I was also thinking on the way home about a supreme court case that involved the Japanese civilians here in the USA shortly after Pearl harbor. The case was about the US govt placing Japanese in this country in "concentration camps" was the case read after the bombing of pearl harbor. I recall at the time, about 13 yrs ago reading the case and thinkin ghow awful. But the supreme court ruled it wa sconsitituional to do so as it was in the best interest of national security. I don't think that will happen, but i DO think that any foreeigners who come from whatever counbtry that did thi will be harrassed. Theres probably going to be a great backlash.

One goat list I am on suggested not selling goat meat to the Muslims, etc because of this. wow.... getting weird

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), September 11, 2001

Answers

Response to Backlash to foreign cisizans here, Islam, etc

The fanatics that do these terroristic deeds are not true followers of Islam, but rather have perverted the Koran to their own evil political purposes. They have fallen in love with the demon of power and wrap their sin the the false cloak of religion. They are the Islamic version of a Cult. They are to be pitied for their stupidity and blindness and they need to be stopped just like any cult . The real people and these groups should not be confused by the public. God (Allah) is not confused as they will someday find out when their deeds have earned them eternal death and not paradise.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin@starband.net), September 12, 2001.

Response to Backlash to foreign cisizans here, Islam, etc

We must remember that the vast majority of problems in most countries are caused by a small minority of the people. Not everyone from any country is an extremest. That said, there does appear to be certain countries who have an entirely different view on life. Unfortunately, these countries have been in chaos, war (political, religious), poverty, etc. for so long it makes you wonder if they even know how to live peacefully. Truly a sad day.

-- Yup (Yup@nospam.com), September 12, 2001.

Response to Backlash to foreign cisizans here, Islam, etc

I was thinking the same thing.

I remember visiting the Arizona Memorial in Honolulu, and when watching the film, found myself hating the Japenese for causing what I was watching. There were Japenese tourists among the audience, and I'm sure felt VERY conspicuous (sp?) being there. I got over the feeling quickly; not so sure about now.

Our town has a small university (15,000), with quite a few people from the Middle East. I'm sure they feel rather conspicuous too. We just have to remember that just because your appearance is like "them", doesn't mean you act like "them".

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), September 12, 2001.

Response to Backlash to foreign cisizans here, Islam, etc

As to those "fundies" not being true followers of Islam...

Who are we to determine who is a true follower of their religion? If all reality is relative, then my religion is just as good as yours, and my interpretation of any "holy book" is just as good as your interpretation. If reality is relative, then all religions are equally acceptable, no matter how destructive they are to humanity.

If however, reality is NOT relative..., then that means there is only ONE correct "Holy Book", if any, and there is just ONE correct interpretation thereof. It's a catch-22, isnt it?

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), September 12, 2001.

Response to Backlash to foreign cisizans here, Islam, etc

Bernice--Yes, this is a very great concern. I live one hour south of Toledo, OH. Detroit, MI and Toledo, OH have the greatest concentrations of Arab Americans in the the U.S. The Islamic temple in Toledo is the second largest mosque in the world! Last night on the Toledo news channel, some idiot was banging on the doors of the Islamic school and threatening the Arab AMERICAN children. These citizens of our country were just as horrified by this as the rest of us are. The idiot was subdued and arrested, the school was closed, and the frightened children were picked up by their parents. Pray for ALL of our citizens.

-- vicki in NW OH (thga76@aol.com), September 12, 2001.

Response to Backlash to foreign cisizans here, Islam, etc

Daffodillady, read a translation of the Koran. Believe me, these fanatics are just that and have perverted the words of their own holy book. They have married politics and religion in their minds and that is not what the Koran is about. Either that or I am really missing something when I read it.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin @ starband.net), September 12, 2001.

Response to Backlash to foreign cisizans here, Islam, etc

Well, I think the practical point is that this might be a good excuse for hotheaded bigots to go off on regular people on the street. I for one am very concerned about the well-being of the brown people in my life. It is every thinking person's responsibility to try and diffuse the kind of scariness on our streets that this could precipitate.

-- witness (witness@hotmail.com), September 12, 2001.

That is just my point. One must not confuse the normal follower of Islam who is just like you or I with the political fanatic who has twisted the tenets of the Koran in order to hold it as an excuse to commit horrendous deeds. Shooting out the windows of your neighborhood mosque is not the thing to do. The particular flea that committed the atrocity should be the target for justice, that flea and his associates. The average Moslem is just folk who believe in the Koran and are just as horrified with the current turn of events as the rest of us. Same thing regarding nationality. You can't blame everyone from that part of the world for what a few idiots have done. That's not using your own grey matter.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin@starband.net), September 13, 2001.

I do not understand Daffodyllady's conclusion concerning those who believe in the significance of relativity.

" If all reality is relative, then my religion is just as good as yours, and my interpretation of any "holy book" is just as good as your interpretation. If reality is relative, then all religions are equally acceptable, no matter how destructive they are to humanity. If however, reality is NOT relative..., then that means there is only ONE correct "Holy Book", if any, and there is just ONE correct interpretation thereof"

Firstly, I do not believe there exists a religion that is 'destructive to humanity' by its basic tenets. The destruction comes from the INTERPRETATIONS by individuals who have their own varying agendas, usually based on fear of something or other. In any case, in this context, I'm sure we are well aware that the 'Christian Church' has probably more shame, or at least it should, in its past (and present) then any other religion on earth.

Secondly, as I see it, there can be no such thing as a "correct intrepretion" of holy texts. Human beings are much too complex for such a concept to be possible, bringing to their readings their own individual experiences and personalities. It would seem to me to be the eipitome of arrogance to assume that one could possibly intrepret a scriptural passage for another.

We all pray to the same god......we are all children of light and love....sadly, some have tragically forgotten this......

Blessings,

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), September 13, 2001.

It's kind of like KKK in America isn't it? They beleive they are doing God's deed while the rest of us beleive they are falsely interpeting the bible on purpose.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), September 13, 2001.

I read the same bible as the Christian fundies and shake my head in dismay. I would assume that Islamic famlies are just as dismayed at the fundamentalists interperatations of their's also.

We have already seen in Texas the defacing of a Mosc, the real problem is we do not know our enemy. I for one couldn't tell you if the guy who runs the local store is Muslim, Islamic, or Iranian. Just like the Chineese/American's in California during Pearl Harbor, guess you could wear a sign that says, I am not from Afghanistan!! Sort of like the north and south Vietnamese.

Bernice, I have visited the sites of the camps in California, honestly even though I am 44, born and bred in California, until we visited them I had no idea that any of that even went on, certainly wasn't in any history class, certainly wasn't in California History books :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), September 13, 2001.

Firstly, I do not believe there exists a religion that is 'destructive to humanity' by its basic tenets.

Well, Earthmamma, clearly in the Bible God told his people to go out and destroy the wicked and evil cities. Many times. Now, granted, times are different now, and we just don't go out and destroy anyone, but it did happen in the Old Testament many times. Many populations had turned completely evil back then, as they have now.

Secondly, I have no problem reading and understand Scripture. It is written in English, and isn't hard at all to understand if you take the time to study.

I'm sure we are well aware that the 'Christian Church' has probably more shame, or at least it should, in its past (and present) then any other religion on earth.

I completely dissagree with this. Who is "we"? You cannot lump the whole Christian Church into one group. And what do Christians have to do with this thread anyway? It is clearly about foreign citizens. And "we" all don't pray to the same God. That is one thing that is very clear in this world.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 13, 2001.

Cindy, I trust someone will correct me if I am wrong but is the Old Testement not one of the sacred books of Islam too?

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), September 13, 2001.

I have no idea John.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 13, 2001.

Cindy / John,

I am *almost* sure most of the Old Testament is common to the Koran.

J

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), September 13, 2001.

The local (within 30 miles) Greek restaurant had to shut down for safety's sake. Owner is Palestinian, but a citizen for almost 30 years....and a christian. And a terrific place to eat. Boy that ticks me off. Talk about blindly following leadership.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), September 13, 2001.

I am proud to see many of you being able and strong enough to understand that as horrific as this has all been for the world as a whole that there is more at work here than one race or one religion or one country. The human race has evolved since the previous wars and we now understand that judging people to be 'guilty by association' would only lessen us as citizens of the world and would serve more harm than good. Fingers crossed that this will help bring a stop to terrorism of all sorts and of all people in all nations.

-- jen (jennifer.nepton@airways.co.nz), September 13, 2001.

I am glad to see that the bigoted ranting and raving on this thread has been deleted. Keep up the good work.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), September 13, 2001.

John, I don't know also, if the Old Testament is a Sacred Book for Islam, but I would guess the origins of both religions, Jew and Muslims, come from the same place, huh? Isaac and Ishmael were sons of Abraham, is this where the split in religions came from?

Ken, I'm sorry for asking this question on this board, perhaps someone could suggest where we could carry this to? I would really like to know where the hatred of these religions stem from. Thanks.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 13, 2001.

I recall reading about the split some place. The two were the same and then somthing happened. Been awhile since i read about it.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), September 13, 2001.

I have often heard the quote of Muslims worshipping 'The God of Abraham', which makes that the same God of Christianity and Judaism.

I have also heard via news channels that there have been attacks on Sikh's in NYC and that one man was shot and killed. Sikhs are not Muslims, but because they wear turbans and beards and have a darker skin tone (and because Osama bin Ladin has been shown wearing a turban) people ignorantly do not know the difference.

I had a conversation with a man the other day in which he stated "Well, one thing for sure -- it was either the Palestinians or the Israelis who did it!!!" How is that for not having a CLUE as to what is going on elsewhere in the world?

I am appalled. These are some very small and very good examples of why we have to proceed slowly and not react like a rabid dog, biting anything in sight.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), September 14, 2001.

Julie F, I agree entirely. I was recently told that the Sikh religion, or movement, whatever, was created as a bridge between Islam and Hindu religions.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), September 14, 2001.

Islam also reveres Jesus, but only as a prophet: not as Lord and Son of God. They seem to regard him as more-or-less in there along with Moses and Elijah and so forth, and not quite up there with super- prophet Mahomed.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), September 14, 2001.

Annie,

That's exactly right. Isaac and Ishmael. God told Ishmael his sons and people would never see the Holy Land, nor have it. Of course it's impossible to know for absolutely sure, but we "believe" that the Palastines are descendants of Ismael. The desendants of Issac (Jews) were allowed the Holy Land. God said Ismael's desendants would NEVER have it.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 14, 2001.

Here's the story in case anyone would care to read it:

http://www.amazingbible.com/Documents/Bible_Prophecy/Isaac_and_Ismael. htm

It mentions the Arabs and Jews of today.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 14, 2001.

Cindy -

Well, that's what G-d says in the Torah (OT), but not what G-d says in the Koran, actually. And actually, in the original Hebrew (what we Jews read), the answer to Ishmael is more ambiguous than in most English language translations. These distinctions are more complicated and more important than you are suggesting. It would behoove us all to know more about the people we are talking about.

-- Sharon in NY (astyk@brandeis.edu), September 14, 2001.

Sharon, I'm not really suggesting anything. I know nothing about the other religions mentioned, the Torah or Koran. I am just sharing what I have learned and read over the years of study. The fighting which has gone on for so long. And we are a part of that fighting now more than ever, as we are friends of Israel.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 14, 2001.

Sharon, then the answer to the question, is.......?

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 14, 2001.

julie one must admit it does make a good conspiracy theory. Maybe the Israelis did it so we would take out the arab/palestinians. One can substitute any nationality in the about sentence. The point is utmost care and careful thought must be given to any action.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), September 14, 2001.

The Muslims worship the same God of the Jews and Christians; they recognize *all* prophets. I was once told by a Muslim that they believe that Moses and Jesus are with Allah (Jesus is a prophet to the Muslims, not a Messiah).

It seems pretty darn evident to me that the evil people are working under the guise of Islam, and that the majority of Muslims in the world have nothing to do with this sentiment. The "fundies" of Islam have taken to heart a specific concept from the Koran relating to a jihad and have made the USA the target of this concept/mission.

-- amy (acook@in4web.com), September 14, 2001.

Sikhism is indeed a monotheistic religion.

-- amy (acook@in4web.com), September 14, 2001.

Okay. First we had the Jews, or Israelites, who were the first monotheistic group. They took a lot of flak for that. Then you get the Christians. I trust you understand how they came about. About 500 ad, (if I recall correctly) Mohammad emerged as a kind of reformist, trying to bring people back to the Law of Abraham. So all three religions are branches of the same tree.

Sikhism began about 500 years ago, and is probably the most egalitarian religion in the world. Everybody's pretty cool so far as they're concerned. They mainly focus on reading their holy book, which they are not quick to share with outsiders. The more you read, the better your chances in the cosmic realm. Sikhs are originally from the Punjab area of Northern India, sort of a warrior class. Traditionally, they never cut their hair or beards, wear turbans, a steel bracelet, and carry a curved knife. Their houses of worship are called Gurudwaras. In India, anyone can go to any Gurudwara anytime and be fed. Even if you're a fat American. They're very philosophical. Nice folks generally.

-- witness (noway@hotmail.com), September 14, 2001.