Need for Regular Maintenance?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Leica Photography : One Thread

Should Leica cameras have a CLA on a regular basis? I’ve always beleived in the benefits of regular maintenance, but it seems from some of the posts here that getting a CLA has sometimes caused as many problems as it has solved.

FYI my working outfit is an M4, that hasn’t been serviced in 20 years and seems to work fine, as well as a CLE that is starting to have a few problems after much intensive use.

I’ve also got an old model II, a CL, and a Nikon S2 that have been pretty much sitting on a shelf for decades.

Thanks in advance,

-- Jay D (jayd@netvigator.com), August 22, 2001

Answers

I'm pretty much a firm believer in 'if it ain't broke - don't fix it', and have been backed up on this by Kindermann Canada which has a very reputable repair dept. The only caveat would be cameras that have been sitting for a long time and whose lubricant has lost its elasticity. Sort of along the same lines (IMO) is a car comparison that was in Car and Driver about 15 years ago. They aquired two new cars of the same type and kept them for a 6 year period in there staff car pool with approximately the same use. One was given all the manufacturers suggested maintenance, the other, apart from oil changes was fixed only when it broke. After six years the cars were torn down, and it was found that the wear on both was about equal, but twice the money had been spent on the one with all the suggested maintenanc

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), August 22, 2001.

I think regular use is the thing that keeps the mechanical cameras alive. I use my M6 for 4 to 10 rolls a month, and even though I purchased it new in 1988, it is operationally flawless. I have no problems using lenses wide open or exposing slide film, because the rangefinder and shutter are dead on.

I also have a 1966 M2 that had never been serviced and was fine... until I left it behind while on a one year ('96-'97) over seas trip in which I only took my M6. When I returned home, the M2 was unusable. Every slow shutterspeed from 1/15th down suddenly became a defacto "B" setting, hanging up every time. Thirty years of constant use was erased by 13 months of storage. It was time for a CLA.

My personal philosophy is to "fix on failure". I have heard of horror stories of perfect cameras having "preventative maintenance" performed, which started a series of nagging problems that had not previously manifested. Unlike electronic cameras, which can just die with no warning, mechanical cameras will let you know when it is time for maintenance.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), August 22, 2001.


For what it's worth my experience on an old Leica and the info given me by Leica themselves.

My Leica III was built in 1936 and was then not used from 1953 till 1981. It has never been serviced but since 1981 has been used regularly (Al Smith's point.)

When I spoke with Leica about a used M6 I was buying they said that they are built for 400,000 shutter firings without major service. Of course knocks and abrasions could throw things out of synch but I strongly believe that servicing is more likely to do harm than good. (How many autos go into a garage and come out with more faults than they went in with ?) Whenever I see a camera with CLA against it I steer clear. Of course I may be missing a good one but I'd rather take that risk. The general condition of the camera speaks volumes for it's mechanical condition. My method is to listen and look.

-- Tony Brookes (gdz00@lineone.net), August 22, 2001.


Unlike electronic cameras, which can just die with no warning, mechanical cameras will let you know when it is time for maintenance.

I'd like to see some statistics on this. I've had two failures in the field. One was a Nikon FM whose shutter died, the other an Olympus OM camera whose mirror jammed. Unfortunately the latter happened while I was shooting a show for Polygram. Not the best time, and I had problems with my backup camera too. Neither problem was electronic.

I have carried my electronic cameras (usually a Mamiya 7) through the jungle in Central America and the desert in North Africa, through urban location in Europe and the US. No failures yet.

Maybe it relates to usage level, but I send my cameras in every few years to get them checked out. The last thing I really want is to be in a location that has never seen a Fed X truck and have something fail that should have been cleaned a few months earlier.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), August 22, 2001.


Jeff,

Everyone has their own experiences, and mine are the opposite of yours. I have lived in the heat and humidity of Thailand, the heat and dust of Saudi Arabia, the cold of Alaska and the constant drizzle of western Europe, and I have never had any of my Nikon F2's, FM2's or Leica M's fail suddenly. Every one of my Nikon and Canon autofocus cameras have failed without warning, and are no longer in the bag. I remember having to take the batteries out of my F100 every 5 or 6 frames because of static build-up on a cold dry day... not too fun or productive.

I'll go with what works for me. Even when I use my electronic cameras (F3's), there will be a mechanical camera in the bag.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), August 22, 2001.



Leicas are especially prone to losing the slow speeds if the camera sits for much time unused. I've handled Nikon F and F2s and Nikkormats after 20+ years of attic storage and they worked perfectly. Let an older Leica sit for a year and you may need to get it serviced. I exercise my older Leicas every 2-3 months at least, firing the shutter 3-4 times at each speed and they are fine. As to whether a CLA causes more harm than good, that all depends on who does it.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), August 22, 2001.

I'll go with what works for me.

But in this case, you may have been on some end of the statistical curve, just as I may have, and that can change at any time. Unless there is more data, there isn't much that can be said for sure on this subject. There are stories from every end on almost everything.

What "goes for me" is that when I travel, there is someone who will ship another Mamiya 7 body (I can't really carry two, nor do I need to own two) to the nearest Fed X-able location. I would do the same with a mechanical camera.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), August 22, 2001.


If you are not going to have your camera CLAed regularly, every five years for heavy use or every ten years for amateur use; then, make sure you have it at least listened to by an experienced leica tech at those intervals. Lubricants do not last forever. They dry out leaving the base material behind to gum up the works. I was at a Leica clinic with Gerry Smith of Kinderman Canada. The chap just in front of me was showing Gerry his "immaculate" M3. When the chap dry fired his camera, Gerry turned white as a ghost and stopped him from winding the camera on. He insisted that the camera be sent in for a CLA right away. I was next and handed Gerry my, unknown to him, recently CLAed M2. He dry fired it at a couple of speeds and handed it back. It sounded good to him. He did not even bother to check the speeds!

Your camera will slowly change its sound and feel as the lubricants deteriorate. It will happen so slowly that it will sound normal to you. Have it checked!!!

Leica recommends that every three months all mechanical cameras have there shutters exercised (all speeds), various control levers moved and all lens controls moved as well. This keeps the lubricants from separating and everything freed up.

What do I do? Regular – hard to call every ten years regular :-) – CLAs and careful testing when ever the camera has been repaired.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), August 22, 2001.


I'm mostly aligned with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" posters. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I sent my M2 in after 40 years of faithful, maintenance-free service because the top two or three shutter speeds were off (thin negs); the finder looked dirty; and the collar around one of the flash synch sockets had fallen off. It came back, two and a half months later, with a finder problem it didn't have to begin with. Now it's on its way back to me for the second time, and we will see how things turned out.

But I think my 40 year wait was a bit extreme. I think Jeff and John are on the right track with a sensible middle of the road policy of sending it in at intervals a bit more frequent than my 40 years. In fact, I'll probably send the M2 in again, in, oh, 25 or 30 years. No point in waiting until the last minute . . .

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), August 22, 2001.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ