyone who becomes infected with a micro-organism, such as smallpox or anthrax, could then infect others. Each infected person becomes a biological weapon. And America isn't prepared to handle this.

"At this point, we're woefully short on vaccines and antibiotics. The public health infrastructure is but a shell of what it needs to be able to respond," Michael Osterholm, director of the University of Minnesota's Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, told Reuters. Such an attack might occur as a low-flying and slow-moving small plane drops mist or powder over a densely populated area. The terrorists may not even announce they have done it, opting instead to just wait for people to get sick and unknowingly spread the germs to others. "We're unprepared. I'm not going to lie and say that we would handle it well," said Frank Cilluffo of the Center for Strategic and International Studies."

What do y'all think?

-- Tracey (trjlanier@cs.com), September 18, 2001

Answers

Dear Tracey, I don"t know how old you are, but when we were given our small pox vaccine, they said at that time it was for life, I"m 71. and had a second one, and it didn"t take, so was still alright. As for all the other stuff, I heard on short wave that MILes silver protein kills bacteria in the body, Go to americanfreedomnews.com and scroll down and there is a ad, maybe not everyday, but every once in a while. I really don"t know if it is snake oil or not. I bought 3 bottles, I know they used it back before antibiotics, when I was a kid. all the Docs used it then. I had a terrible chest broncitis, and it sure did a number on it. I mean real fast. about 4 days. all most all cleared up now. I really don"t know if it would handle something like amthrax. I am not sure there would be any thing any of us could do in that type of warfare.God Bless Irene

-- Irene texas (tkorsborn@cs.com), September 18, 2001.

Heard on a news program last night that when the FBI was searching the homes of the terrorists, they found information indicating alternative targets and methods of attack if the ones carried out last Tuesday didn't work, but that they were not releasing any information on what/where these targets were or the alternate methods of attack. Seems to me that they've released every other little detail they've been able to uncover, but this important one, they're sitting on. Maybe because it does involve chemical and/or biological warfare and they're scrambling around trying to figure out what to do. The analogy we heard was that in the case of biological warfare, it's like the spokes in a wheel. Every infected person goes further in a different direction and it keeps going..... In any case, we're sitting tight here in Cent. Wisc., avoiding crowds, not going anywhere we can't walk home from and keeping stocked up like we usually do. Only thing different is: I Wonder if I can get gas masks at Sams or WalMart? and I am going to take some advice from my 64 year old Mother and add some really good food and drink to my larder, not just the usual staples. No need to be miserable if we're holed up together for a long time, and like she says, we might as well go happy!

-- Rose Marie Wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.

Irene, I'm 28 years old, born in 1972. I read that they stopped vaccinating people in 1971, so I guess I've never had the vaccine. As for the gas masks, I've read that they really wouldn't help (even if you did have one) because the chemicals are absorbed through the skin, and would contaminate our food/water/everything else that it touches. I guess it is so scary to me because if ***I*** was a terrorist, this would be the thing to do, because it would be relatively easy (easier than hijacking a plane) and kill more people in the long run. I guess I worry about this more because I worked in a microbiology lab in college and just taking microbiology classes and seeing those pictures of what these germs can do ~ it's horrible. And I have a 2- year-old son and I just keep thinking about him, and what kind of world he is living in and what kind of worries his generation will face.

-- Tracey (trjlanier@cs.com), September 18, 2001.

My memory is sooo poor, but believe it was anthrax that was exposed years ago to innocent folks on a train, subway or something??? Government covered it up back then. Think I seen this on a geographic, discovery type tv show or such?? Any body remember what I'm talking about? They discussed then how unprepared we are in the event of a chemical warfare of any kind.

Guess before I'd make myself crazier than I am already I'll just find peace in knowing I sure wouldn't want to be the last of mankind, just pray I'd go before my kiddo's and grandkidd'os do. Can't picture seeing the suffering.

Debb

-- Debb LA/MS (fly45@bellsouth.net), September 18, 2001.

I still have a limited supply of new gas masks. Not sure if we can get any more past what's on its way now. Supplies drying up. Our former President regulated these imports and also the sale of military surplus a couple of years ago. There's been a big demand this past week and most sources are sold out or getting there quick. If I can acquire a good amount in the next few weeks, I'll post a considerable discount for Countrysiders. Email me for quantity discounts.

GAS MASKS

-- DSWW (user1000@LA.com), September 18, 2001.

I don't know how prepared we are, but I have been doing some research on the possibility (probability?). For whatever grain of comfort it may provide, here are some things I learned. First, our water supplies are less likely to be targets because the filtering systems are sufficiently effective to render that means of attack less efficient in terms of people killed. They are more likely to use some type of aerosol dispersion. *Some* of the chemicals most likely to be used can be protected against by simply washing thoroughly with soap and water after contact. I would say, *very* thoroughly. The ones that are absorbed quickly on contact require special suits which, of course, most of us don't have access to. And a few require gas masks, which we would be well-advised to acquire. *Most* of the biologicals likely to be used are live germs such as anthrax -- this is a nasty disease, but the live germs can be protected against with a simple face mask such as those sold in hardware stores. If you can order hospital masks (the tight ones, not the ones surgeons wear in the OR) those would work, too. The biologicals that absorb on contact are toxins, not live germs; they are very dangerous but don't spread like germs do and are harder and more expensive to make, so the *experts* think they are less likely to be used. My husband has a 1992 copy of the Army survival manual which addresses the issues of chemical and biological weapons (and nuclear). It emphasizes good hygiene, preventing flea and mosquito bites (as these can be used as deliberate disease vectors), and, in event of an attack, using only sealed food and water supplies.

Hope this helps.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 18, 2001.

Hi Tracey,

I responded to a thread a while back about the same thing and everyone thought I was crazy and just gloom and doom! If people did the research they would find that it is not a matter of "if" this will all happen, but "when" it will happen. I guess it is just so scary that everyone just wants to hide thier heads and pretend it can't happen to us. Those thousands of people sitting at thier desks a week ago never thought an airplane would land in thier building either. No one ever thought the WTC would collapse either. No one thought the Pentagon could be penetrated either. We are being to see the unthinkable and unprobable happen right before our eyes.

I don't think we should all become survivalist, but being prepared is something else. Gez, everyone was ready for Y2K, that will be nothing compared to a biological/chemical war or terrorist attack. Y2K was really out there and no one thought anything of it. Biological/chemical attack has a zillion times higher chance of any Y2K threat. Our own government admits to the probability of an attack and there not being enough antidotes for it.

So, I guess the question is how can you get prepared? I took a class a while back called "How to Survive a Disaster". They touched on biological/chemical disaster and some the things to have on hand where a very good supply of first aid equipment, lots of bleach (it is an immediate antidote for alot of biological weapons), 2 gas masks for each memember of your family, extra filters, etc., large supply of fresh water, and the usual other items. Also, if contamination occures we will be in the situation we feared in Y2K. Banks, businesses, etc. will be shut down. People will be confined to thier own homes, etc. We will be virtually on our own. One good thing they also brought out that is a good idea in any disaster is to have a family meeting place away from your home should you be at work, children at school, etc. and you can't get to your home. That way everyone in the family knows to go to another place and meet there. That way you would also know if someone in your family was in trouble. They also suggest a backpack filled with items in case you would have to vacate your home in a hurry for some reason.

Ok, so maybe the forgoing is going a bit far fetched, but something to think about. Look at this way, if you are prepared and nothing happens..so what? But what if something happens and you are NOT prepared??????? We have a mind and the ability to be prepared, if we are not it is our own faults when the unthinkable happens.

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.

As one person earlier in this thread said its not if but when we either are attacked with chemical and or germ weapons. The germ weapons are cheap and easly dispersed. I would not be surppised if there are not cells here now with the means of germ warfare. The germs would spread on their own. released in a airport or large city they would spread across the US like a wind. Chemical and here I think it would be nerve gas It would only spread so far and then would be so low in content it would not kill. I am 60 years old and have a smallpox vaxcine scar on my left arm like all of my age, on my right arm I have another from being sent to a part of the world that no one should go, and another one on my left shoulder from working in the communicable disease center in Atlanta in the 1970's where I could have come in contact with small pox virus. In short smallpox vaxcine is not good for life. As for other germ or bacteria civilians will have to do the best they can. Stay out of crowds, sure how in the world can you do that. As for nerve gas, even the army expects to loose a large percentage of their troops even with training and the best of equipment. With most types of nerve gas even if you don't breath it getting it on your skin is fatal. For the people that happen to be in direct contact with nerve gas there is really no defense. Like they told us when training for possible exposer If exposed use the three minutes getting right with your maker. It scares the hell out of me.

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), September 18, 2001.

Hi Karen, this might seem like a dumb question, but could you explain more about the uses of bleach? Thanks!

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 18, 2001.

someone once said,and wisely so, i think, "Worry is not preparation"

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.

To follow up to Tracey's post quoting Osterholm, I heard on the news today that Ashcroft was warning crop dusters to be extra vigilant of their equipment and planes. Maybe that was some of their backup plan? Instead of Sevin dust us, Serin dust us? Very unsettling!

Irene...the silver colloidal or whatever stuff can permanently turn your skin silvery gray if too much is ingested. I used to think the colloidal silver thing was pretty neat and bought a bottle, then ran across that weird but true little factoid. I can try to dig up that website if you want. Maybe the protein kind is different and doesn't have that side effect.

-- Susan (smtroxel@socket.net), September 18, 2001.

On one of the Tulsa news station they interveiwed a owner of a army surplus store. The owner said that gas masks are in high demand this week and that they have already sold out and not sure if they will be able to get anymore.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), September 18, 2001.

How do you know what size to get for a child?

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

geez, please don't think i don't take this seriously, but i just can't worry about this stuff. i am "prepared" as well as i can be all the time, will put some extra effort into getting more done this year (we were going to build a good greenhouse in a few years, but are putting a temporary one up now for the spring, etc.), have extra beans and rice on hand, have begun my "gun lessons" with a friend (so I can eventually hunt, but we were going to do this anyway). but this germ stuff? i just can't go there. if it got that hideous and everything was so terribly polluted and folks were dropping dead, i',m not sure i'd want to be around to watch. sometimes the lucky ones are the ones who aren't around to suffer in the aftermath, don't you think?

and they say if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger.

lastly, as a speculation, with all the different religious beliefs out there, shouldn't there be some consideration that it will all be fine ultimately? most religions believe in a wonderful afterlife better than this one, pagans/hindus/buddists believe in reincarnation for spiritual growth (and eventually a heaven), and it seems to me the only ones who should be really worried are the atheists. at least the agnostics admit to not knowing, so that means maybe there is something better eventually...

i'm feeling pretty pollyanna today. i'm sorry. maybe it is a reaction to all the stress lately, but i've been focusing on a "blessing for my enemies" (an old orthodox prayer) and that has really been putting it in perspective for me the last few days.

and, of course, this is easy for me to say living out in the middle of no where, with no big cities around. but then when i lived in a city i was scared, and assumed this would eventually happen, and just wanted to get out before it did. so, i guess this is me being calmish since i am away. if i was in the town i used to live in i would be a FREAK and i kept telling my husband that before. "I NEED the silence of the country, I need beautiful scenery, nature and animals, I need to homestead...and if anything DOES happen, you won't be able to live with me in town. I'll be a wreck"

but i send my love, thoughts and prayers to folks in towns and cities with more fears. and to everyone in the world who will suffer through this with us.

and remember, no one is "safe"...what they do one place effects everyone.

-- marcee king (thathope@mwt.net), September 18, 2001.

A note about colloidal silver. The anecdote about the 'blue lady' has been around for ages; its the only one the establishment has to try to convince people once again that inexpensive, natural substances are ineffective and harmful. You can make your own decisions of course, but my family has been using silver in place of antibiotics for many years, and it works great, and I can assure you we don't have blue/grey skin. Do you own research, buyer beware, cuz there are rip-offs out there of course. Make sure the manufacturer/distributor gives a money-back guarantee, and guarantees the potentcy. If you want more info, email me.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.

Tracy, if you're really worried about smallpox and anthrax, you could make an appointment with your local M.D. for a smallpox innoculation. For the anthrax, go to your local animal supply house and buy a 5 lb. can of Tetracycline. If this is the strain of Anthrax that WE GAVE TO THE ARABS then it will be sensitive to this. The dose is 10 ml per pound per day. If you've been exposed, I seem to remember that you have a 16 hr. window to start treatment. A good friend told me today that he suspects the next attack may not be biological, but our power grid, which would be easy to knock out. Just prepare as best you can, and be calm.

-- Judy in IN (whileaway3@cs.com), September 19, 2001.

Gas mask are not the answer to biological attachs. Gas mask are to allow escape from an area. While most modern mask will keep out some virus, gas and radio active contaiminants it not practical for everyday use. Virus attach will last for long periods of time, You really cant live in a gas mask. While some do have connections for canteens, there is no way to eat. Mask are also hard to find in the US that are any good. The WWII stuff is junk and un suitable, the vietnam era mask are usally in bad shape and worthless. The Israeli mask are good, but are hard to find in children sizes, not to mention how hard it would be to keep a child in one. You must be clean shaven to make them seal well.

-- Gary (gws@redbird.net), September 19, 2001.

Judy ~ I didn't think you could just go to the doc and ask for smallpox vaccine....I mean I don't think they just have it sitting around on a shelf waiting. I thought I read that most of the vaccine had been disposed of after smallpox had been eradicated. Does anyone know? Is it possible to get vaccinated just by going to the doctor and asking? Also, how young can you be and get the vaccine (son is 2)? Thanks

-- Tracey (trjlanier@cs.com), September 19, 2001.

Your family doctor can get just about any vaccine out there, he/she may have to order it for you, but it's there. Folks are still advised to get all inoculations before extended travel in true third world status countries.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), September 19, 2001.

I'm worried. I've been worried since it was clear what was going on last Tuesday. I've just been to the CDC site, reading about smallpox. Very scary. For anyone who's interested it's at:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol5no4/henderson.htm

-- Rheba (rhebabeall@hotmail.com), September 19, 2001.

You can have my vacine shot because the Bible tells me that no weapon formed against me will prosper. so I wont need it. and if i die it also says to die is gain. dale Hope this doesnt make you mad just offering my dose.

-- dale (dgarr@fidnet.com), September 19, 2001.

Dale are you a snakehandler!? Cool :) No, really I mean it, I'm not trying to be rude. I recall seeing a video of this sect of Christianity in the mountains of West Virginia for an Appalachian studies course and was totally fascinated. They sure put their money where their mouth is.

-- Susan (smtroxel@socket.net), September 19, 2001.

Doesn't the health dept. have all the vaccines? Can you go there to get the "overseas travelers" vaccines? Our missionaries in our church do before they venture overseas. Jennifer

-- Jennifer (none@none.com), September 20, 2001.

Susan- the snakehandlers were all over Appalachia, not just W.V. but it is prohibited-there was a case in KY about a year ago where folks were jailed also, several cases where people were seriosly ill, one even died-Although I grew up in this area and well yes knew people who did this I don't agree with this theology at all, there are thousands of ways to put your religion on the line besides tempting God to take you out.

But I agree (more or less) with Dale and others who say I don't believe God will allow such widespread death and destruction-trully there is much evil let loose allready, but lets look at this-they are now saying there were 6 planes targeted for hijacking, only three got through. Of the 20,000 people in the towers 15000 got out alive, its not unuasual for there to be 100000 people pass through those doors in a day. The plane hit the Pentagon where it would lose the least amount of human lives. Yes, this was a terrable tragidy, and perhaps a wakeup call for us all that this evil is in the world-but look how people rallied to help each other! Look how many people were in church this week that had not set foot in church in years! We should prepare, by all means but I believe ultimantly its in Gods hand. I will put up applesause-I will not run out and buy a gas mask. I trully don't mean to offend anyone-just venting some anxiety like everyone else.

-- Kelly from Appalachia (markelly@scrtc.com), September 20, 2001.

Yes! I belong to a group that relies on Therapeutic Grade Essential Oils iinstead of "medicine". I’ve been using pure therapeutic grade essential oils for several years. We were recently advised to pick up some of the “dust masks” in bulk and use a drop of pure therapeutic grade essential oil as a precaution against airborne biological pathogens. I use these oils daily for HRT, burns, insect bites, muscle pain, sprained ankle, allergies, sinus infections, arthritis, headaches, flimsy nails and limp hair, and even the virus that’s been going around recently…..just about everything I can think of! A special on 48 Hours this week talked about anthrax—tasteless, smell- less, colorless and death within 36 hours. Because I use at least one EO every day, I feel much more protected.

Essential Oils contain virtually all of healing nutrients-- oxygenating molecules, amino acid precursors, coenzyme A factors, trace minerals, enzymes, vitamins, hormones and more. Dr. Jean Valnet, a well known French medical researcher points out that an essential oil literally destroys the anthrax bacillus, the glanders bacillus, staphylococcus, the diptheria bacillus, meningococcus, and Kock's bacillus, which is the bacteria responsible for tuberculous lesions. Dr. Valnet adds that the works of Morel and Rochaix have demonstrated the vapors of another essential oil alone will neutralize the typhus bacillus and staphylococcus in only five minutes and the diphtheric bacillus in just twenty minutes. Moreover, infectious pathogens have yet to find a way to become resistant to essential oils, as they do with antibiotics. Recent testing in the U.S. has shown that a combination of essential oils of are even more powerful than penicillin.

-- julie Corbitt (corbitt@molalla.net), September 20, 2001.

I agree with "Earthmamma" about the Colloidal Silver. I have also been using it for years. I have my own generator so make it myself, also give it to my cats, dogs, chickens, and ducks.

-- Duffy (hazelm@tenforward.com), September 20, 2001.

I was just forwarded a letter from the Fla. st dept of ag warning farmers and feed stores, etc about possible threats to our livestock. If anyone is interested please e-mail me and I will forward the letter.

Looks like we will ahve to be cautious in who we allow onto our dairy farm. Geeze, never thought this day would come. Bernice

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.

Would the users of Colloidal Silver be willing to share their experiences with it? Things like generating as opposed to buying it, uses of it, etc? Maybe start a new thread on it?

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), September 20, 2001.

When I went to Haiti last year I updated all my vacinations at our local health department. I called and made an appointment and went in a couple days later.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.

I dont like spiders and snakes. What I meant is that I will believe in God for my protection. How you got snake handling out of that Ill never understand. dale

-- dale (dgarr@fidnet.com), September 20, 2001.