I don't beleive Barton is a good enough player for the premier league. He was rubbsih tonight but he is always making mistakes like he did today but normally the other team dont score from it so no-one complains.

He tried to be too clever with the ball, why didn't he just boot it out?

And he's always going way too far upfront. Making pointless speed bursts into no-where he does about 10 a game and never recieves the ball cos he's marked.

He's no good on the half way line as he's too slow to get back if there's a breakthru.

But my main point is that I was appaled when fans tonight started booing Barton after the 4th goal. What the fuck is that about?

"We are the loyalast football supporters the world has ever had" One player makes a mistake and every1 boo's him>?

anyway after the boo's a few real fans cheered every time he got the ball to put right those idiots.

And after the first half our fans boo'd them off>? Fine i was very angry with the teams performance but they can't win every time.

Look at the way they battled back to draw the game. That was sheer determination. Unfortunately it didn't get us into Europe. But how many teams would have come back from 4-1 to 4-4 in 45 minutes??

I was proud of newcastles performance, i think we all should be.

And Bernard, what a great player !!!

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001

Answers

fighting talk james! I have to agree, I'm not too downhearted by it. troyes were a good side. the fightback showed character and while there are alot of problems with the team, there are pluses and better players to join the side.

We would never have got far in uefa anyway, not a big enough squad.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001

The only time I've booed a player at St James' is when they are playing for the opposition.

I felt both embarrassed and ashamed at the recent booings of Marcelino and Barton. OK they made some pretty bad mistakes, but booing isn't on at all.

However, I didn't agree with the cheering of Barton, as this was obviously not deserved. Although I can see where the cheerers were coming from, in defending Barton from the booers, it would have been better if there were no boos or cheers for Warren.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001

Yeah Lynda, I have to agree about the UEFA Cup at this moment in time. If we can't get past an average French side - who most probably had never heard of before the last few weeks - what hope have we against the stronger teams?

I just wonder what would have happened tonight with Shearer, Dyer and Cort all fit in the team and raring to go.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001

We'd have scored more than them.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2001

chin up,

Booing any NUFC player is stupid.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Whilst I cannot condone booing a toon player or performance in ANY circumatances, I can sympathise with those who did.

Barton Welcome back we thought someone had possessed your body for the chelsea game , but your well and truly back the the man we love to castigate.

He was pathetic, along with Shola who never won 1 header , given takes his share of the blame also for that clearence at least, and quinn who showed hes a 2nd div player.

I was appalled by the hapless defence, but cheered by the attacking play at the end of the 2nd half , too little to late tho.

there'd better be a lot more to come.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Shola has never ever won a header as far as I can recall. This is his major weakness and should be worked on every day. I think I could win more than him, and that's saying a lot more about him than me ;-)

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

No his major weakness is that he thinks he's a defensive midfielder and is therefore rarely in the oppositions box...

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Okay, you've got a 19 year old lad playing centre forward, with a smaller mobile player with him. You know (we all know) the lad is tall but his main assets are in his feet, not in his heading ability. He's the player who'll peel off down the channels and run at defenders, use trickery to get passed them and into the box.

What is the tactic then ? Hoof the ball at his head, and then wonder why he looks poor. We must play to players strengths. If we want a forward that is good in the air then lets get Niall Quinn or John Hartson. Or worst scenario (for me) lets get a half fit Alan Shearer who can head the ball, but only has a ten yard stripe down the middle of the pitch that he can move in.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

I wish that were the case but we were hoofing the ball at Bellamy's head , he must be all of 5'2". I thought bellamy was our MOM but shola looked slow all night or at least untill the last 10 mins.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Hoof the ball at his head, and then wonder why he looks poor.

Exactly Macbeth. The guy can't head so why the hell pump high balls into the box? Play to his strengths as you say. He scored one and won a penalty - with the ball on the deck.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Try watching the U-21's when Shola's in the side - then you'll see how to play with Shola playing up front.

We are tactically bereft - FULL STOP.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Mmmm...What was the title of that thread " Center Partins finest hour ( and a half ). I rest my case!!

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

From ICNewcastle.

Barton Upset By Toon Fans Jeers Aug 22 2001

Evening Chronicle Warren Barton has admitted to being "upset" after being booed by some Newcastle fans when he was substituted in last night's Intertoto Cup exit at the hands of Troyes

The United defender felt the wrath of a section of the fans after he was caught in possession to gift the French side the crucial third goal a minute after the break.

And midway through the second half when Barton was taken off by Bobby Robson and replaced by Andy O'Brien he seemed to head straight down the tunnel.

Despite his disappointment Barton was still prepared to face the music and regarding the reaction of some fans he told me: "I don't want to say too much about it.

"But I will say I was quite upset about it although there is not much I can do about it."

United were booed off at the interval when they went in 2-1 down despite taking that early lead through Nol Solano.

However, Barton added: "The fans pay their money and they have a right to do what they want to do.

"We have got to be man enough to accept it and just get on with it."

Barton does not hide from the fact that United were guilty of some terrible defending in last night's pulsating 4-4 draw.

"We let in sloppy goals at the back all through the night," said the United full-back.

"Troyes are a good team and we don't want to make excuses particularly Shay Given and myself.

"At half time the manager told us to go out and win it 2-0 but their third goal was a kick in the teeth and to tell the truth I don't really know how the fourth one went in.

"Yet in all our pre-season games, including Sunday at Chelsea, we have looked solid at the back. Obviously the result was a massive, massive disappointment to us.

"We had a mad 10 to 15 minutes after half time when we threw the game away. But at the same time you have got to give the players credit for the way they came back.

"They showed a lot of character and we gave Troyes a run for their money and nearly dragged something out of the game.

"But the ball kept hitting knees and elbows inside their penalty area and the keeper made two fantastic saves."

Hope the Boo Boys are proud of themselves!

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Some one should do a "How many good games will Barton have this season" competition. The thing with the player from where I sit is that he's either quite good (1 in 4 games) or rather bad (3 in 4 games). There dosen't seem to be any consistancy in his performances.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Rik you've just pointed out that he's consistently bad in 3 out of 4 games and consistently good in 1 out of 4 games! :))

I believe his number of good games are considerably less than that....

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

And 4 out of 4 managers, Keegan, Dalglish, Gullit and Robson are all too blind to have made this observation?

The weight of opinion against Barton is remarkable. Given gave away at least 1 and possibly 3 goals last night, plus one on Saturday, Quinn was anonymous, Dabz had a 'mare with SEVERAL mistakes as bad as Barton's which weren't punished, and the main culprit on the night was YBR who was way too late sending on the subs which could (and did) change the game.

Any mistake of Barton's will be amplified out of all proportion to everything else while the likes of Shearer can get away with missing a pen in the derby. Don't understand it.

But it does make me like Barton even more. I've always been a supporter of the underdog. Well you have to be as a Toon fan don't you? :-)

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

I'm not particularly a fan of Warren Barton, but the focus of criticism on him seems entirely irrational to me. Yes, he gave a goal away last night, but hey shit happens to all players from time to time - and let me remind you the score was 4-4, not 0-1.

Frankly, Barton was given mission impossible last night by BR. He was asked to play on the right of a three man defence (BTW, has this ever worked for us? Just a thought) against a team that played with two wide players. No one appeared to have told Solano or Quinn that in this system they had some serious defensive responsibilities. So, Barton and Elliott (who incidentally I thought played really well) in addition to covering Dabz, were expected to play the regular FB role as well!

I don't think anyone had explained to Aaron Hughes what he was supposed to do in his advanced role either. I suspect Aaron was expecting to fill a man-marking role - only his anticipated target, Djukic, didn't start the game! So, did we adjust? Did we hell.

We were a tactical shambles last night, and to blame Warren Barton is I would suggest neither reasonable or remotely accurate.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

But Given shouldn't play the next game. Quinn is a squad player.

Through the 80s and early 90s (not sur eof time scales) England cricket had a core of player who fairly regularly didn't win much. (Okay could have been any time in the passed 20/30 years). The batsmen at 3/4/5 etc were Gower, Gatting, Hick, Lamb. These players were never quite good enough. They could dominate county cricket but that little step up to international was too much. Unfortunately they had what was mentioned earlier in that they could play well in 1 in 4 games. Once every Test series they would get a century, or better, and would then get picked for the rest of that series, and usually the next series on the back of it. Just when it seemed they were on their way out they would redeem themselves and so it went on.

Warren Barton playing superbly against Chelsea was the exceptional performance, not the one last night. Shay's mistakes last night and at Chelsea were exceptions (although one could be considered careless, two ....) which is why he hasn't been jumped upon.

Barton is the senior professional in the defence. As senior pro he should be setting standards (compare Sheringham, McAllister, Pearce) to the likes of 21 year old Aaron Hughes.

Wayne Quinn had a stinker last night, for what ever reason. Nobody has come on and pulled him to bits, cos we know he's only there as a fill-in, and has now probably even dropped behind Bernard. The fear amongst many of us is that Barton isn't viewed as a squad player, he's viewed as a key player.

Just cos he has 3 caps, doesn't make him good player, otherwise we should be looking to get 18 cap Carlton Palmer to join us. Just cos 4 Newcastle managers have not sold him doesn't mean he's good, it just means no one else wants him. In 6 full seasons those 4 manager have picked him 139 times, or roughly half the available games. I believe Gullit sold Steve Watson for £4m cos he could. No one apart from Kevin Keegan (when he originally bought him) has ever really thought Warren Barton was worth £4m.

We all like underdogs to do well. We will remain underdogs while we have the likes of Warren Barton in our side.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

"At half time the manager told us to go out and win it 2-0 but their third goal was a kick in the teeth and to tell the truth I don't really know how the fourth one went in."

In agreement with macbeth. The last part of this statement is the most scandalous. He's a professional footballer, full-time, he's paid more per week than most of us earn in a year. It's a team game but what the hell is he PAID for as a defender if not to stop the opposition scoring? Grrrrrr.

If he was your manager and you couldn't get a promotion because he was there, you wouldn't tolerate it.

-- Anonymous, August 22, 2001

Hey mac Gower is a legend. Lamb wasnt bad either...

-- Anonymous, August 23, 2001