Last time I was at my photo dealer ( in munich / germany) they just sold the their last example of the 1.5/50 Nokton for about 370 US$ new/boxed. Since this is a price not everyone can withstand (and I only have a russian sonnar as a 50mm)I asked them, if they get other ones. They told me, that these are going to be replaced with identical ones in M-mount in mid 2002 and they wouldn't get the M39 any more. So my question: Has anyone heard the same about Voigtlaender switching to M-mount ?

Thanks - Kai

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), August 28, 2001

Answers

This sounds like bull to me. Voigtlander best sellers cameras are still the Bessa R and L which are screwmount cameras... The T being without viewfinder, I doubt it will replace the R...

-- Xavier Colmant (xcolmant@powerir.com), August 28, 2001.

It seems like the whole point of the Voigtlander cameras is to provide owners of older LTM cameras with a compatible modern system-- and M users can still use all the lenses on their cameras. I can't see any advantage at all to making the lenses in M mounts. It's not like the owners of M cameras are too poor to afford $30 adapters!

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), August 28, 2001.

It seems like the whole point of the Voigtlander cameras is to provide owners of older LTM cameras with a compatible modern system-

Hmmm surely it was to fit their L and R cameras? The screw mount Leica market has got to be pretty small (much much smaller than the M market). I for one think that they should have produced the Bessas in the M mount to start with, but I think the patent had not expired when they launched the cameras at first.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), August 28, 2001.

If I did understand the dealer right, he said that the Bessa L and R are going to be replaced within 1 or 2 years (with M-mounted ones ?). This shouldn't be too much work for Cosina and would make their bodies really interesting. But is that more than a guess, has anybody heard of similar rumours ?

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), August 28, 2001.

Though the Canadian distributor for Voigtlander says he's heard nothing of the above....I think if anything they (Voigtlander) have shown they are capable of more than a few surprises.........

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), August 28, 2001.

"Hmmm surely it was to fit their L and R cameras? The screw mount Leica market has got to be pretty small. . . "

If that was the point, they could have just as easily come up with a completely new mount, a better one--for instance another bayonet mount, different from the Leica one. There's certainly no shortage of precedence for that strategy among camera makers.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), August 28, 2001.

I dont believe this will ever happen. Screw mount lenses can be used on any M but NOT the other way around (with as much ease). Voigtlanders market has clearly been towards supplying lenses not only for their screw mount cameras but to others like Canon, Leica thread cameras and other Leica copies. Their lens sales would be only a quarter of what they are now and its that volume which permits the low prices they currently enjoy. If you can use a screw mount lens WITHOUT penatly on a M via and adapter its inconceivable to sacrifice three quarters of your actual sales. I often read complaints as to why they were never made in M mount to begin with, I can never understand this complaint when you can own a one lens that can be used on both your M mount and LTM cameras at the same time. Cosina have clearly stated that even though they will make a M mount camera like the Bessa T they wil NOT be making M mount lenses for the reasons specified above and even make M mount adapters themselves for users that need them.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), August 28, 2001.

There was a time in the late 1950's when Leica was transitioning from LTM to M mount when they simply added the M mount to the existing threads and locked it with a set screw. The 35mm Summicron of 1958 was made this way (ref: "Leica Collector's Guide" by Dennis Laney), and today many collectors are being cheated by being sold "rare" LTM models of this lens, which were actually M mount lenses with the set screw and adapter removed. Collector's guides warn potential buyer on how to ensure this is not the case by checking for the set screw hole, indication the "manufactured" collector's item.

I would not think that if V'lander wanted to offer the existing lenses with the M adapter "permanently" mounted ala the Leica procedure from the '50s, that it would be that much of an engineering hurdle. I would much prefer to buy a lens and snap it on my camera out of the box,without shopping for an adapter. LTM mounts could then still be offered, simply by not adding the M adaptor. With volume, it could be that the "M mount" V'landers could come in under the price of the lens and additional adaptor today.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), August 28, 2001.

Well, all I can say is that it is very weird that Cosina should want to make a whole new set of lenses for people who use old cameras even more ancient (most totally unsupported) than M users, who now apparently make up three quarters of their market. They must have deep pockets! If this is true then god help them. I doubt this, I suspect they want their R and L cameras to be a success in their own right and to establish a niche. What I am interested to know if whether this is happening - or are they just selling cheap lenses to old screw mount r/f users (who, I am sorry, I cannot believe are a large crowd), and M users looking for something much cheaper. Maybe their costs are much lower than Leicas, but I cannot see how they can afford to keep it up unless their own cameras are selling too.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), August 29, 2001.

AS I understand it, the president of Cosina/Voigtländer is a Leica enthusiast. The initial plunge into making Leica screw mount lenses was to supply the large marketplace of Japanese LTM camera collectors and users with modern lenses for their cameras at an attractive price. The Bessa bodies came later, as others saw the quality of the C/V lenses and wanted to use them on a new body.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), August 29, 2001.

Godfrey's on the money, as most of the interviews with Cosina's president indicate. He has a personal collection of SM Leicas -had 'em for years before coming to Cosina.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), August 29, 2001.

Ok guys I stand corrected. All I can say is that it seems less really like a sound business decision, more a whim in that case by a real enthusiast. We Leicaphiles should certainly be grateful.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), August 30, 2001.

Robin: I think you're right on the money about the 'whim of an enthusiast.' But I believe it has been a money-maker for CV - the Japanese market alone saw to that. The U.S. is just the gravy at this point. Erwin refers to Cosina's "hobby" in his review summing up all the new Contax/Konica/V'lander systems.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), August 31, 2001.