Greetings,

Watching the news in horror of the recent events I keep asking myself this question and am concerned that few others are considering this. What are we doing as a nation to provoke such hatred from an unseen enemy. I perceive most of the people on this forum to be loving, caring, human beings that I share a lot in common with and that's why I read it and participate. I think the question we should be asking ourselves right now is, what are we doing that would provoke people to literally die trying to get even with us? It's an unfathonable amount of hatred to me. I think I know some of the answers and the truth is not very flattering for America. I'm a proud American Vietnam era veteran who would give my life for the ideals this nation was founded on but I look at the things the leadership of this country has been doing for the last few decades and I have to wonder if we're losing those ideals.

I'm all for a strong nation and I'd like to see a little gratuitous ass kicking going down to the perpetrators of this horrible act, but I believe this may truely be the time for us as a Christian nation to be prepared to "turn the other cheek", and try and address the underlying causes of the crisis we're facing. Not overreact in selfrightious retribution. Are we defending the ideals of this nation or are we projecting imperalism and exploitation of the weaker inhabitants of this planet for our own greedy rewards. We can go over there and kill bin Laden, Hussien, and Kadaffi, or half the Arab world for that matter, but if we don't fundamentally change our evil ways, they will just keep comming at us. And I really fear the police state that may develop in an effort to "protect us" in the future. The world will change after yesterday, I hope it's for the better but I fear not. In the end, it doesn't matter if we're conquered, which is unlikely, or we do it to ourselves, if we lose our libery,our freedom, and the other ideals this nation was founded on, then we've lost the battle and our enemies have won the war.

-- Carter (chucky@usit.net), September 12, 2001

Answers

Carter, perhaps you are right and the victim is to blame. But two world wars has shown all that treading on the US is a very bad idea.

-- Del (dgrinolds@gvtel.com), September 12, 2001.

I think you've hit the nail right on the head. In the midst of this tragedy it is easy to feel hatred and want revenge. In contrast, the rational response would be to try to UNDERSTAND the mindset of the perpetrators. My fear is that a military response would be an escalation. It would be far better to eliminate the cause of the conflict than to inflame it.

The U.S. may not be seen as a free-trade eutopia everywhere. Corporate capitalism my not be to everybody's taste or benefit! Globalisation and U.S. corporate rule are probably resented in a lot of nations, even U.S. allies. Boycott of last weeks racism conference was a low point of the administration, rejection of Kyoto was another. Selective sale of arms/munitions certainly chooses friends. The fact that the U.S. economy is driven primarily by middle-eastern oil is a huge complicating factor, especially at a time when economic expansion is sought as a lifeline more important than anything else.

o.k. I'm stepping off my soap box now !

-- David C (fleece@eritter.net), September 12, 2001.

Those people are insane. There is no "understanding" to be had. They are religious fanatics, complete lunatics, and it is futile to try to figure out how we could have brought this on ourselves...that's like a person trying to figure out what they did to invite the attack of some stranger who was acting on orders from the voices in his head. You can't make sense of that, or take responsibility for it, because the perpetrator is not rational. No, the US is not perfect, and I disagree with MUCH of what our government does, but to suggest that we brought this on ourselves is quite far-fetched in my opinion. The Taliban folk are as nutty as those cult people from a few years back who commited suicide thinking they would ascend to another planet. No logic can be applied to their actions, or to these.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), September 12, 2001.

Don't get me wrong, in no way do I think they are right and should go unpunished; however, these people are not cowards (hey, how many of us would run suicide missions like they do??), insane, or monsters. They have just have a differant way of thinking than we do. In order to understand thier ways you have to understand the way of thought and how people are raised in the middle east. It isn't like anything we know in this country nor can comprehend. The entire thought process is completely differant. They truly believe they are defending thier country and thier god. The problem is we can't understand thier ways and they can't understand ours. The two just can't co-exist in this world and never will be able to. It is so sad because these terrorist are also fathers, sons and have friends who loved and depended on them. They died doing what they thought was right. In turn though, they took out fathers, mothers, sons, daughters and loved ones -- innocent people. It is so sad...when it all comes down to it we aren't so differant....and yet we are!

There is no answer. There is no retaliation that will work. It is all part of world and the changes to come. Makes homesteading all the more valuable! Hey, most people think we are insane!

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), September 12, 2001.

We are a friend of Israel and most Arabs hate the Jewish people. They always have. Personally I don't think it's so much that we are a captialistic country. We buy their oil, which makes them very rich, and I don't believe they would want to give that up. Look at China, Europe, in fact most Nations. They all have companies all over the Globe. All Nations make money off of each other. Heck, look at all the foreign companies in this country alone. We, on the other hand have always been a good friend in helping Israel. Maybe they think if they break our back, either in resolve or economically, then we wouldn't have the resources to help Israel. And if we don't, who would step up to take our place? Israel with no friends (especially powerful ones), is just how those countries would like it. So, do you all really think these terrorists care about the ozone layer, global warming, etc. and us not going along with other countries on these issues? Seriously doubt it. And Carter, maybe we shouldn't have been in Vietnam, who knows what could have happened if we weren't. Maybe North Vietnam wouldn't have just stopped at trying to taking over just South Vietnam. But i would gurantee that if we turned against Israel, the surrounding countries wouldn't hesitate to wipe it out.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 12, 2001.

The Bible says that any country that turns against Israel has sealed their fate. They are allready dead. Israel is God's chosen people. The countries around Israel which are fighting them are evil and greedy. The U.S. can never turn against Israel. That would be to give in to evil.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 12, 2001.

I can not help but wonder why everyone is so certain it is THEM. Who are THEM??? What kind of darkness could produce minds that would concieve of using plane loads of people as bombs??? Why can I not get a grasp on this???

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), September 12, 2001.

I completely agree with Shannon!

God bless America!

-- Ardie from WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), September 12, 2001.

God question. Here's my answer.

"We" have done nothing. The US Government has done something. Providing money to Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other nations is what the US government has done to bring these things upon us.

-- Rick#7 (rick7@postmark.net), September 12, 2001.

Cindy, I hope you realize that calling the countries surrounding Isreal "evil and greedy" is wildly unfair, not to mention bigoted. Judging an entire nation or race based on the actions or words of a few or of a non-representative government is something we in this country have been trying to eradicate for years.

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), September 12, 2001.

The problem with bombing nations for the actions of "them" is always the same, regardless where you stand. The people who planned and committed those acts yesterday were not against "us", it was against our leaders.

When we bombed the hell out of Iraq because Hussein refused to leave Kuwait, he didn't pay the price his people did. While his soldiers and his citizens were getting shell shock in their bunkers and homes, he was probably in a air conditioned bunker, wearing speedos, eating Cheetos, watching Iraqui dubbed "I Love Lucy" re runs. He wasn't effected, his people were.

The actions committed yesterday were in retalitation for what our leaders did, or are going to do. Joe Average, whichever side they are on, will pay the price for that.

But we have to respond to this. Terrorists who commit acts like this must be found and be made to pay for their actions. I'm sure they and other terrorist groups are licking their lips, at all of the exposure. I don't know what the final death toll will be, but it will be enormous. Freedom isn't free, you have to fight for it, nobody will give it to you. I just hope that the changes that will be made in our policies and the way we do business will not effect our freedoms, like Carter relates. Laws that purport to protect us from "terrorism" can be worse than the cause.

-- j. r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), September 12, 2001.

I've been thinking about this question and doing some research. Look through this Yahoo search result page and you will see just what kind of people and "society" this afghan taliban is. Uneducated violent pakistani youths who took over the afghans and have run that country to wrack and ruin on their bizarre and extremely violent power trip. These are the people sheltering the monster who very likely committed this atrocity. They are birds of a feather. I have tried and I cannot understand or have any sympathy for their culture and beliefs and I no longer care to. I used to think of myself as tolerant, but I can't tolerate what happened yesterday or the culture and beliefs and people that apparently perpetrated it.

http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Afghanistan/Government/Politic s/Parties_and_Groups/Taliban_Islamic_Movement_of_Afghanistan/

-- Susan (smtroxel@socket.net), September 12, 2001.

"Don't get me wrong, in no way do I think they are right and should go unpunished; however, these people are not cowards (hey, how many of us would run suicide missions like they do??), insane, or monsters" Karen,

Please explain how the deeds carried out yesterday was "not" cowardly.

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), September 12, 2001.

Terry,

Please explain how it was:

As terrible as their act was, these were people who believed strongly enough in a cause to give their own lives for it. Why do we consider a member of our own military to be brave when they fly a plane, drop bombs and have little chance of physical harm, and yet deem those who will die for a cause as a coward? Misguided perhaps but cowardly???

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), September 12, 2001.

I agree somewhat with Annie, the reason we are percieved to be "the enemy" has less to do with economics and more to do with politics. Other countries do business in the middle east, but their goverments do not try to pit country againist country or faction against faction as our goverment has for more than 50 yrs. After all Bin Laden was trained and funded by the CIA originally. We have supported and condemmed the corrupt sheiks, shahs and sultans of the region as it has suited our purposes. I personally believe "we are reaping what we have sown". For more than 50 yrs. we have given/sold arms and "technical advisors" to any country that would welcome us. Like love starved harlots our political leaders have said "here have some more" and then turned their backs on them when they had no further use for them. How can we not expect them to hate us? How much more insincere could we be? Unfortunatly these actions are not limited to the Middle East, we have committed the same crimes in South America, Africa and the Phillipines. I fully expect to bear witness to many more of these atrosities (sp) in my life. The common people of these countries don't want guns and planes, they want food in their bellies, schools and medicines so their children can grow up educated and healthy. Then we shake our heads and say "I just don't understand", would you understand if your loved ones were starving to death before your eyes? Would you understand if your child was dying for want of a simple shot of penicellen? (sp) Would you sit down and pray for something to fall from the sky? What if that something was a gun, and attached to it was a man who offered you the food/medicine you needed? Would you take it? Would you learn to fly a plane? Of course not, your civilized right? Right. I know what your thinking, its not the same thing these are religious fanatics right? Splinter groups appear in all religions, christian, jew or islamic. As an American, I am appalled by the carnage wreaked on innocent people in New York and Washington D.C. and I hunger for retribution and justice as much as the next man, but wholesale destruction of Islamic cities is not justice, it is murder.

-- Rog (rw285@isoc.net), September 12, 2001.

Kim,

These people didn't just give their own lives for their cause and they not only took thousands of innocent people with them but they did not do it face to face nor were the innocent ones killed able to defend themselves. This was like a "shooting an unarmed man in the back" scenario. A person that did that use to never be considered anything other than a coward!

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), September 12, 2001.

"Why do we consider a member of our own military to be brave when they fly a plane, drop bombs and have little chance of physical harm,.."

Oh yes, and Kim, I wonder how many of our injured Veterans would agree that they had "little chance of physical harm".

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), September 12, 2001.

Oh gee Leslie, don't take it so literally. The only thing I am biogeted against is all the ones over there who keep the fighting and bloodshed going on. What is going on over there has gone on for years. I said the ones who are fighting Israel, not the peacefull ones. It has been a horrid situation for a long time.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 12, 2001.

Well, I just have to put my two cents, well maybe 3 cents in here!! Annie, I agree with most of what you said; but as the wife of a combat-disabled Vietnam veteran, I must point out that Carter identified himself as a Vietnam era veteran - that means he wasn't in Nam, just so ya know. Cindy in KY, I agree!! Leslie: The countries Cindy is speaking of are trying to destroy Israel - to me that makes them evil; not as individual people; but as a unit trying to destroy Israel. And as several have said, if we turn our backs (also as a unit, as a country) on Israel, what then? Would Israel fall? Not if God didn't want them to. But what would happen to America for turning its back on Israel? I don't want to know the answer to that! Kim: Usually the pilots we call heroes for dropping bombs are in a war - everyone knows its a war and they ARE in very real danger. Oh, yea and ususally they also aren't in a hijacked plane full of civilians. Terry: I AGREE!!!!

-- Cynthia Speer (farmsteaderus@yahoo.com), September 12, 2001.

Thanks Cynthia, I didn't know there was a difference.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 12, 2001.

Rog, you bring up good points, but here is something I've always wondered. Britain was the first country to give the land to Israel, so that the Jewish people could have a home. Russia has always sold arms to the "government of the day", in most of these countries. France goes back and forth in their favor of leaders in the Arab countries, as does most of Europe. So why us? We really don't do much more than the others. Maybe we're (or our press), are just more open about it and makes us easier to hate?

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 12, 2001.

Annie, Britain did not "give" the land to the Jewish people willingly, and not as an act of friendship.

-- Elizabeth in E TX (kimprice@peoplescom.net), September 12, 2001.

I said I did not believe that the terrorist were cowards since the definition of a coward is "One who shows fear in the face of danger or pain" "one who turns tail and runs". I don't see that with the Arab terrorist. It takes courage to not only to risk your life but to actually say goodbye to your wife and children and give up your life for your cause. I don't mean they are right, I just mean how many of us would run a suicide mission for a cause.

Heck, I know people who would sell out thier own mother if it meant they could make a few bucks off of it. We let drug dealers kill our children, crime run rampant, etc. I'm not saying take out a bunch of innocent people, but do we risk our lives for a better America...nope, we head for the country. Please don't misunderstand, I am only saying American's also have some odd ways of thinking. Remember slavery?? How about Japaneese concentration camps of WW2, etc.

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), September 12, 2001.

Elizabeth, maybe not as an act of friendship, but they, among others, were trying to find land for the Jewish people to live.

gopher://israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/for/h4f

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 12, 2001.

Karen,

Definition of "coward" - One lacking in courage; a craven; poltroon.

"poltroon" - A mean-spirited coward; dastard.

"Dastard" - A base coward; a sneak.

"base" - The lowest or supporting part of anything; bottom; foundation

(New Illustrated Webster's Dictionary)

I guess what they really are then is a "poltroon" - seems to be the worst kind of coward.

Actually, I believe we do sacrifice for what we believe in. An example of Some of these are people can be found in the Uniteds States Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard.

You asked if we risk our lives for America. Don't any of the wounded and killed veterans count? And I have no doubt that if go to war over these actions that there will be "many" to volunteer to be in a branch of our military and that "many" civilians will be more than willing to make any needed sacrifices here at home and that may include actually risking our lives it was brought to our own soil, but never would we make the "cowardly attacks" that we have just seen.

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), September 12, 2001.

Simply put, what we have done is intervened in a centuries old holy war halfway around the world. One side looks at us as saviour, the other as satan.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), September 12, 2001.

Gary in Indiana,, You are correct, Our government with help from world corporations is doing to foreign countries excatly what it's doing here to its own people and that is trying to control every aspect of every persons place and time. The difference is most American people have allow it to happen to them where as most foreign countries/people want American government to mind its own business.

I heard on the local tv here this morning, news reporter was interviewing people on the street and several people stated that they would be willing to give up some liberties for security. So I am sure that because of this we will more than likely become even more restrictive and our places of work and stores,etc. highly monitored.

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), September 12, 2001.

Wow,

Lot's of people have an opinion on this. Thanx Cynthia, for clarifying the veteran thing, I was going to mention that myself but I see you beat me to it. It may also be relevant to note I served my 4 years in the U.S. Coast Guard, the only armed force of the United States with a humanitarian mission.

I have to comment on the coward thing too, and agree it's definitely a mislabel. I guess it's just a part of the name calling rhetoric that's going on right now to insight the American people to react. In a huge sense it was a cowardly act and certainly the leadership of those poor misguided souls that killed themselves in this tragety are cowards but to die for something you believe in, however twisted that belief, is not the act of a coward per se. An idiot, a monster, or several other low life designations but I personally don't see them as cowards. They were intelligent human beings, demonstated by the complexity of their act, that felt they had been wronged in such a horrific way that they needed to die, and kill thousands with themselves , to make their point. That's some serious hatred and frustration. I'm not trying to defend it, I'm just trying to understand it. And by the way, if you want to erradicate the problem by force your going to have to commit an act of genocide against several different groups, primarilly arab/palastininan types but what about that fellow named Tim McViegh. He was an all American white boy and until yesterday, he had the record for the most horrific act of Terrorism on American soil. What was it that pissed him off so bad he felt compelled to attach our government. Some of his attitudes and ideas were pretty disturbing and i believe they resulted from a lot of the sickness that pervades our society today.

My point is this, spending more money on defense, espionage, and outright retaliation will only make the problem worse. Some of those sickos do just need to be stamped out like the cockroaches they are but until we address some of the real issues that drives these people to do what they do, they will just keep comming at us and we'll have to trade our liberty and freedom for the security of a police state.

Think about this, if you total the economic devastation of the events of yesterday it would probably be enough money to buy every palastinian in every refrugee camp in the middle east a condo and a mini market in Florida. Maybe we should try and export a little more love and food instead of hate and weapons.

I can't take sides with Israel or the Arabs. I think they are all a bunch of religious nuts that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they weren't trying to kill each other. We're talking about hadreds that might be genetic here. We get dragged into this thing because we took sides with the Israelis and support them to the tune of $5 billion/yr or more. When it comes to attrocities against each other, the biggest difference I can see is that the Israelis are a lot better armed. They both need to take a lesson from Christ and "Love thy neighbor as thy self". But that's unlikely since it's a lesson even most contemporary Christian's have a hard time with.

-- Carter (chucky@usit.net), September 12, 2001.

Terry in NW Ohio,

I understand the point you are making, and yes, those who died defending our country do count. My point is that those most terrorist do NOT lack courage -- therefore, they are NOT cowards. Only my opinion. I think you just aren't understanding what I am saying. Defending our country (or another country) is not what this is about...it is about a "cause". American's don't defend thier cause. We don't even have one anymore, well except for save the whales, environment, etc. But would we die for it? Most of our cause is making more money. Money = happiness. At the expense of our families, marriage, children. Not all Americans, but many if not most. Just making the point that our thought process is not always so on target and a bit insane. The middle east thought process is also out there...but only to those who don't understand it. I am not defending them or saying it is right. They believe that what they are doing is the right thing to do. I think it is way out there, but I am not middle eastern so I don't get it!

By the way, where in NW Ohio are you? I am originally from Toledo.

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), September 12, 2001.

Karen,

I actually do understand what you're saying about them not lacking courage, it's just that courage is not usually associated with a mean spiritedness and I guess that's why I can't come to agree with you completely about that.

Also, isn't defending our country or another country actually a cause? Isn't maintaining freedom a cause? I believe it's just more of a case of us not having to fight for these lately. I guess to me it seems more like we have just been apathetic until this incident because there wasn't any (in our face) threat to our cause (freedom, liberty). Does that make sense. I do agree with you that a lot of us seem to think that money equals happiness but I think that is due to the times we live in - one where there has been no struggle such as a depression or war for along time. I think our love for so much entertainment stems from this too. We have become a lazy nation, so to speak, but I feel that we would pull out of that if there were a great need to do so. And, thankfully, not everyone is like this.

We live near the Michigan and Indiana borders. We have only lived here since 1998, but think it is a very nice area. How long has it been since you lived in Toledo?

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), September 12, 2001.

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-- off (ItalicsOff@here.com), September 12, 2001.

Hi Terry,

Point well taken about our becoming a lazy nation. Guess we have all had it too good for too long. We have all been so fortunate at that we do take it all for granted. We want MORE fortune! Go figure! You never know what you have until it is gone. My greatest fear in these attacks is that they will result in more government control over our lives. Seems to be no answer to all this, does there?

We have been gone from Toledo since the 1980's. We went back for the first time in 15 years and can't believe how it has changed. Some for the better, some for the worst. Gez, I would never live in the city again....but then again, I don't want to live in any city again! LOL! Took us too long to get out! We were transferred from Toledo to New York city. We have stood at the WTC and when those towers went down we just could not believe it. When you stand there in front of them they are so tall and so solid and massive you think nothing in this world could shake them. We are still in shock!

We went from NY to Florida, then to NC, where my husband's company had a hostile take over by the Japanese and he lost his job. We homesteaded in NC and then my Mom was terminal and we sold the farm and moved back to Florida to help and be with her until she died. Then life just took over and we ended up in Florida back in the "money race". We finally came back to our senses and just moved a month ago to the SW Virginia mountains. Boy do we love it here!

Nice debating with you. Your points are very well taken. Best wishes!

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), September 12, 2001.

If you kill enough of them they will stop. Hey, that's what they are trying to do to us! If given the means to do so, THEY would kill every person in the U.S. who did not submit to them . And those who submitted would become slaves to them. Why is it so hard for Americans to understand that very little of the worlds people are like us? They dont think like us. They dont look like us. They dont have the values we do. They dont even worship the same God we do. Folks, unless we get up and fight, hit them where it hurts, they will ultimately destroy our way of life.

-- monty (monty@bayou.com), September 12, 2001.

Monty, as far as I know followers of the predominant religion in the Middle East (and I assume we are talking about the Middle East?) worship the God of Abraham.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), September 13, 2001.

Cynthia, if I have misunderstood your post then I sincerely apologize, and offer this explanation of my response: my husband of 10 years is Iranian born and raised, and has a deep and abiding hatred of the Iranian government and both its actions and those of the terrorists that it aids and abets.

Here in southern California there is an enormous population of Iranian ex-patriates and Iranian-born Americans, and every single one of the hundreds I have met condemns the Iranian government with passion.

They cringe every time a terrorist act is committed, because they are afraid it will have something to do with Iran, and that everyone here will look at them as if they themselves are terrorists. Iranian culture is very different from American culture, and some aspects of it I don't approve of. But I think that these people deserve to be judged on their own merits, if they must be judged at all, because there are so many aspects of their culture that I think are wonderful, and I am a very liberated European-American woman.

People here seem to think that Iranians are Arabs, which is untrue, and that they speak the same language, which is also untrue. These are major untruths, combined with the fact that so many Americans judge foreign peoples by what they see on TV. Such as Iranians "en masse" shouting "Death to America!" and Palestinian people rejoicing at the tragedy that took place yesterday. I also used to judge these people by what I watched on TV and what I read in the paper, but I've learned since that there's a whole other dimension to this cultural difference, and although it's impossible to expect the general public to understand what has taken me years to learn, I ask that you allow that a culture that is different and whose government has provided an established precedent that defines it in terms of revolting expressions such as "terrorist" and "fanatic" be judged separately from the images that appear on TV, which are hardly representative of an entire people.

Iranians are so used to being lumped in with the images that are represented on TV that when you show that you know, in some way, by voice or by demonstration, something that is uniquely Persian, they are overwhelmed that you are familiar with that one little thing.

In short (yes, I know this post is way long), the middle-eastern cultures are represented both accurately and inaccurately, and in times like this the inaccuracy is especially painfully felt for the majority of honest, moral people who are targeted as evil people when they are no such thing. They are ashamed of the fact that many other evil people are representative of their culture, but then so should we Americans be ashamed of people like Timothy McVeigh, who was also a terrorist, and who had nothing to do with any of our lives.

I have a sense that I've been dragging on & on about something that no one is interested in, but I feel that it was important to have said it. Anyway, Cynthia, I apologize again for misunderstanding.

And for Monty, I'm just bustin' with curiousity: just what DO Americans look like? And what God do we worship? I myself am unable to come up with a single answer for each category.

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), September 13, 2001.

Oops, I should have addressed my post to "Cindy" rather than "Cynthia". Please forgive me.

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), September 13, 2001.

I really appreciate the conversations on this thread because the one thing that has shocked me the most was seeing those people, mothers and children cheering because we had been attacked.

Leslie thank you for your post.

This all makes me wonder if the press conjured up that scene to inspire hate in our hearts. Every where I go I hear people talking about what terrible people could do such a thing and the question is my heart is why, why do they hate us so. Everyones comments here helps me understand that better. I understand the stance that " they did that to us and we are going to get back at them!" but is it right?

-- trendle ellwood (trendlespin@msn.com), September 13, 2001.

"Americans don't defend their cause".

The men on the plane that crashed south of Pittsburgh, defended their cause. If it wasn't for those brave Americans, the plane would have probably ended up crashing into the White House or Capital.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 13, 2001.

First off, I'm PROUD of all our Veterans. Not everybody dodged the draft like some of our leaders have. These guys may not have wanted to go to a different country and serve, but they did anyway. That is cool with me.

I think a lot of what happened has to do with our involvement with Israel. Being we're our biggest allies and they HATE the Jews, and want to claim it as their holy land too.

I'll all for blowing whoever did this/whatever countries are involved into the arms of Allah. If in fact they did come from the middle east, and I'm banking on the fact that they did. I think we're gonna see some action soon enough. I don't know whats gonna happen, but something is. Something is gonna have the full wrath of the US.

We'll never stamp terrorism out, but we're gonna put one hell of a dent in it for now. What I don't understand from some of you guys here is the suicide thing. I think it takes one hell of a coward to commit suicide. It's the easy way out, and hey, if you can take a bunch of people with you, thats even better.

-- Uriah (Uriahdeath2@netscape.net), September 13, 2001.

Something for thought, the Russian take on this:

THE UNENDING WAR COMES HOME TO AMERICA

PRAVDA

So it begins. We now have a choice between two options. We can escalate the current low intensity war that the United States is waging against nations of the world from Columbia to Iraq. Or, we can pause and re-examine our current imperial adventures around the world and recognize that terrorism against the United States is the natural consequence of trying to tell the rest of the world how to live.

Already, the war chant has gone up from the neo-conservative establishment regarding the need to escalate American intelligence efforts and American hegemony in our world. Former Senator Warren Rudman has already called for a new "war against terrorism" and even had the temerity to use this event as an opportunity to condemn American isolationism. Rudman (undoubtedly towing the establishment conservative line) has compared the modern United States to an isolationist America in the 1930’s. Such a statement exhibits either incredible ignorance of current American foreign policy or just rank opportunism.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), September 13, 2001.

Yea, Russia didn't give a shit that we were "imperialistic", when we were giving them billions of dollars to squander. I'm about sick to death of our Country being bashed.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 13, 2001.

WE didn't start WWI, WE didn't start WWII, WE didn't start Vietnam, WE have gotten pulled into these messes from the greed of other nations. But oh no, WE'RE the bad ones, aren't we!!!!? Give me a break. My Nation is not a Saint, but compared to most of the ones ponting a finger at us, we are. Russia's got alot of room to talk. Ask them about their relationship with Afghanistan.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 13, 2001.

Annie, which event do YOU think started WWII?

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), September 13, 2001.

Thats a good question, what event triggered WWII? I majored in history in college and took an interest in history before then. There are several theories about what percipitated WWII. I'd be interested in hearing some because, ther eis a history of that area in particular, the "bread basket" so to speak because of its easy access to the Middle East. Germany wanted control then and from my research yrs ago and what one professor said, that any nation seeking power if they controlled that region, the area that led to the ME, then they ruled the world, and so that area was prey to several wars.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), September 13, 2001.

I agree with so many on this thread. I am tired of all the US bashing. We can believe that the coming war will be fought for many reasons, but the primary reason is our way of life. Our way of life right here in the US, no other country in the world would allow this exchange of views that we are having. No other country would tollerate and defend our individual rights to worship as we please. In many of the countries that we may soon be fighting women must cover themselves. It's acceptable to beat or murder your wife for a whole varriety of things. Women are not educated and are truely "beasts of burden". Yes, we speak often of the many problems in our society on this forum and that is our right. But it still beats anything else offered in the world and will continue as long as good men and women defend it. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

-- Del (dgrinolds@gvtel.com), September 13, 2001.

John, Germany taking over Poland. But even before Poland, Austria, then a year later Czech. But of course, Japan invading China, could have probably done just as much harm in the long term. Your question was simplistic, did you mean anything in particular?

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 13, 2001.

Annie, at least your history books generally agree with mine. :-) However the Japanese might say it was the US blockage of vital oil supplies to Japan that took them to war with Uncle Sam. A german might say that the provisions of the surrender at the end of WWI laid the ground for Hitler & Co and hence WWII.

My point is that such questions have different answers depending upon where one stands and in future a devote Muslim might say WWIII started when the US military desecrated sacred ground during the Gulf War.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), September 13, 2001.

John, I thought it was a trick question and I was being set up, hence the real short answer! :) Agree with the assumption of the economic hardships on the German people and they being led into War, now Hitler he's another matter. He was just plain insane.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 13, 2001.

I think it might be wise for everyone to read some history - please don't take that as a criticism of anyone in particular, just a statement that Americans as a people have a very short historical memory and we miss a lot if we assume that everyone else in the world does too. A couple of relevant facts - while I deplore the Taliban, lets make the relevant distinction - O.B.L.is not Afghani, but Saudi. We can blame them for harboring him, but lets not claim that our attackers are necessarily the same people (and thus have the same reasoning) as those who harbor him, even if they are *morally* equivalent. Second, the history of American involvement in the mid east is long, nasty, and horrible - we don't deserve this, but we are not innocent. Neither is Israel - and in this I speak as a Jew as well as an American. In order for Americans to guide their leadership into the right kinds of responses, we need to know what we're talking about, and that means listening and reading and thinking long and hard before we speak. Simplistic perceptions are of no value to us.

-- Sharon in NY (astyk@brandeis.edu), September 14, 2001.