If you are a Manchester United supporter in Newcastle on match day do not expect to be treated with the same respect as joe public. How is it possible that a line of police can stop you going into a pub in the city centre (O'Neils)until they search you, ask you your name and address, demand to see your ticket and then when they let you in ....they DO NOT let you out? How is it that you can stand two feet in front of the thin blue line and be a free man, able to do what you want when you want where you want but but when you go beyond that line into a public house you immediately become imprisoned and your forfeit all your rights?

For all you locals you are aware of the distance between SJP and O'Neils. How long would you say it takes to walk it?...Not more than 15 mins on one leg correct? So...how is it the police drag us out of the pub they held us in against our will, at 14:15 and march us to to the ground so that we finally get in at 15:15? AN HOUR to go 1/4 mile. Bastards.

Not a dig at Northumbria OB or whatever they are....this is a natioanl disease when United are in town.

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

Answers

After the bother last year they probably felt that you (well perhaps not you but you do look a bit shifty)were a risk to the citizens of our great city.

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

I'm with you 100% on this LR. The attitude of the police and ground stewards towards football fans in general and "away" fans in particular is a bloody disgrace. An acquaintaince of mine and his girl friend were searched by some fine unpstanding members of the Metropolitan Police Force yesterday at QPR. His offence? He'd lit a cigarette! The boys in blue claimed it was a roll up (which it wasn't it was a Sovreign) and searched the pair of them for the rest of the "stuff". As a result of this he missed some of the match and didn't see his team's only goal in a miserable performance.

I have been to watch 3 Port Vale games this week, all away. On two occasions I sat with the home fans because the view from the away seats is so appalling. On neither occasion was I searched entering the ground. Yesterday in darkest Shepherds Bush, I had to walk through a line of big ugly stewards then had my bag searched before I could go to my seat. I am 50, 5 feet 1 inch is a slight over- estimate. What in God's name is this all about?

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

The problem is not the police nor the stewards but the so-called fans who have tried to use our national game to satisfy their sadistic and violent natures. It may seem ages ago, but one could go to a game without any threats, or violence or foul language. It is not the police who have usurped what you consider to be your civil liberties but the mindless hooligans who continue to pollute our game.

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

But it's so selective. In the past two games, I have seen two fans standing up to abuse the ref. In one case, the fan ended up with half the Northumberland police on him although he made a single (though loud) bit of abuse. In yesterday's game, this other bloke kept it up for half the match and no one said a word to him.

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

Floridian..you are so far off the mark I can't believe you have EVER been to a game. The problem IS the police and the stewards...but more the police. Instead of using 20 police to courdon off a pub and imprison folk who are NOT under arrest, are NOT suspects and have NOT committed a crime, why not "tail" the known faces. Anyone ITK realises that United's "firm" (and any other teams firm) would not be seen dead in a city centre bar with the "barmies".

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

LR, am I to take your comments seriously when you begin by suggesting that I have never been to a football game! I have more faith in the intelligence of the police than in yours if you believe that they knowingly and deliberately allow the thugs to roam at will and consciously molest the pure and innocent. It would seem to me that Sir A F's protestations of constantly being victimised permeate down to Man Utd supporters.

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

flo....take anything I say seriously at yer own peril but please don't try and tell me that I'm playing the victim for the sake of it. I'll await your response the first time it happens to you.

Last year at Leicester I was forced onto a Manchester bound train by the police. I didn't even go to the game by train!!!!!!!!!!

At Derby County last year when we got of the train we were immediately sussed as Manchester United fans and herded into a queue where we were then put on double decker buses to a pub on the city centre outskirts. Nice if that's what you wanted to do...not so nice if you wanted a stroll around town.

Everton away......forced march back to Lime St...halted every 15 mins then forced to wait 1/2 hour while the station is cleared...ended up missing the train. I could go on.

Done many aways with Manchester United fans have you?

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

Wish it were that simple Floridean. The police have a difficult job granted but it is undeniable that some officers have the habit of treating every football supporter as a hardcore troublemaker and handling them accordingly. This when to the most everyone else the difference is blindingly obvious. Last season a steward threatened to break my legs because he found a radio on me when I was searched (they weren't even banned). Another tried to confiscate my season- ticket because I mistakenly had tried using my old one, and at some games the riot-police seemed more 'up-for-it' than the hooligans. Granted this is the Netherlands but I don't recall it being that different in the UK (the West Midlands police in partic. had a terrible reputation). Can't think of many other public events when this sort of behaviour is regarded as good policing/stewarding.

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

The police performance at home to Boro last season was amazing. The police seemed totally drugged up, dogs barking, snapping at a kid in front of me, helipcopter hovering low, sirens wailing, police running trucheons raised along the SJP boulevard. It was very intoxicating and at 17 would have sucked me into wanting to see more.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Action and reaction: chicken and egg.

Everyone is partly right in this stuation. If footy violence had never existed, the Police wouldn't react the way they do. I'm not excusing the Police for treating all fans as potential hoolys, but I can understand it.

The sad reality is that football violence is still alive and well, and ready to erupt the moment the Police relax their constant vigil.

The abiding pity is that genuine fans like Lancaster Red, who want to enjoy genuine banter with the opposition fans, are prevented from doing so - precisely the behaviour that needs to be encouraged to begin to break down the barriers of hatred, and get things back on a sporting rivalry basis.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

The police refused me and my mates admission into O'Neills, as I was in my toon top, even though half my group were Man U supporters. They reckoned it was a pub where only away supporters were going to be allowed to drink. Anyway we went to the Stawberry no bother !

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

If the police presence had been low key , and a mass battle had broken out between Man u and NUFC fans, then what would have LR's today have been?

They are doing there best to keep the peace, they haven't got an easy job.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

We've had some fun with the police at Southampton outside the ground. They mostly seemed to be relaxed and sporting(see previous pics of us with a local sergeant, with Sting displaying a hard helmet...no, not that sort). Inside the ground tends to be worse.

LR - I don't think it's a Manc away fan problem. Recall the police riot squad steaming into our fans in Manchester before our Sheff Utd semi-final?

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Rik...I know that they have a job to do and it's not an easy one but ffs they MUST have better ideas than "round 'em all up...the public will understand"....

Like I've said to folk before...and my missus....wait till it happens to you.

Bobby..I know it's not just us but It's usually Manchester United that I travel to see :-)

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Rik....forgot my main point then...whoops :-)

We don't demand LOW KEY. We demand sensible policing. Like I said earlier..why take up 20 OB to imprison 200 reds when they could be partolling the town centre.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

On reflection, LR, do you think the police presence was for your own safety given your unpleasant experiences?

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Not a dig at Northumbria OB or whatever they are....this is a natioanl disease when United are in town.

I can't believe that no-one picked you up on that point LR. United are in town every other week in Newcastle.....

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

I just wish they'd get rid of their "FRIENDLY" alsations. they scare me shitless.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

hahahah..hey Bobby..had you seen the "calibre" of supporter in O'Neils you would not be asking that question.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

They were drinking Kaliber? It's a wonder the police didn't call for ARVs! Mate, if you imply there were some moan Us there with a 'reputation' then what are you complaining about? :-)

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

I knew you would see it that way. Sorry I gave the wrong imprerssion. There were a couple of hundred blokes in there. Not hoolies...but not young boys, girls, families or elders....BLOKES. You know the type.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

You see, if you all wore club merchandise and went around stinking of hot polyester like us lot then you'd be fine. It's all this furtive sneaking about in civvies sporting dodgy beards that gets you moved along ;-)

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

You don't realise how close to the truth that is J.

I've shaved.....not-a-lot...but I still shaved :-)

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

You're not a part-time male stripper too?

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

hee hee...I do have smooth nads funnily enough :-)

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

That's more information than anyone wanted to know...

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Dunno...I found it quite interesting...

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Gav..you sir are a perv of the highest order. I bow down to your dirtyness :-)

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

We had enough of that last Thursday

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

It sounds like the pollis had earmarked O'neils as an away pup & you were going there if you liked it or not. In my expirience, the more you segregate, the more you get bother & the more a particular bar will get attacked.

I think it's more of a Manure thing although a saints friend of mine complained about being called a Makem by the lads in the boars head but he should have worn the away colours.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Once again, no doubt to his utter astonishment, I have to agree with everything LR says. What I cannot understand is, why is it OK to treat people like sh*t just because they happen to come from Manchester/Newcastle on a particular day? There are laws against treating people in such a manner if their skin colour is different. And this is NOT a racist comment - it is simply a fact. We rightly attempt to protect minorities when identified by skin colour but the police treat them appallingly when identified by shirt colour.

There are policemen who stereotype football fans as evil drunken morons. They must not be surprised if, sadly, some football fans stereotype the police as facist thugs.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Jacko,

I'm sure the problem for the Police is differentiating between genuine footy fans and who are mindless thugs who could cause serious aggro - they don't get a second chance, or a video replay.
I don't condone the Police going over the top in the way LR describes, but I can understand it and appreciate the difficuulties they face.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

IF this only happened with big clubs who take massive and possibly dodgy support I could understand it Clarky but it doesn't. As I said earlier, an acquaintance of mine was not only searched but strip searched by the police at QPR on Saturday. He had been smoking a cigarette which they claimed erroneously was a joint. It was in fact a Sovreign. This bloke was with his girlfriend - he was causing no trouble whatsoever. He was released because they found absolutely no evidence that he was in possession of any drugs at all. That to my mind was harrassment, pure and simple, and it is the sort of thing which brings the good name of the police force into disrepute and gives the lie to your argument about them not being able to tell the difference between thugs and law abiding citizens.

I am quite happy to have my bag searched (although I'm never searched when a "home" fan). I am quite happy to have a police presence on grounds (although the ratio of police to fans at some Vale away games recently has been bloody ridiculous). In many places the police can be friendly and pleasant. But you know and I know this is NOT always the case. The Met and West Midlands are particularly unpleasant with football fans. They seem to make up the rules as they go along. And I'm talking here about going to matches to see Port Vale when the away following is a few hundred at most and the club has absolutely no reputation for violence.

About fifteen years ago I was the Form Teacher of a group of 16 year olds about to set out into the big wide world. They were good kids - top band folk - excellent exam results. Every member of the form was chosen as a prefect by the staff except one. He was considered unsuitable. He became a policeman! I have never forgotten that.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001