This is a theoretical question and probably has no answer anyway, but I am so wound up right now that I feel the need to vent, so here goes. I am having a bad roommate day. I let a guy move in 2 weeks ago. I realized pretty quickly that it wasn't going to work out but I tried to be patient and compromise, etc to make it work. No good, so today I called him at work and asked him to make other arrangements. Naturally he was unhappy, but he went on to say that he is nearly broke, has only $20 to last him 2 weeks, has no place else to go, blah, blah, blah. Now it occurred to me that this is a 40 year old, healthy male with no dependents, no child suport, no alimony, no car payment, etc. Not sure, buy I don't think he has any huge debts to pay off. He works for a car dealer, has a $250/week draw plus commission on whatever he sells. He does have a dog but he doesn't spend much on her! I had to trim her nails for him, her ears and teeth stink and she hasn't been bathed recently so I know he isn't spending a lot on veterinary care, and he's been feeding her my dog food for the last week or so. He doesn't do drugs, though I know he drinks beer cause he drank all mine and then bought some for himself, but I don't think he's a heavy drinker. I don't know what he does with his money. But, here's the question- if you are 40 years old and healthy and you can't earn a living wage at your job, why not do something about it? Either work more hours, get a better job, or get a second job temporarily to tide you over. Why let yourself live so close to the edge that you can't even afford to feed yourself and your dog? I know that not everyone aspires to own land and homestead like most of us here on the forum, and not everyone aspires even to the American Dream of owning their own home. But, you still have to provide for your own basic needs and I can't believe that it is so hard to do that. I put myself through college by working 4 part time minimum wage jobs. I was a theater major which required that I put in 20 hours of free labor each week on school productions. In addition I designed most of the student productions while I was there which also took up large amounts of time. And I still maintained a 4.0 average most semesters. And no, I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer and all of that was still pretty manageable. In fact, I thrived on it. As a result of my own experiences I don't have a lot of patience when people tell me that they can't go to school because their parents can't afford it, or they can't get a student loan, or whatever. I don't understand when people say they can't get a decent job because they don't have a degree- I dropped out of school early because I took what I thought was a 3 month summer job working for a band which then turned into a 3 year world tour. I realized that I wanted to keep working for bands which did not require a degree so I quit school. I have done pretty well without a degree so I don't buy that excuse. I frequently read posts from people on this and other forums who are trying to achieve their dreams, whatever the dream might be, and I sometimes wonder why they don't just get up and get another job if their present job is not sufficient to meet their needs. I realize that for some people this is not always possible (Sojourner, for example, who lives in a rural area where there aren't a lot of jobs available). I realize that most people don't want to make a career of a minimum wage job, let alone two of them. But it seems to me that if you really want something you would also be willing to expend whatever effort was required to do so, especially if it involved a sacrifice which would only be temporary, until your needs were met. I guess that I am so easily frustrated because frequently I am asked for advice from people who see what I have achieved and want to do the same. I give them all the same advice- work hard, live cheaply, and save your money until you can afford whatever it is you want. Worked for me. Worked for my parents before me. But never have I known anyone to take that advice. Instead, they sit around and grumble about how they can't have what someone else has. Well, Someone Else got off their tail, turned off the tv, and went to work. Seems like a no brainer to me. Maybe other readers can provide some insight that would ease my impatience and frustration, cause I just don't get it.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), August 27, 2001

Answers

My guess is that their are a sizable number of people out there who would rather grumble and complain about what other people have, as that is easier than getting off your duff and doing something about it. And a sizable number of people will almost always take the easy way out. Especially if they can find a "co-dependent" who will help them do it.

-- fred (fred@mddc.com), August 27, 2001.

Don't even waste time trying to figure out people like him. Anyone who drinks beer and has a dog yet can't even provide for himself definitely doesn't have his priorities right. Those kind of people never learn as long as they can find people to sponge off of. I wonder how long this guy has been selling cars. Most car dealers will hire anyone on the spot and give them a shot for 3 months, 9 out of 10 don't make it, huge turnover but the 3 month greenpeas serve a purpose for them to have coverage on the lot. After listening to his sob story, I'd say well it's pretty bad that YOU got YOURSELF in this position but don't make it my problem too. Afterall, you just wanted to rent a room, not take on a charity case.

Do you ask for references, etc and screen people first? If not, it'd probably save alot of problems in the future. Make sure you protect yourself beforehand, nightmares start with people like him.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), August 27, 2001.

Elizabeth...

put everything you have of value under lock and key, give him his 2 week notice .. in writing.

This is the way he is going to get to stay.... GUILT!!!!! he is going to make you feel guilty because he has no where else to go, boo hoo, no money, poor me, and what about my doggy? And you will fall for it. (know how I know? cause you posted this trying to better understand him and you didn't throw his hiney out then post what a jerk this guy was.) ,You are a person with honor!

He is a user...you already said he drank your beer but bought himself more. He didn't go out and buy beer and mix it with yours to share, noticing you were running out and bought more. I don't drink beer, but if you send me beer money I will buy wine.

He is feeding his dog your dog's food. That is really very nice of you! I have 2 dogs that could use more dog food...and by the way I don't feed the cheapy stuff either..so please send me $40.00 so I can feed mine too.

You say "you don't know what he does with his money" well one thing for sure he ain't buying dog food or beer!!!!! is he drinking your milk? opening up cans of soup or beans or ??? bet if he is so bold as to drink your beer and feeding his dog your dog food, he is bold enough to eat your food, use your laundry detergent, toilet paper, and maybe even run up your phone bill! To save shipping and handeling on all those items..please enclose a check payable to me.

I figure if you are going to support this guy you might as well support me...I mean what is one more person to support? I know you don't need the extra money for your RETIREMENT! or PORTFOILO! or PAYING OFF YOUR HOUSE!

ok, serious now :) what ever money you are getting in rent is costing you in other areas. Get rid of this leech. He will try the guilt and when that doesn't work he will get mad...remember what I said about keeping things under lock and key.

This man is a person without honor.

-- westbrook (westbrook_farms@yahoo.com), August 27, 2001.

Show him the way to the door!!

-- DW (djwallace@ctos.com), August 27, 2001.

To clarify a couple of things- 1. yes, the guy is also eating my food, using my laundry detergent, even using my toiletries for crying out loud. And he hasn't been one bit shy about things like remodeling my dog pen to suit his desires either, amongst other things. How did you guys know? LOL! 2. He is on his way out the door. I told him in no uncertain terms that this arrangement is ending. He did try to offer some suggestions for changes to improve things so he could stay, but you guys are right, he is a taker and I am not interested in supporting him and his dog. I did give him a week's notice because he has to find a place where he can keep the dog, and I know he has to work all week but that is all. In one week he leaves whether he has found a place or not. I am a pretty generous person but he has already taken advantage of my hospitality and I will NOT enable him to continue to do so.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), August 27, 2001.

Oh, and Dave, thank you for the bit of info you provided about car dealers. He has worked there for a little over 2 months. So, if he isn't earning a living yet I guess he isn't the top salesman there. I definitely want him out before he loses that job in a month or so. If he isn't earning a living now, I wonder what he'll do then? I'd really wind up supporting him. Disappointing for me, though, because I have almost always had really good roommates- this is a rare occurrance for me, though I have heard horror stories from others with roommates.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), August 27, 2001.

I am not clear about the living arrangement. Is he just renting a room in your own house? Tell him to move out or you'll dump his stuff and change the locks. If there is nothing in writing between the two of you (he just showed up), you should be okay doing this, since it is YOUR property. If he won't leave quietly, call the police, and then change the locks. If this is a separate rental property of yours you'll have to go through the evictions process, of course--no locking out or turning off the utilities or anything like that.

If you are in a rental (you are in an apartment or other rental housing), and he is not on the rental agreement, the landlord would sure like to know, and will help you get rid rid of him. Most rental agreements have strict rules about subletting of any sort (and you might be breaking a "no extended visitors" rule at the very least anyway), and you could also be evicted for breaking the agreement.

Unless this guy and you go way back, don't be so sure he doesn't have other obligations--some (by no means all) guys won't get jobs out of spite when they have to pay child support.

However you go about it, BOOT 'IM.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), August 27, 2001.

sorry to hear all that,,what a winner he sounds like. Making himself right at home real quick, I'm surprised he hasn't tried to crawl in your bed too lol. I wonder where he was living before he came to your place. It amazes me that people that old can act like that.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), August 27, 2001.

oddly enough Dave the guy was living in an apartment before he came here, and I did confirm that he had paid the rent and was in good standing there before he moved in with me. But, his story was that he had met a girl at a church function, started dating, they moved in together and then got engaged. This I could not confirm because the fiancee is gone, obviously it was a bad breakup. He claimed that he had no money because she had wiped him out. But, AFTER he moved in he told me that he had also been previously engaged to someone else 6 months earlier. Who gets engaged twice in 6 months! Now, after seeing him in action, I wonder if he really was engaged. Maybe he met these girls, decided he wanted to get married, and just kind of moved in on them. Thankfully he knew before he moved in that I am very firmly attached to my yuppie boyfriend. And as a matter of fact, I keep my bedroom door locked at night until I get to know a new roommate, so he would have been foiled had he made any advances there. Plus, I would kill any sob who ever attempted anything like that. Ah well, better luck next time.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), August 27, 2001.

Collecting strays is an interesting but seldom rewarding hobby.

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), August 28, 2001.

Maybe I am not understanding something here... but you say that you let the GUY move in as a ROOMMATE? And he told you he has a girlfriend elsewhere? Engaged to her? and You thought it was an honorable thing to allow him to move into your ROOM? Hmmm.

Guess I must have old fashioned standards. In both finances and morals. I really think they go together.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), August 28, 2001.

Elizabeth, did he pay you any rent at all? Renters rights are pretty standard, you have to give him 30 days notice. Perhaps he is as stupid as it sounds and he won't realize this. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 28, 2001.

Daffy, PLEASE! He isn't living in my ROOM, LOL! The term roommate simply means that he is renting a SPARE room in my house. And anyway, his ex-girlfriend already dumped him, I'm sure for some of the same reasons I am dumping him as a renter.

Vicki, you are correct, technically he should be given 30 days notice. But, he does not know that and I'm not telling him. I can't have him stay another 30 days because a) I can't afford to support him for that long; b)he and his dog are already causing minor damage to my house and I want them both out of here before they do any major damage. I think that if he did raise the question of notice I would get one of my male neighbors or relatives to run him off with force, if necessary. I can't see why I should have to keep someone under my roof when they are stealing from me and obviously cannot be trusted. I guess he could take me to court, if he could afford an attorney, but I don't think any judge in this county would find in his favor under the circumstances.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), August 28, 2001.

There are slightly different rules for renting rooms in one's own house--but your rental agreement for him, if you have one, also may put some additional rules as to notification.

If you think he may be a danger to you, don't wait, call the police to move him. Stealing is a reason you may want to call the police to escort him out. 30 days notice would not apply in these circumstances.

Your boyfriend puts up with this arrangement? He must be a saint. Not too many men would put up with any male roomies of their girlfriends, let alone a deadbeat roomie.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), August 28, 2001.

Honestly Liz, How many car salesman have you met that didn't lie? I mean as soon as you found out that he was a car salesman it should have been a "flashing warning". If I was you I would get rid of him as soon as I can cause there is no telling how many more hidden clauses you will find after it is too late.

-- Russell Hays (rhays@sstelco.com), August 28, 2001.

He sounds like a professional mooch.You can let someone move in rent free, feed them and when it comes time to kick them out you are the bad guy. Odd how that happens. He will not thank you for the few weeks you helped him but as the person putting him out on the street. Tell him the truth, you are feeling used and do not trust him. Get rid of him as soon as you can. If you want to be nice about it keep his dog for a week while he looks for new place. He is probably using your phone for long distance calls.

-- ed (edfrhes@aol.com), August 29, 2001.

Well, if you are living in FL I sure feel sorry for you! It takes an act of congress to get someone out of your house down there! Send him an eviction notice via registered mail.

Also, check out freeadvice.com. They cover all 50 states and have a lot of free legal advice.

-- Stephanie Nosacek (possumliving@go.com), August 29, 2001.