Everyone is mentioning the nice sound and music produced by the M3 (or M6). Each speed has its own signature. How do they differ? My M3 is working great but at low speed (1s, 1/2, 1/4 ), there is a noise after the shutter closes, like a mechanical timer. When using B, there is nosuch music at all. Is this normal? Should I send it to Leica for a check-up?

-- Angelique (abischop@earthlink.com), August 31, 2001

Answers

This is completely normal. If you listen closely, at 1/15 the aftersound should be like a small ball bearing bouncing. At 1/8 and slower you'll hear a low-pitched buzz. As I understand it this is the low-speed gear train unwinding. It's only if you don't have this sound that you should worry.

-- Paul Chefurka (chefurka@home.com), August 31, 2001.

Hi Angelique,

Rest easy. That sound is normal and common on all Leica M cameras. All three of my M's do it. Can't say I know why but It's nothing to worry about. The last camera I sent to Leica for a CLA was an M4 that I had just purchased and it felt a lot better when I got it back. If your M3 has never had a CLA and you don't know the history of the camera it might be a good idea to give it a cleaning.

Regards T. Gallagher

-- Tom Gallahgher (tgallagher10@yahoo.com), August 31, 2001.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), September 01, 2001.

IMHO these sounds are so much nicer than the nothingness (hey - a new word) of todays electronic cameras where you have no idea that anything is happening.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), September 01, 2001.

I went to Pro photo (Washington DC) to check speed accuracy. ALl speeds are dead on except 1/8 (which is really far off) and 1/15, which is off (it showed 1/18). That is really not bad fr a 37 year old camera! Repair + LCA would cost $250, and 3 - 4 weeks wait ... Cheaper than what Leica Repair would cost ... and he is a Leica official retailer. Is it worth? How should I wait more serious problem?

-- Angelique (abischop@earthlink.com), September 01, 2001.

Sounds pricey just to get a shutter speed adjusted, if you were happy wih it otherwise. But you would be getting a CLA out of it. You might shop a bit. Maybe check with John Van Stelton in Colorado, or Sherry Krauter, who seems to come highly recommended here.

1/18 is within specs, I think, for the 1/15 speed. +/- 20%. How far off is "really far off" for the 1/8 speed?

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), September 01, 2001.

Angelique- Before paying for a repair, try firing the camera at each of the two 'bad' speeds for 10-15 minutes. Sometimes they just need to be exercised.

When I got my M4-P, the speeds 1/2 to 1/8 would ocassionally NOT have the "mechanical timer" sound after firing, and then the next shot would be at something like 1/30 instead of the correct speed. I fired it off for maybe 25-30 exposures at each troubled speed and the problem diminished and continues to improve with more and more use.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), September 01, 2001.

Andy,

this is exactly what is happening. SOme time at 1/8, the "mechanical timer" sound is present sometimes not. I will try what you suggest for a week and see what happens next. The sound of the 1/15 is normal compared to a M6 but it is slightly off.

-- Angelique (abischop@earthlink.com), September 01, 2001.

Angelique -- to back up what others say, yes, the slow speed sound is perfectly normal. Mechanical shutters have less tolerance than electronic ones - meaning their stated and actual speeds may differ, but if the speeds are consistent and you get consistently good results, why worry? The fastest shutter speed is liable to be the most suspect, but apparently on some early Leicas the slow speeds no longer function at all. Of course, they can all be fixed. Another concern is the light-tightness of the shutter, a potential hazard on all old Leicas. Shoot a few frames without a lens fitted to test this out. The celebrated Stephen Gandy at www.cameraquest.com has lots of good advice. See his M buyers' guide. To quote just a couple of points:

"The first thing experienced buyers do is listen to the one second speed. It should be smooth, relatively on time, and without hesitation. A M camera weak point is slow speeds which are way too slow or hang up entirely. Remedy cost: $100-200 overhaul

* Open up the back and watch the shutter through all  speeds. Every time you change speeds, you should be able to tell a definite difference in the shutter speed as the shutter is held up against a light."

* On 1/15th, you should be able to definitely hear the whirling of two different speed gears.

Hope this is of help. Enjoy your M3. Cheers, Davi

-- David Killick (Dalex@inet.net.nz), September 03, 2001.

David,

The slow speeds are really accurate. The only problem is 1/8 which is far off (it sounds and looks like 1/125). The funny thing though is that if I hold the camera upside down then 1/8 sounds as it should and is definetely between 1/4 and 1/16. Any idea of why this is happening?

You mention 100-200 for repair? Where? Leica seems reliable but they might charge $300 or even more...may be it is worth doing with an overhaul so I am safe for the next 10 years. But I am sure a specialist could do it as well ... I don't know what to do though!

-- Angelique (abischop@earthlink.com), September 03, 2001.

Did you just buy the camera? If so, I would try to return it. It takes a certain amount of experience (and luck) to find a good user M. There are a lot of them out there but it is not uncommon to look at several before deciding on one. (Or before simply walking out of the store.) If you live close enough to a big city with a good used camera store, I would make a pilgrimage to said store and look VERY closely at everything they have. (It wouldn't be a bad idea to take an experienced Leica user with you.) Otherwise, find a reputable out- of-town dealer, one who is honest and really knows his Leicas. I suggest Camera West here in Monterey.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), September 03, 2001.

I want to add that M2s & M3s are OLD cameras and, in my experience, the great majority of them that you will find on dealer shelves have problems. (Inaccurate shutter speeds, pinholes in the shutters, dirty and/or misaligned rangefinders and winding/film transport issues are among the most common.) Most dealers don't know and/or don't care, do not want to invest the money to have them serviced, and will simply pass the problems on to the unsuspecting consumer. And what is true for old M's is also true for old Hassys and Nikon F's. You MUST get to know these cameras intimately if you are going to deal in them.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), September 03, 2001.

Peter, I want to keep this camera, it has a personal meaning to me. In any case one speed that is not working is not a dramatic problem. The cost of an overhaul should be between $200 and $300. My concern is where to do it. Leica offers a 1-year warranty ... and the service has a great reputation. Maybe my local repair shop (and Leica dealer) will do the same job as well!

-- Angelique (abischop@earthlink.com), September 03, 2001.

Angelique -- I live in New Zealand though I have relatives in New Jersey and have heard some of the New York City dealers are good (try Photo Village). However I feel it may be worth your while biting the bullet and paying the money for an authorised Leica service. They can even replace the whole shutter if necessary. That way you know you have a 100 per cent reliable camera that will stay that way several lifetimes. Good luck!

-- David Killick (Dalex@inet.net.nz), September 04, 2001.

But make sure first the M3 is really the camera you want to keep.

-- David Killick (Dalex@inet.net.nz), September 04, 2001.

If I am sure I want to keep the M3? There is no doubt about it! I love it, I find it much more attrative and beautiful than the M6 (the red circle on the front of the camera is badly designed and should not be there). The M3 has some limitation compared to the M6. The one that bothers me most is the absence of frames below 50mm. Besides, the two are very similars.

-- Angelique (abischop@earthlink.net), September 05, 2001.