It`s the first time I felt like logging on today. Must be delayed reaction, but like one or two I`ve read on here, I feel so grim. `Heavy heart` would sum it up. I can`t stop watching the television coverage because I want to see people coming out alive, but on the other hand the coverage is becoming unbearable. It`s like some kind of media feeding frenzy and it`s not pretty.

It seems to either revolve around the same small snippets of information and footage of distraught relatives, or newsbroadcasters conducting (orchestrating would work just as well) interviews with minor, ill-equiped `specialists`. Worse still, tonight I have watched two interviews conducted with Pakistani major league officials which were nothing short of disgraceful. The interviewers may as well have just poked at them with a sharp stick! Talk about `talking up` a war! The situation is about as bad as it could be, with the majority of people crying out for diplomacy - I think the media should, for once, try to tow the line.

I`m not one for censorship, but I would certainly be warning the media to tread very carefully, particularly when some of these newly forged alliences are fragile, tentative and very sensitive.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Answers

Sorry for spouting!

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Gal, as it happens, I just caught a live broadcast be Stephen Evans on the Beeb news. I have to admit that despite being probed by the anchor man (can't remembe his name right now) he refused to describe the things they'd been told about in a press briefing.

Yes - it would be great to see more survivors, but if it's getting to you, then give it a rest. Life must go on.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

I just feel really wound up tonight. Watching the mayor of New York stumbling over his words while trying to find an acceptable way of reporting the number of bodies they have found, and parts of bodies. I truly felt that poor man`s discomfort. It was acute and distressing to watch.

Then you get some clever tv interviewer, who forgets that he is just and interviewer and not a politician, trying to trick the Chief of Defence in Pakistan into saying something he might well regret later.

Did anyone watch President Bush`s statement? I am hoping that the tears he was fighting were genuine sorrow, and not a symptom of stress and mental strain overwhelming him.

Much as I hate to admit it, I think Tony Blair has been impressive this week......there, I said it, and it didn`t hurt a bit! (well not much)

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Hi Screacher, you are right, of course, life must go on. I am exaggerating too.....I`m not watching the television 24 hours a day or anything. But I definately feel that it kind of struck home today.

How`s things with you anyways?

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Also, I think it is frustrating not being able to do anything to help. I feel like I want to be doing something.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Maybe I`ll just turn in for the night and read. (:o)

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

I'm here Galaxy, simply don't want to talk about it all just now. That recording of that message from the woman in one of the towers has just crippled me. I have a certain admiration for people who can still cling to ideas like calmness, due legal process, diplomacy after witnessing this, but quite frankly when I see people dancing in the streets about images that have had me in tears then I wouldn't bat an eyelid if those same streets were napalmed. There has been no logic or diplomacy applied to flying plane loads of terrified people into buildings full of more terrified people. The only possible group who could claim to do anything like this with any justification would be if the survivors of Nagasaki and Hiroshima had been saving all their money for the past 56 years.

All these years of people beating their chests about American heavy- handedness are going to seem like periods of restraint in hindsight. Watching this riteous anger building up is truly frightening. we are going to see precisely how powerful the USA really is now that public opinion no longer demands the kid-glove treatment. I fear for some enormous retaliatory strike and then an almost complete withdrawal behind a steel screen. You mind find them brash and arrogant on the world stage, but it will be a far more dangerous world without their using their financial and military muscle to impose some sort of order.

Not sure whether it's a loss of innocence or some sort of cancer, but I've found myself propelled towards extremism: an extremism against extremists. It's a peculiar position to be fundamentally against people who have fundamental beliefs, but the disgraceful use of schoolkids in Belfast as pawns in some 400 year old argument and now the idea that refusing to sanction Israel somehow justifies something as appaling as we have seen in NYC and Washington DC drives me to wanting the world rid of these characters.

I know that the only way this would work is complete and utter genocide and that the very values which we feel were under attack would not survive such a course of action. It's just going to have to be an eye-for-an-eye situation with a demonstration of exactly what it will cost anyone who supports acts of this kind. How many times do you hear people berating the latest acts of vandalism by juvenile delinquents with, "I blame the parents"? I think that a new system of fines is about to be introduced. In the same way that we have an enormous guilty conscience in the West about the Jewish Holocaust which makes it almost impossible to condemn Israel without feeling like a dog, I'm not going to be able to view any action taken by the States over this with anything other than complete understanding.

Christ. Really waffled on for someone who didn't want to talk about it. Sorry.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Don't apologise Softie, this is therapeutic for all of us. Major insomnia, keep waking up when I do drop off. Phoned an american friend this evening. He was relieved on hearing from a mate who worked in the WTC had survived. His second hand description of the horrors in the staircases inside as people rushed to get out was difficult to listen to. Bush looks frazzled. Capitol Hill has just been cleared following bomb warnings and New York airports have again been closed. Tomorrow I get to phone a man to hear if I'd gotten a job in the Amsterdam World Trade Centre! These are long dark nights of the soul. I've not felt like this since the Gulf War.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Gal - I'm fine thanks, tho somewhat affected by the events of the week (although thankfully only as an outsider). I've been working at home quite a bit since my return to God's Own Count(r)y and had the news on almost all dat Weds to the significant detriment to my work (that's why I've just finished today's stint at midnight, trying to catch up).

I have huge admiration and respect for those involved in the aftermath. I don;t think I could cope with picking through the devastation in the hope of finding survivors (there still is hope). Far more often their worst fears are going to be realised, yet still they go on.

Only last night, I woke with the horrible thought that my two sons (20 and 23) could get dragged into a military response. Neither is in the forces but it suddenly hit me. Perhaps an illogical (and definitely selfish) thought, but the last thing I want to see is anybody drawn into a long conflict. I know you can't rule out military activity - indeed it seems inevitable that some retribution will be sought, but we must also all consider the potential conclusion. We are not toalking about rational individuals. Fanatics are a different thing altogether, and that part of the world is very unstable. Unless the US could be sure to take out the leaders and their potential successors, it is quite possible they would acquire (by whatever means) weapons of mass-destruction (and I'm not talking about hijacked airliners, no matter how much devastation they have casued this week). Sadly, these fanatics would have no qualms about using them. That is what worries me, so any response has to be condsidered very, very carefully.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Screach - You're right but as Softie says you can't blame the Yanks kicking some serious ass. They've just got to get it right 1st time or we're all in deep doodoo.

If I was certain there was nobdy left alive I'd just bury the whole World Trade Centre in a massive block of concrete and create a monument to the world to keep the motivation going against the loons. I know it'd leave them a memory as well but it would be a fitting tribute.

When I came back from France in August we dropped in to the Canadian War Memorial - a young lad quoted that 'the only people for whom a war ends is the dead' - I can't remember the exact text or the author.

There will be so many people permanently scarred from this recovery operation that I question its worth. Mind you I suppose that clearing the site will help the whole worlds grief come out.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Josh - there's still a chance that some survivors will be found, and until that time runs out, they must (and will) continue. AS I said yesterday, in an earthwquake, there comes the time when they have to give up and clear the place. This is not going to be possible in NYC. Burying the lot in concrete would create a memorial to those lost. I couldn't care about the memory for the terrorists. They have left a big enough scare on civilisation aleady.

However, it seems that the authorities want to sift thru the whole lot to find any possible clues to the identity of the perpetrators.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Seems to be a combo of searching for survivors, searching for bodies and body parts, searching for clues, and trying to do it all without creating further collapses. There was talk that they've even got to be careful when cutting twisted steel, as a wrong cut could unleash stored energy and cause it to snap. They're also getting sent scurrying out of the area regularly due to unstable buildings in the area. One building has looked like coming down any minute since last night.

Agree that a memorial should be built on the site once this is all over. I know it sounds gruesome, but I really think part of the twisted facade of the WTC should form a centerpiece to the memorial. It kinda looks like modern sculpture, and there couldn't be any more fitting reminder of the damage hatred can cause.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Dear All After these few days,my own very real problems have been put into perspective.I don't really like our World,do you? Fifties Fan

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Well, the early night didn`t work out so well. I slept like an angel for three hours, then was awake again at 2 a.m. and up at 4 a.m. Looking at the responses on here, most people are feeling the same way. The views and opinions may be diverse, but the anguish, frustration, fear and deep sadness seem to be universal.

It occured to me this morning, when the first thing I did was boot up the computer and log on to the BBS, just how cut off I would feel if I lost internet access. It still amazes me just how comforting this place is, or how deep the bond of friendship between people who have never met face to face. Long may it last.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

In my first post last night I said ` people are crying out for diplomacy `. That wasn`t the right phrase. What I meant was that people worldwide are praying for a `considered response`. God knows, my perspective might be very different if I were sifting through the rubble, or waiting in agony for news of a loved one, but Josh is right, the Americans have to get it right and take action which will receive global support.

While listening to the press conference with the President`s Aid, I was interested that one or two journalists were labouring over one particular point. They wanted to know if the President had to have a motion passed by Congress to take further action. Several times the point was raised, and several times the response was that the President did not constitutionally `need` the backing of Congress, but that he would like it because it would show American solidarity. (I`ve probably oversimplified that). Does this mean that there is a significant difference between how Congress would proceed as opposed to the actions expected to be sanctioned by the President?

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

In relation to the thread about Question Time, I watched a discussion/interview on one of the news programmes earlier in the evening. I believe the American satellite guest was Marilyn Albright (?), and one of the studio based panel was a young man who is apparently the head of the Muslim Youth Organisation in the UK. His response to the suggestion that America will retaliate was, words to the effect that, an attack on ANY Muslim is an attack on ALL Muslims. I ask again, just what are the programme planners trying to achieve here? Do they not watch their own programmes? Did they not recoil at the rioting in Bradford, or wonder at the recent upsurge in racist attacks in the UK. Is it just me, or do they seem intent on (or maybe just oblivious to the fact that they could be) inciting civil unrest? I am deeply saddened by their stupidity.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Gal - let's face it, no-one buys a paper that tells us good news. There is not much news product in showing a programme that is ostensibly a public debating forum if everyone says the same thing. It would be over in 10 minutes. The only other situation is a Diana scenario, where the general viewing public are force fed a diet of books of condolance, royal experts telling us how wonderful she was (for the hypocrasy see Private Eye's online pages and the 'Diana' issues), and the theatrical displays of grief.

I digress. I didn't see the programme last night, but if there was a lad from the Muslim Youth Organisation, see the emphasis on 'youth' spouting crap. Just put it down to someone who wants to be seen as controversial, like a lot of young people. In a related issue, how many bad taste jokes are going around schoolyards right now?

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

In a letter in the Glasgow Herald this morning a guy cites the bombing of a hospital in Sudan, of the starvation of millions of Iraqi kids, the blanket bombing of Hanoi/Cambodia amongst grotesque acts of terrorism.

There is a song from the Manfredds called "God on our side", or something like that. It's a ballad telling tales of world wars and how we were always in the right cos we had God on our side, and come the nuclear war just who's side would God be on. The peeople who hijacked those planes didn't do it out of pure evil, they did it because they believed they had God on their side.

I saw a report citing how brave the passengers had been to fight the hijackers and crash the plane. They were brave because they sacrificed their own lives to protect others. They did exactly what the hihackers intended to do, and committed suicide to save others.

Tony Benn has the ability to nag away at my conscience like no other, he did it again the other day. He remembers how events were, not how they are with hindsight. He will remind us that the US trained Bin Ladin, he will remind us of US retribution after the embassy bombings included bombing a Sudanese hospital. He even brought Nelson Mandela into it. A person who a British Prime Minister deemed an evil terrorist while he was in prison. And what of leaders like Pinochet ? Bin Ladin was a US ally, not they want to kill him. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, now one of the most respected leader the world has known. It seems there is no absoulte definition of good guys and bad guys just perceptions at times in history.

I fear that the world's retribution will be to maintain the order as it is now. The US/West is far more ecomically and socially stable than the rest of the world. They clearly want to protect that position.

The arab states have come into money in the second half of the 20th century but have not brought their social infrastructure to the levels of the West, sometimes for religious reasons, other times because of despotic leaders. The jump in prosperity matches what happened to the industrialised countries in the late 19th, early 20th centuries. These periods for the West included revolutions, overthrows of Royalty, land disputes, two world wars and all sorts of mayhem. The arab countries are just catching up with this process. 60 years ago it would have been pretty unthinkable to say that the US, UK, Germany, Japan, Russia would be jointly condemning an act of war against one of them.

Wars may solve an initial problem but they just leave a different one in its place. For example, Germany was fought to (initially) stop the taking over eastern European states. At the end of the war those same states were occupied for the next 45 years by a different country.

In Northern Ireland as a closer to home situation. The decision to shoot on Bloody Sunday has had repurcussions for 30 years, so far. Taking people out in a blanket way will leave some as martyrs, and not end the problem but propogate it.

I don't have the depth of knowledge to try and explain Palestine, but I see that the Israelis have started to build more settlements this week in the area that was viewed as Palestinian. A terribly cycnical act. I totally accept the horrors that was the holocaust and that it should never be allowed to happen again, but it seems to be happening again. This time it is the systematic removal of the race of people known as Palestinians. If Bush really is to take the big picture and look to root at all causes of terror he really does need to think about what drives the terror groups and address those issues too.

The middle east seems to be the cause of all concern these days, as Germany/Japan/Italyt and other such bad guys just matured. In the future these middle eastern states will calm down and join the world order, maybe after lots of horror like this week's. As a world we need to look at this and realise that the African nations are those next in line. We are letting Aids kill them off at the moment, we argue about their financial debt to us. I didn't like the talk of reparations for slavery a couple of weeks ago, but it is far less abhorrant than the concept of these poverty stricken countries actually owing us money. We need to act now before the millions of disaffected Africans produce a Bin Ladin of their own.

Phew, sorry, but that's me emptied too !

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Bobby I don`t disagree with you, for the most part, but don`t you think that this is an exceptional situation? Am I over-reacting in thinking that this weeks events see us standing on the precipice of Global instability? Personally I would be reassured to be fed a diet of political leaders, Heads of State, Religious leaders etc., positively reinforcing the need for unity against terrorism and a serious commitment to bringing the culprits to justice, calm, considered debate about an effective solution to this horror, and, I might add, the need for some serious soul-searching.

This young man`s statement could very easily have been interpreted as a `call to arms` to the, already disassociated, Muslim youth of Great Britain. IMHO, it was not appropriate to broadcast it at this point in the proceedings.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

What a thoughtful posting Macbeth. It just illustrates perfectly how much `soul-searching` really does need to be done, before we could ever hope of reaching a utopian state of world order and peace.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Gal - that lad's comments certainly sound insensitive and inappropriate. However, I think there's too much at stake in terms of power and money for there to be global instability. Simply put, it would cost too much. Had such an attack come from a nation state, then there would be much more cause for concern.

However, in perspective (no matter how dreadful Tuesday was) we didn't see a global meltdown after the OPEC crisis, Six Day War, Cuban Missle Crisis, Kennedy assassination or Union Carbide's mass killing in Bhopal (sp?) where 100,000s died.

The US attacks were appaling, but it's because it was closer to home it feels so much worse. What concerns me is Israel's response by ploughing tanks into Palestinian territories with no international reaction.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Completely agree. Israel killed 9 Palestinians in the West Bank yesterday, another in the Gaza strip and it barely registers, let alone attracts condemnation. In fact Yasser Arafat feels obliged to give blood to attempt to assuage US anger at small numbers of Palestinans celebrating whilst his own people are being killed. Meanwhile Barak keeps appearing in British media spouting inflammatory rhetoric about taking on 'terrorists'. Maybes he should look closer to home.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001