Concentrate on the league

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Well we always knew what a trivial poxy little competition the inter2bob was anyway. :-)

I'm afraid the main culprit for tonight's defeat is Bobby Robson. I can't recall the last time I was more angry with a manager over the specific decisions he made in the game. The opening XI was OK - nothing too upsetting although we've seen Bernard play - he's better than Quinn - should have been on at the start but never mind.

During the opening 10 minutes we overan Troyes and I'm not sure how control was ceded. They are a very tidy side as I warned in a pre match thread somewhere. Starting the 2nd half at 1-2 I still felt we could do it if the action was cranked up. Time for subs. 1-3 - do something Bobby! Lua Lua, O' Brien and Bernard were warming up for ages and still nothing. The game was dying, the Toon clueless. I was at this stage screaming (unusual in my more mellow years) at the bench for action. 1-4. Could not believe that YBR had not acted. Quinn was nowhere - hiding. He'd pass the ball back to Elliot, turn his back on him and run away never offering Elliot the option of returning the pass. At last we launch an attack - the Nobmeister gets an assist to add to his goal and Shola makes it 2-4. Still a chance but a slim one.

Far, far, too late YBR finally makes his move. 3 subs announced and one of those to go off is the man who scored one and made the other! Could not believe he would take Nobby off with goals and creativity needed. Anyway, the subs had much more effect than even I was expecting. The game suddenly became one of the most one-sided ever and Troyes were pegged in their own half for the rest of the match. Shola (who had been reasonably ineffective up till then) seemed to come to life with Bernard and Lua2 buzzing round him and brilliantly won a very clear pen. 3-4. We piled on the pressure and as the time slipped away and shots rained in on the Troyes goal the folly of YBR's delay became ever more apparent. 4-4 but only seconds left.

YBR lost us this match.

Magnificent game from an excitement point of view and it's nice to read the match thread which recaptures it very well. It was great to come back from 1-4. We were all quite content in the Strawberry afterwards. I just speculated how we would have felt if we had LED 4-1 and finished at 4-4. Suicidal was the concensus so it was good that the game went the way it did. Cracking finish, superb entertainment, lots to shout about.

Very disappointed in YBR's lack of action in turning the game round. He acted far too late when it was glaringly obvious to all that subs were needed, and when he finally did act, the reversal was immense with the Toon running the show for the rest of the match.

Barton's mistake for goal 3 was appalling. As was Given's for goal 4. Goal 1 was saveable as well but was difficult. The shot took a tiny deflection which sent the ball spinning and swerving away from Shay - he got hands to it but could only push it into the corner. He might well have saved it on another day. Harps deserves a chance but I hope Shay doesn't hoy his toys out the pram if that happens.

Fans booing players does not help the cause. These people are stupid but there's no telling them. Oh yes - they've paid their entrance fee so they're entitled to express their view.

Bollocks. When we enter SJP we have no entitlements at all - only a duty to support the lads with everything we've got. We have a job to do - we're not there to enjoy ourselves. :-)

Bring on those awfully nice people from Sunderland ...

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001

Answers

jonno marra, can I superimpose Warren Barton into your last sentence? :

"Bollocks. When HE enterS SJP HE has no entitlements at all - only a duty to support the lads with everything He'S got. He have a job to do - he's not there to enjoy himself. :-)

I know you and Softie (for one) are BIG Barton supporters, surely you agree that it's time for him to step down?

People talk of him becoming a coach, I don't think our young players should be taught how to:

back- pass, side-pass, hoof it up the pitch, get caught up field miles out of position, get caught in possession in/around the box, allow the opposition yards of space and time to aim crooses into the penalty area......clap their hands at the end of the match praising the supporters (his one and only talent!)!

Rant over.

I've a feeling the formatting of this is gonna be Bartonesque, viz. $h!te !?

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001


..proof-read, 'he has'...'aim crosses' :-(

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001

What a difference a game makes - awesome on Sunday - BARTON FOR ENGLAND - dreadful last night - DROP HIM.

Personally I would like to see Griffin given a run but I don't go along with the arguments (on other threads) that Barton should never have been playing. He should play on Sunday and he will give his all. I hope he plays well, I really do and I hope the boo boys one day realise what muppets they really are.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001


If you cut open the players i bet you'd find Barton's blood has started to turn a nice hue of Black and white. Nobody can fault his heart or even (at times) his skill, but his big big big problem is the ability to mess up. Until he learns to cut this out we will never do anything with him in the side. Sad, but true.

Excellent summary Jonno. To come back from 4-1 is fantastic. What hurts is knowing that another 5 minutes and they were going to lose.

What part did fatigue play last night?

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


Totally agreed the game was lost by Bobby. Watched the game on tele and thinking why Solano was going off when surely either Speed or Lee should be the ones making way. Heck! you are 2-4 down, you don't need defensive midfielders anymore!

But when all is said and done, we all have to realise that at the end of last season, we weren't in the UEFA Cup let alone the InterToto. So its status quo as far as I'm concern.

Concentrate on the league. That was the feeling three months back where everyone agreed the this season was to be solely to make sure we qualify for Europe either through the cups or a good finish in the league.

So we didn't get in, big deal. We wouldn't have gone far anyway with last night's performance. At best, maybe the 2nd rd or the 3rd. I'm not saying we are hopeless but anyone supporting this team will know days like last night will happen not once or twice but at least 5-10 times in the current season. That's the trill or is it agony of supporting NUFC. If anything else, we can lay claim to supporting the most "rollercoaster" team of the world.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001



What part did fatigue play last night?

Hard for me to say really. Troyes looked knackered after our subs came on! We looked sluggish before then as well apart from the first 10 minutes. I don't know why Robson feels the need to bring on 3 at once - Quinn could been replaced at half time. Bernard and LuaLua showed a great urgency when they came on. They really WANTED to play, wanted to impress. Bernard looked very good when he came on vs Lokeren (?) and I've been surprised he's not being used more.

Dabz was very disappointing last night. I normally admire his control and ability to bring the ball forward out of defence, instead of this tedious habit these days of the midfielder dropping deep to accept a 5 yard pass. Last night he lost the ball several times and was very lucky not to have one of those errors punished as harshly as Barton's was.

Coming to Barton, his mistake was very bad and was glaring. A goal would not always automatically ensue as Troyes still had a fair bit to do and there are other defenders. When it went in I knew the house would come down on Barton - whipping-boy-in-chief. In the first half he had prevented a certain equaliser early on with a superb tackle at full stretch - I was right behind the shot and it was going in. Given's mistakes, one Saturday, and at least one last night don't seem to warrant the same reprobation from the fans (which is as it should be.)

So I'm sorry I selected Barton to play last night :-) but I certainly don't regard him as responsible for losing the tie. There were 3 other goals, possibly 2 of them down to Shay). It's not for Barton to step down as suggested above, it is for YBR to select someone else. As for Barton passing sideways and backwards - I'm sorry - that's what defenders do, especially if under pressure. It's pointless to hoof the ball clear if a short pass to a colleague or the keeper is available.

Barton's was not the most glaring error last night. The need for the subs was blindingly obvious long before they came on. I think the score was still 1-2 when we were first calling for them. They transformed the game immediately and if YBR had not been fiddling while Rome burned, we would now be in the UEFA Cup, IMHO.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


Sorry, but I thought Nobby was pants. Yes he scored, and yes, (maybe) he was involved in the build up for Shola's goal. But other than that he was poor. Jet-lagged? Mind elsewhere?? Contructing his argument to face YBR???

I wouldn't play him on Sunday.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


Firstly - Secreacher, the Stawberry was a bit full when I got there so I'm sending the money in the post.

Poor performance. We can't start with Speed & Lee in the middle, Lee was nowhere all game. Quinn tuned his back on every opportunity to get the ball, why not Bernard or Gavilan? Shola-Very raw, I remember Andy Cole against us for Bristol City at the same age - i'm not sure if Shola will make it. Bellamy, ok we paid over the odds but he trys to recoup every penny. Nobby, OK for first 20 mins, as the only controlled outlet we had we asked a lot of him, better inside right.

changing to 3-5-2, Hughes was superb comingout of defence, much more assured. Lua x 2 - keeps it too long, doesn't know when best to turn it on but he'll learn. Bernard, committed & OK.

Sum up, Bobby bought players like Bassedas, Gavilan, Acuna, they all could have started.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


Fair points Jonno. I was screaming at the telly for Ameobi to be taken off at half time. He was having a stinker - I thought maybe not fit, but he disproved that later. He seemed completely disinterested - slow, meandering and not worth his place. His transformation just made me angrier. If he'd moved like that earlier he might have given the tireless Bellamy some support and maybe things would have been different.

Before the match I couldn't see why Bassedas wasn't playing. Two games in two days is surely too much to ask of Rob Lee these days. Solano want awol for 45 minutes before he was subbed - what was wrong with him?? I was still surprised to see him subbed as he may have woken up when we brought on the mobile youngsters.

I really hope Robson can see the messages that were on the pitch last night and everyone posting on this board picked up. Subs were far too late - some of them should have been made at half time.

I don't blame Barton too much - a bad mistake but we're all entitled to make one, but I do think Griffin is a better all round player. I'd like Bassedas and Acuna to have a run in the side in place of Lee / Speed. I'm not too worried about whether it's O'Brien or Dabs in centre of defence - my choice would be O'Brien but it's close. It's tough but maybe Given should take a small rest and give Harper his chance.

I'd love to see this team against the Mackems: Harper, Griffin, O'Brien, Hughes, Bernard, Solano, Bassedas, Acuna, Robert, Shearer Bellamy. But it won't happen - Probably have Barton, Elliot, Lee and Speed in there. Maybe we need a few minor injuries to give the others a chance! :o))

I hope Lua Lua guts a start soon but I don't know where to play him - unless it's in Solano's place. He's still maybe more useful as a supersub, replacing Bassedas or Acuna.

The booing was appalling last night and made me ashamed. It's not everyone and I suspect it's never the fans who travel to away matches, who are always superb. Just a few dimwits who always seem to sit near me whenever I make my rare trips to SJP, the same few who shout racist comments, criticise every small thing that doesn't work, and leave when we're losing. It makes me wonder why they turn up!

Still the come back last night was fantastic. I just hope it doesn't paper over the cracks.

Enough rant for now. Did anyone drink with the Troyes fans after the match?

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


I managed to have a few beers with some of them after the match. The match wasn't even on TV here, but there were a few bars with the radio on. They were gracious in victory and wished us all the best for the rest of the season.

I have to say that the big difference for me between the teams was Alain Perrin, the Troyes coach. Despite all the injuries, man for man Newcastle had players of geater ability on the pitch. I've seen Troyes play about 10 times now, and every time the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. They only struggle against pure class, or against teams that really fight for every ball. Perrin has taken them in eight years from the French 4th division into the UEFA Cup, and has consistently out-thought coaches at PSG, Lyon, Marseille, etc.

If we're looking for a replacement for YBR, he'd have a hard job turning us down.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001



I think what YBR was doing was giving the game up as lost when he brought on the subs. He was saving Solano for Sunday. As I saw it the subs were coming on just before we scored our second and YBR still brought Solano off despite the fact that we were back in the game.

As for Quinn well he should have gone off at half time as Jonno points out but it seems to me that YBR is beginning to believe his own publicity. The three subs on at once turned one game yet he constantly does it.

I hate to say it but Barton was dreadful last night. The second, third and fourth goals were his fault. His lack of pace on the second goal was appaling, the bloke walked past him. The third was unforgivable. The fourth he gave their best crosser too much room to get in a lovely cross which admittedly Given should have cut out.

I know I always defend Solano but come on Screach. He scored our first he set up our second on a plate for Shola. He also put Bellamy clear in the first half with a 45 yard pass from which CB should have scored. He also put in the best cross of the day again in the first half which Shola was unlucky not to convert. I spose it is all perceptions but he was again our best player.

All in all, a dreadful defensive performance, not just from Barton, some bad decisions from YBR including the worst of the lot pushing Hughes into midfield and playing three at the back which contributed to Barton's bad game. Great team spirit to come back which I think is the only plus point from a depressing night

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


Bake - you have every right to defend Solano. What p!$$es me off is his inconsistency and his habit to go AWOL. A couple of good moves in a game is not enough from a guy like him. With his talent, he should be controlling the game, not making cameo appearances.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

I agree Screach. It's been said before on here - he has one good game in three. At his best I love him, but he could do so much more with his ability.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

good call kiwi, how many French coaches have failed in England?

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Solano - one goal, one assist and 2 other possible assists according to Bake. What more can be expected of a player who didn't even do 90 mins? I don't think Nobbs is the "controlling the game" type of player. More the guy who pops up and does the biz when least expected.

After he went off we had a pen, lots of corners (with players not sure who was to take), and a couple of very dangerous free kicks, all of which Nobby would have taken. The pen went in (just!) but Nobby might well have done more damage with the other set pieces which he had to sit out.

Inexplicable. Mind, I admit Shola was probably my choice to come off but he came into his own after the subs and was a star thereafter.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


The only problem is that he's very loyal. Five years ago in the first season in Div 2 they started badly and people were calling for his head. They avoided relegation, then were promoted two years later. When his contract expired at the end of last season he said that he felt obliged to sign a new contract due to the support he was given by the club.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

I'm with Screacher & Pilgrim on Solano's performance. To me he is 'showboater' - plays one good game in four, and never away from home. He undoubtedly is talented but doesn't show it consistently enough. As Screacher says, he never seeks to dominate/control a game which I actually believe he is capable of - the sort of player we desperately need.

He was totally anonymous in the game at Troyes, when we badly needed someone to put his foot on the ball and give us some measure of control. Last night was typical Solano - scored a great goal and then disappeared. He is a master at finding a marker and hiding for long spells - and for long periods last night just didn't make himself available or look to help out colleagues by getting into space.

I actually thought BR was spot on in taking him off, and I'd think long and hard about playing him on Sunday when the tackles will be flying in. However, without Dyer I'd still play him, but have a contingency for replacing him if he disappears again.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


Not everyone was exstatic over Bartons performance on Saturday. I shudder to think what will happen against Henri and Cole if Barton is still playing, not to mention Kewell and Smith etc. I think I could outpace Barton, add to that just putting pressure on him he would again start making mistakes.

I said it about Leeds last season regarding the young fast players, the atitude of 20 years ago when the game was different "you win nowt with bairns" is just that, out dated. Some of the 20 y olds are as physically strong as 28 y olds. Every team bar us has a good strong engine room of younger lads, we have the engine of a tired trabant. We will be over run by the majority of the EPL teams this season.

Note I am not booing the players, just that it is about time our club dragged itself into the 1990s, ie resposibility to younger players, new training measures, decent medical staff and decent facilities, other than the stadium.

Where is the 100 million, I read an article the other day saying we would sell Nobby because we were desperate for funds to strengthen the team. Ok it may have been journalists talking, but why do I have this nagging doubt?

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


Sustitutions - in defence of YBR.

I think YBR was all set to leave the team that started out on the field for the full 90 to show his absolute disgust and that he wasn't going to rescure them with a substitution so they could hide. When Ameobi scored i think he realised that we still had a [remote] chance, so hauled off Solano, Barton and Quinn. [as i posted somewhere else yesterday...]

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001


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