Well according to local press anyway. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm not sure about that. Both need to make amends I suppose but Shay's confidence looked shot on Tuesday and he doesn't command his area at the best of times. What do you think?

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

Answers

I'd drop them both. We have good quality deputies for both players who should be given their chance when the men in possession are not playing well.

There is perhaps an argument for Barton staying in as he played well at Chelsea, and apart from one glaring error didn't play all that badly against Troyes. However, imo Griffin is simply a better FB.

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

Not a decision I'd like to have to make, but that's one of the things being a manager's all about.

Does Bobby rest them on the strength of two iffy displays, which, if he's wrong, might clobber their confidence even more ? Or does he take a chance that it's behind them and leave them in hoping that his confidence will boost there's ?

I saw the chelsea game but not Troyes and I thought Barton wasn't too bad against Chelsea, so maybe resting Given might be a worthwhile compromise.

Like I say, glad it's bobby and not me.

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

The only worry I have is what this says to Stevie HArper and Andy Griffin. If I was them, I'd be really p!$$ed off. I can understand sticking with an unbeaten team (apart from an unimportant kick-about for Rob Lee) but just what does a player like Harper of Griffin have to do to get in the first team?

Anyway - it's only Alan "I research all my stories" Oliver's opinion. I fully expect Shearer to be in goal (take note, Clarky).

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

I don't know how many of you noticed - I certainly missed it amongst all the teeth gnashing and wailing about how Barton should be tarred and feathered and dragged out of dodge behind a horse - but Andy "better than Barton whatever the last 3 managers thought" Griffin failed to even make the bench on Tuesday. Far be it from me to say that a player with his extraordinary injury-record should perhaps have been missing through some bizarre, niggling, perplexingly hard to pinpoint injury, but I'm rather tired of having to point out that every time Barton has a stinker Griffin goes to ground. Nerves perhaps?

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

interesting point re Griff. A bit much to throw him into a derby for his first game of season i suppose.

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

A bit unlike you to go spreading unsubstantiated rumours isnīt it Softie? I mean I realise you think some of the Barton bashing goes too far and all that...

As for the thread, I bliddy well hope not. As Clarky (I think) keeps saying, what the hell do Stevie H and Andy Griff have to do to get a chance?

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

As my father said to me today (my old man said after seeing Gazza for the first time after 5 minutes - the b;ond headed lad is going to ber great) I think he's [Bobby} lost it.

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

Softie, Griff has been selected for the England U21s so he can't have had an injury of any sort in the past week.

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

Barton has proved his worth to us

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

So does this mean Griffin is becoming the new Stephen Glass?

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

When, mac, Sunday or Tuesday? The derbies are the games where you need the grafters and that means Barton. Man of the match against Chelsea for 90 minutes. Tell me again about Griffin in the Semi Final against Spurs and then try to come up with a single other memorable performance from him. That run in the semi was the only positive forward movement he's ever made hence his complete inability to do anything when he got up the other end. The only other time I've seen him really try to make a difference was against Leyton Orient when he was playing down the left and caught everyone on the hop by crossing first time left-footed. It was an absolute beauty but everyone was hanging back 10 yards to give him time to cut inside on his right. Sunderland won't give him that kind of room to cross, foget it. If he gets in today it'll be as part of an orthodox back four because his tackling is certainly better than Barton's, but I can't see it happening because we'd be depending on the midfield to create their own breaks and invite them in close to goal where Quinn will make mincemeat of the shrinking violets in the centre.

For the umpteenth time: not being Barton isn't a good enough reason to get a game. If we get a replacement it'll be someone ahead of the pair of them. Barton will give you 90 minutes and won't hide however tough it gets whilst Griffin's never has enough gas in the tank and simply disappears.

The key is how well Solano plays. If he's up for it and wants to take them on then he'll need a willing runner and that's Barton. He gets more touches in a game than any two midfielders thanks to making himself available. If he's so sh*te then they ought to stop passing to him like they did with Pistone and Quinn. Barton doesn't have the flair but he has the right attitude and will get up with Nobby a damn sight more than Rob Lee will.

Incidentally, defore anyone trots out the old chestnut about how hard it is to know how Griffin would perform because he hasn't been given the chance, I'm including umpteen highly uninspiring runouts with the stiffs where he fails to look like a good player slumming it. This is a level at which Andersson scored hattricks and Maric looked like a superstar.

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

Barton. He gets more touches in a game than any two midfielders thanks to making himself available.

Quite so. And it's an iron law of mathematics that the more you do the more mistakes you will make. And if you're Barton, then any mistake will bring the house down on you.

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

Just like this mornong, clearing up after Jonno left the place in a state.

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

Griffin's goal against Arsenal wasn't bad mind...he got forward that day...

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

........You need a team of grafters for a derby........!!!!!!!!

Sorry Softie I hate to disagree with you. Some grafters perhaps. If they use Gray and Arca down the left, I would rather have Griffin, Hughes anyone with pace over Barton. Never mind whether I like him or not. We will be crucified as we were against Troyes down that side. Every EPL manager would do it. They certainly bottled up our right hand side when we did not have a threat on the left in the last couple of seasons. This point is about the hard working sides not those like Leeds who thought we could not beat them.

The Bradfords and Charltons who we should have beaten 6-0 each game were tactically better than us. They closed down the players quickly, did not let us play the ball etc, just like Sunderland will today. We will stand off their players and let them run at us. They will attack us down their left with pace and hope to score 1 or 2. If they succeed early, there will not be a dramatic comeback as against troyes, they will not let us.

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

So then Gus. Your prediction is ........?

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

Never let sentiment get in the way hiro, just as I select every week in the EPL tipping comp I run, Newcastle win of course!

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

In the pre-match Booby Robson said of Barton (and I may have the wrong words but the right sentiment) "Warren is all about honesty and commitment and I (YBR) reward that with honest and commitment"

If I was in a negative frame of mind I could end up twisting that to mean we will never see the end of Lee, Speed, Barton and Shearer as they will alwyas have those attributes, regardless of the other skills which may also be relevant in a professional footballer.

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001