Sven-Goran Eriksson's appointment was an insult to English coaches and League Managers.

This from the obviously very knowledgeable John Barnwell, current League Manager's Association chief.

A plonker ? I'd say 'Yes', quite loudly.

Using that approach we might as well label it an insult to the English equivalent to put any foreigner in any job.

And presumably, he'd include Scots, Welsh and Irish in the 'foreign' category.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Answers

Absolute Plonker.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

People can be wrong PB....I was about this....

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

I was also but having said that , the managers before did not really have a Ashley cole, S Gerard , fully mature Owen , fit and able Hesky.

So maybe Keegan / Hoddle would have faired similar with todays team....

Ken

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Nah Sorry Kenny....I think it's more than the players....it's the style of play and confidence he's instilled in them....

Still not convinced about Heskey mind....

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

get the best person for the job every time. Maybe being English is a bad thing for the national manager as you are too emotionaly involved.

Motivation and tactics are the 2 key ingredients. Keegan was top at motivating but duff on tactics(by his own admission). I think at national level tactics are more important than motivation. If players can't motivate themselves to play on the world stage then it's a lost cause.

SGE can choose the players and tactics and no further motivation should be necessary.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

The hints I get, admittedly all second hand via the media, are that the difference has had a lot to do with the way he's made the players think about themselves, rather than anything he's doing differently in coaching etc.

It's a fair point that Keegan and Hoddle didn't have a fully fit squad to pick from, but from just past performances - Keegan does a runner when the going gets a bit rough, and Hoddle has some peculiar ideas, to put it mildly - I'm not sure that either of them have it in them to 'talk' players into playing to their full potential.

I also got an impression that there was a bit of League v FA in the piece. If my memory serves, a lot of the possible Brit candidates were distancing themselves from the job anyway, so it takes on hints of sour grapes a bit, I reckon.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Gav Ok we played ok and up front we were outstanding , but remember the krauts missed 2 or 3 absolute cast iron SITTERS.

so the defence isnt up to much - bit like watching the toon really..

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Kenny, i'm not an england fan so i'm definitely not getting carried away with anything....I thought Campbell and Ferdinand at the back were a joke.....however I can't help but be impressed with the pace, movement, closing down and attacking flair of that england team the other night....

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

It looked a canny bit slow to me , but hey id allready had 5 pints before kick off so everything looked slow to me.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

This is bulk standard jingoistic cr@p, and Barnwell should be taken to task for risking upsetting the apple cart at a critical time.

The brutal reality of the situation was that there wasn't a single realistic English candidate for the job, apart perhaps from going backwards and appointing Venables. That Venables was even a contender provides the clearest possible indication of the state of affairs the FA faced.

So, in this situation, precisely who was it that the FA "insulted" - bah, humbug!

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

From the fiver:

QUOTE OF THE DAY: JEFF POWELL SPECIAL "So, the mother country of football, birthplace of the greatest game, has finally gone from the cradle to the shame. We've sold our birthright down the fjord to a nation of seven million skiers and hammer throwers who spend half their lives in darkness." - Jeff Powell, Daily Mail, November 3 2000

"England are back. Back with such a vengeance that our bright young men and their courteous Swedish manager may indeed have changed the face of the game." - Jeff Powell, Daily Mail, September 3, 2001

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Ashley Cole was lucky to be on the pitch with about 3 mistimed tackles landing the Germans on their arse. The Italian ref was obviously in a generous mood. I've said my bit about Campbell and Ferdinand...£18m eh...pah!

Oh Sol and Rio
Give in for me
Seen better defending
At the Toon Army

Ahem. Thing is, England lost to Holland who then lost to a 10 man Irish side. England beat a very average if not below average German side who gave up after 3-1. And as said, the Germans should have scored 2ce more. Expect a reasonable result tomorrow, but no way can the papers seriously expect last Saturday to be taken as a precursor to a World Cup win. France and Brazil would still take England to the cleaners.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Few people are saying England are yet the finished article, Bobby. However, they have made dramatic progress in a very short period of time since SGE took over, and are a young side that can only get better - especially when they sort out the defence (now where've I heard that before?).

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

sol in spanish is sun, rio is river. river and sun, is sge a witch doctor?

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Saturday's result was a freak. We played very well in front of the defence and Seaman Stains made a great save to keep us in it just before halftime. But we could easily have gone in 2 or 3-1 down and I fear the score would have been reversed.

I've felt for a while that the Jormans weren't a very good side and they showed this on Saturday. But the main thing is, as Clarky points out, this is a very youg England team. Dunno the actual stats, but with the exception of Seaman and possibly Neville and Barmpot (?) the rest of the starting lineup could be around as a unit for the next two world cups.

As for SGE, I'd have preferred an English manager and at the time I favoured Vegetables but I have to say, I have been impressed with SGE - both as a man and with the results (tho not necessarily every performance) since he took over. Ee, this hindsight stuff is easy, innit.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Pants to the lot of ya!!!

So what that Germany didn't take their chances!! We did and thats what separates the winners from the losers. Say Germany did score to make it 2-1 and then we missed all our chances in the second half. The papers would be saying that England aren't good enough and the strikers were poor. Thats football, you either take your chances or you don't.

Lets keep the good feeling going, christ, I'm sick of being pessimistic and down hearted. In fact I'm going to be that with the toon from now on(optimistic that is). Being pessimistic breeds bad results IMHO.

AM

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

I'm with you Awaymag. First of all, it's all too easy to dismiss our performance by saying Germany are cr@p - like ourselves they are rebuilding, but they certainly are not cr@p.
I was only reading an article last week saying what a fantastic job The Gobber (can't think of his name, but whenever I see him I think of him gobbing in the face of a Dutch player a few years ago) has done to rebuild the German side in a short time.

I thought we were weak defensively, but that shouldn't detract from what was a fantastic display of attacking and finishing skill. It was an excellent performance from a rapidly developing team - and a large part of the credit should go to a brilliant Coach, who we should be delighted to have under contract rather then displaying the usual pathetic jingoism.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

His name is Rudi Voller I refer to him as Rudi Hockler the man is a disgusting apology of a man

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Clarky - there's nowt wrong with preferring an English man to manage the English team. But as the rules stand, I'm happy with SGE (indeed, if we qualify, I might even think about........nah, better not go there). I know this argument can't stand if it is taken to it's (il)logical conclusion, but here goes anyway............

If we accept that it is OK to have a non-National as manager, then why can't we have non-Nationals playing for us? Clearly there would have to be some qualification, a bit like cricket where you have to be resident or play in the country for a period. I don't really see the difference - the manager (and coaching staff) can have as much influence on the results as the players on hte pitch. Where I think this possibly falls down is at what point in the hierarchy would the "nationals only" stop at?

I dunno - just call me a traditionalist - not jinoistic I hope. But proud to be an Englishman - especially the morra night, when for a short period at least, we'll have Sven Geordie Erikson ;-)

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

BTW PB. I'm not against "foreigners" like the Scots, Welsh and Irish having any job. But specific jobs are an entirely different ball game (?) altogether. Would you have expected George Best to represent England???

Rules are rules, and in the current state, it's fine to have a non-National as coach/manager.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

It was a great result on Saturday and it's a great opportunity to get all hyperbolic about having a World Beating Team England but can I just say that from where I was sat, we weren't that good. Had Germany had a half decent striker (like Thierry Henry or someone), we'd have been f....d because the England defence was laughable. The Germans were pisspoor - when we beat France 5-1 (or even 1-0) we can start predicting greatness.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

great striker??? Tierry Henry??

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Hang on! hang on!
Wasn't Rudi Voller the spat upon - if I recall correctly it was Frank Rijkard(sp?) doing the gobbing.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

You're right Heeds...it was Rjikard who spat on Voller.....disgusting...

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

They spat on eachother didnt they , However Vovver has been known to gob on many people

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Yes, he hockled on Voller - but only after a torrent of racial abuse (allegedly) from him.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Me as well, Awaymag. I want us to win the world cup, and if it takes a Swede to get the best out of our players to do it, that's okay by me.

Screach,
I think you're prising the lid off a can of worms considering things like Best playing for England. To tell the truth, I hadn't even considered that aspect when I spouted off about Barnwell.

I think it would make a complete mockery of international competition if a national side could include players not of the particular nationality.

I mean we're just about on the verge of that now - your eighth cousin, 25 times removed was Tibetan, so if you have no chance of representing your country of birth, try for Tibet.

Whether or not having a foreign manager should be seen in the same light is something on which I'll reserve judgement until SGE has come up with the goods, or not. Hypocrisy ? Maybe, but if we did happen to win the world cup with him as manager, I bet I wouldn't be alone in saying the end justified the means.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

can i gob on this?

did you know...sge is a relative of field marshall montgomery, now if the bloke doesn't get accepted after this piece of trivia then he never will!!!

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Somebody who has been ignored in all our joy has been Lee Bowyer, if he gets off from his eventual trial then he'll be straight into the England squad. With him and Dyer the midfield looks superbly young and strong.

Owen and Heskey will last a long time together, and F****r is only 26, and Alan Smith has a big match temperament, so forwards look fine.

Ashley Cole has played about 40 games in his professional career so he will only improve. Gary Neville is a sound enough right back, the great worry is the centre halves haven't gelled and both have London connections so will continue to get good press until a disaster hits them.

It's churlich not celebrate victories cos we will surely criticise the defeats when they return

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

don't you mean churchill?

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Macbeth "Gary Neville is a sound enough right back,"
What R U on Mac you usually talk such sence. Neville is a two footed challenger he will give away needless free kicks and pens . Just look at the under 21's for a good right back , God knows why barton keeps him out of the team.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

I'm sure I read somewhere that Dabz god-mother had a stopover at Heathrow when returning from visiting relatives in New york.

Surely we could get him an English passport?

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Just a passport Clarky ? That puts him on a par with Charlie in the line of succession. :-))

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Dabs and Nobby share the same passport

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

I have trouble telling them apart.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Come on Screach - I thought we'd put all this garbage about a foreign manager to rest. It is a fact that international teams since the year dot have been managed by people not of that nationality. George Rayner, an Englishman, took the Swedes to the World Cup Final as long ago as 1958. Most of the Third World countries have employed foreign coaches to great effect both internationally and in the development of their game. Did you complain about Big Jack and Ireland or did you bask in the glory when they got a good result?

We have foreign Cricket coaches in charge of England. We have foreign Rugby coaches in charge of Wales. We've had blokes with all sorts of foreign blood in the government in recent years. We've even got a bloody prime minister from Scotland.

Why can't you just accept you were wrong about SGE and stop trying to talk your way out of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

typo in there, Jacko - I assume you meant ".....most other Third World countries...." (Short political statement. I thank you.)

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Jacko - if you read what I wrote, I said I'm happy with SGE. As far as the rules go, then we could have a Martian as manager (and some would say we have had worse). But it doesn't stop me being idealistic and dreaming of the day that England would be represented by a team and backroom who were all English.

I doubt if we would have won 5-1 against the Jormans if El Tel had been in charge - but then again, if we were to play them again next Saturday, we wouldn't either. Erikson has done a good job (I'll leave the "great" until we qualify).

The point about cricket works both ways. If you're happy to see foreign coaches, and they allow foreign players, then why shouldn't football? That is certainly a road I wouldn't want to go down. As PB says - the rules are being bent quite far enough right now on that front.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

I'm sure everyone would prefer an English Coach to be leading our naitional side. However, there were simply NO suitable candidates, and therefore the FA did the correct thing.

Instead of criticising the FA's action, and wringing our hands, we should be figuring out why there is such a dearth of English coaching talent, and why one Jock and two Frenchmen are the currently the most successful Coaches in the PL.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Clarky - I don't see many dissing SGE. Indeed the oppositie. But I do sense some realism and recognition that we shouldn't get carried away over one result. Ask me again this time tomorrow night! If I've still got a smile on my face, ask me again in a month's time ;-))

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

This business about bending the rules re international qualification etc. Am I being a div here or didn't Alfredo di Stefano play for three different countries - I have it in the back of me mind that he played for Argentina, Spain and I think the other one was Columbia? If my memory isn't playing tricks this would suggest that the rules have been considerably straightened since the 1950s!

Some of you may be able to confirm that I'm talking out of my backside here (no change there then!)

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

I think you could be right Jacko (I seem to remember me Dad telling me something about it). although it's seems to be taking a long time, they do indeed seem to be straightening the rules. Now that the playing side is sorted, all they have to do now is sort out the coaches and managers :-D

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

I think if we trace our family trees back far enough to the days when our families were being formed in the North East of England, they were almost certainly Swedish types. So this is only a natural circle being neatly formed. ALSO we have had a turnip, so what is so new with a Swede?

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2001

I thought most roots trace back to Saxons, hence all the amusing place names across the region of Northumbria. If we go back further, then probably we're more Romanian Celts, or even further Madagascan...in fact, if you go right back to pre-history I think you'll find we're all related to Peyter Reyd!

I honestly hope the national sport will again have a national coach who is English. But meantime, if you support England you've got to support the coach...until a short run of bad results.

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2001

Not being weighted down with a stifling array of cliches must be a bonus as well. SGE is probably the first England manager to actually speak English. All the rest of them stand there and talk about "setting our stall out", "belt and braces" and "get them on the tic-tac-toe" until they are forcibly removed, foaming at the mouth and reintroduced as commentators. 5 minutes of Big Fat Ron gives you some idea of the gibberish players have been offered for years in place of meaningful directions.

Now it's all, "Oh, you want me to pass to someone on our side, how novel, I'm sick as a parrott." Get rid of the mixed metaphors and other old bollocks and you usher in a period of communication.

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2001

I think "intelligence" or "intellect" are the words you're really searching for Softie - filthy, elitist, uncool words, I realise. Something I suspect SGE has in common with Arsene Wenger and Gerrard Houiller (ptuh!) - but it could be purely a coincidence that they've all been highly successful.
This contrasts starkly with the fact that there wasn't a single 'no-compromise' English candidate for SGE's current job.

Clearly, there's more to this footy management lark than a Masters Degree in Mixed Metaphors and Tea-Cup Throwing.

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2001

Also calmness, poise and an aura of quiet authority. In the immediate aftermath of the Munich game he seemed so composed and collected, already talking about the next game and the dangers of euphoric expectations. Impressive.

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2001