I was just wondering why commercial aircraft aren't equipped with some kind of physical barrier to prevent access to the cockpit by anyone who doesn't belong there. Or if aircraft do have such barriers, why are they not employed.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), September 14, 2001

Answers

Israeli commercial aircraft have had double, high-integrity doors to the cockpit for sometime. I think they have air-marshals riding shotgun on each plane too.

I heard a troubling report last night. Now that commercial aviation is slowly re-starting, you'd think that security precautions at check-in would be considerably improved. According to this report, they are not.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 14, 2001.

David L:

I was just wondering why commercial aircraft aren't equipped with some kind of physical barrier to prevent access to the cockpit by anyone who doesn't belong there.

For me [maybe not you] there is such a barrier. It is called First Class. On some flights the snootiness there is better than double doors.

Lars; anyone who tries to determine what the changes in security mean at this point, just had space to fill in a paper or on TV. It will be in flux for a while. During the time my flight checked-in they had changed the rules. Of course, it is nice having all of the doggies in the ticketing areas. They will sit with you and let you pet them. :)

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), September 14, 2001.

doggies to sniff out druggs or to sniff out Arabs?

-- (Roland@hatemail.com), September 14, 2001.

Not to take this thread too off topic, but how do dogs sniff out bombs? I can understand drugs. They tend to be odorous, but is there a specific odor associated with wires and other stuff used in bomb-making?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 14, 2001.

Commercial airliners have locked doors to the cockpit but they are not bullet proof but they can be and should be. One or more armed marshalls should be on each flight and in my opinion should be incognito and identity only known by the crew. And lastly, at least one crew on the flight deck should be armed with a weapon. I just recieved a call from the FAA and was advised that I can continue flight operation on my Part 137 Applicators Cert. but all General Aviation flights across the Nation are still forbidden.

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), September 14, 2001.

So...what if there is some accident or health crises in the cockpit and someone NEEDS to get in there and take controls. Not likely but still possible.

-- (cin@cin.cin), September 14, 2001.

What happens if a bullet is fired in a pressurized cabin and punctures the wall of the plane? OK, the cabin depressurizes and oxygen masks drop down. Anything else?

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 14, 2001.

Lars:

That depends on a lot of factors, including the commericial airliner you are talking about. For the worst case scene, take a liter bottle of soda, carry it into a chamber with air pressure equivalent to 30 to 40,000 ft and punch a hole in it. You are an engineer and you understand that one can decrease weight by using internal air pressure to provide structural strength. Depends on the plane. Note, that I don't design planes, so I could be wrong.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), September 14, 2001.

So nobody knows how a dog can sniff out a bomb?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 14, 2001.

Anita:

Unlike my discussion of airplanes, I know the answer to your question; on a factual basis.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), September 14, 2001.

Thus spake Z, again. [Kindly wait for .wav file to download.]

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), September 14, 2001.

Nitrate compounds Anita. Tough to make an explosive w/o one. Pooch nose prowess allows them to be taught to sniff out just about anything.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), September 14, 2001.

Cool 2001 a space odyssey .wave file, David!

How'd you do that?

-- I think I love you (you @re no .bumpkin), September 14, 2001.

David L re: a good barrier on planes, why not just ban certain "afghanistan" born people to fly on U.S. planes?

LOVE, BITCHSLAPPER

-- bitchslapper (bitchslapper@kotex.com), September 14, 2001.

If there is an accident in the cockpit behind a locked door that incapacitates 3 or 4 up front you might not want to know about it anyway. Barring a bird collision or poisoned food, that is highly unlikely. And if the crew is aware of problems in the passenger compartment they will probably descend immediately to an altitude of 15,000 or less to lessen decompression.

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), September 15, 2001.

Some people in the FAA are to stupid to realize that there are towel heads running around in this country that otta have there nuts cut for these atrocities. If i'm on a plane and they pull this shit watch out cause I will cut there A RAB ass into little bite size pieces.

-- Carlos the Jackal (derslickmeister@webtv.net), September 15, 2001.

to stupid

gotta love that one

-- (Catherine__Linton@hotmail.com), September 15, 2001.

Anita, dogs are best at sniffing out bombs with buttholes.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), September 15, 2001.

David L:

If you think that this is a good time to post information that would permit circumvention of security. Go to it. I'm not going to do it. I trust Anita, but I am not going to do it.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), September 15, 2001.

Z,

If you weren't our secret weapon, you'd be damn near insufferable.

-- flora (***@__._), September 15, 2001.

Flora:

But you must admit, I am terminally polite.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), September 15, 2001.

{one of your finer points . . . }

-- flora (***@__._), September 15, 2001.

"I think," the sound clip was played by the following HTML command:
<bgsound src="http://www.jc.net/~penfield/gld2/zarathustra.wav" loop=1>
Doing "View/Source" (or the equivalent) in the browser window that is displaying this thread will show this and the other HTML commands that generate what you see.

Z, I was actually poking fun at your tendency to announce possession of information even when for possibly excellent reasons, you elect not to provide the information. I'm not sure what purpose could be served by this except vanity, but it does give me an excuse to post the sound clip of "Thus Spoke Zarathustra."

bitchslapper, I would be concerned that the authority to detain people based on who they are rather than what they have done, would be prone to abuse.

Finally, it seems crazy to me that pilots are responsible for their plane, crew and passengers, yet are denied the means to use force to carry out that responsibility. The mentality behind this policy seems similar to that behind the drive to disarm citizens.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), September 17, 2001.