Hello fellow Homesteaders! We live in NE Washington State, and have severe cougar problems. We lost our beloved homestead protector this spring to our local big cat. I have two small children and of course have many concerns regarding this cougar. We desperately have been looking for another homestead protector, to help me feel more secure. I did find a 7 month old mixed breed dog that has now joined our family, she was adopted from a shelter but then abandoned and hit by a car outside a friends office bldg. She has recovered from her injuries, and is getting to know our place and seems to love it here. We have 42 acres in forest with large meadow and marsh; DOG HEAVEN! I am fairly isolated as we produce our own power and have only a cell phone that works when it wants to :( . We have one neighbor that lives within walking distance, 30 minutes or so. I have noticed since our dog was killed that the wildlife is casually coming closer to the house and outbuildings. Our new dog is very submisive because of her past life, and doesn't bark at cars coming down our drive, or any of the wildlife. I'm not saying we're even thinking of getting rid of her, we love her, but I would like to find another dog to make a team of protectors! Friends of ours in another town have a Ridgeback, Countryside had a wonderful article a while back about Ridgebacks, and I have been researching on the internet about them. The breed sounds perfect for our family and situation, but the only breeders I've found on the net, are breeding champions, and want $1,500, to $2,000 dollars for a puppy!!! That will never fit into my homestead budget, and I know there must be breeders of pet quality dogs out there. I'm not looking for a puppy mill, will spay, and am willing to pay a reasonable price. I can not afford to actually buy a puppy right now, we have had LOTS of fires in our area and we have been helping friends who lost homes/posessions. I would like to find a breeder though and plan to buy as soon as I can. Can anyone help me? I would love to hear from any of you who have Ridgeback dogs on your homestead!!! THANK YOU EVERYONE!

-- Trina from NE WA (dolittle@starband.net), August 21, 2001

Answers

Wow Trina, Your story is very parrell to mine but different players and less threatening. We lost our protectors because our neighbors had boat loads of trash in their back yard and our dogs (4) of them would wander over for a nice hot lunch. They called animal control everyday until we found homes for them, from the pure harrassment of it all. We started to put them on chains but they hated that after living free on 12 acres all their lives. I have missed the male so bad. He was my protecter, I never had predators on the property, now I do. I loose a chicken a night and NEED another protector here soon. I never reliezed how much our dogs did for us, we are new to homesteading and now see the necessitiy of a good protector. We kept the most gentle one and she only lays on the porch and doesn't even bark when their is a car upon her. We are looking at a border collie or Austrailian Cattle Dog, but we only have raccoons and foxes, NOT cougars. I wish you the best and will look to see if you post again. Love Karole

-- Karole (Biz3boymom@aol.com), August 21, 2001.

Trina- Enter RRCUS.org into your search engine. This will lead you to the national RR breed organization. From there you can find your way to the state org, if there is one on your state, I think there is. There should be a RR Rescue group- they often have purebred dogs available for adoption. They do charge a fee, but it is very reasonable and usually reflecte the expense that they have in the dog for vet care, neuter/spay, license, etc. You'll also meet other RR lovers which can be very helpful to you AFTER you have your dog, as far as answering questions, etc. The rescue group in my state usually has RR/mix dogs available- some of them are very nice and have enough of the RR characteristics that they would suit your needs very nicely. One caveat- Ridgebacks are my absolute favorite dogs but I do not often recommend them as pets simply because in my experience, most people do not understand the breed and their requirements and so do not take proper care of them which then leads to problems. These dogs were bred to HUNT, primarily, and they require a LOT of exercise to keep them happy and out of trouble. This does not mean that they should run loose all day unsupervised. They do tend to roam if left to their own devices. Please do lots of research, talk to other owners, and make sure that this is what you want before you make a commitment. I don't mean to dissuade you, but I want you and your potential dog to be happy. I myself kept a RR while living in an apartment in Dallas for 4 years without even a yard. But, I walked the dog 15-20 miles every day, did lure coursing on weekends, did obedience training, etc. On hot nights we used to walk downtown (3 miles each way) so the dog could swim in the fountain in city hall. It worked out great for us because I understood her needs and made sure they were met. She was the best dog I ever had, and I am also starting to look around for a puppy. So, good luck to you and whatever pup you wind up with, whether it is a RR or not. Oh, you should also check the animal shelters, humane society, etc in your area. Because RR's roam, they often wind up in shelters.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), August 21, 2001.

I had a trio of border collies for 15 years, then lost all 3 of them last year to old age and accidents. they were definitely 'outside dogs'. we also have a trio of rat terriers who are definitely 'inside dogs'. it's taken almost a year, but now the coyotes have moved onto our farm...I never realized how much the bc's did for us, in keeping varmints and coyotes away..in July I started noticing *something* was eating the ends of my goats' ears off..so last month I swapped a lovely nubian buck for a 2 year old great pyr. I havent had any predation on the goats since. I would love to have border collies again, but still clearly remember how long it took for the border collie pups to turn into responsible dogs. they are VERY high energy dogs. anyone considering one should keep that in mind..they will chase anything that moves, trying to herd it. they can dig a grave in about 10 minutes, if they are bored. all of my bc's were great chicken killers, so I had to build a chicken yard and consider any chicken who could fly over a 6 foot fence as suicidal. when my bc's were young they spent ALL their waking hours herding my horses back and forth across the fields or holding them in a knot in a corner. I live at the end of a long private lane, or I'm sure my bc's would've been road kill before they were a year old...and a chained up dog isnt much of a guardian, in my opinion..

-- Sarah from Missouri (sarahdoh@hotmail.com), August 21, 2001.

We have always had Ridgebacks, and always will. I would stay as far away from the rescue as I could, more than likely they wouldn't let you rescue one anyway, they only want then to go to inside homes. You should try going about this venture differently, there are lots of folks who use these dogs for hunting. You would also want to purchase 2 dogs, they are incredible to watch, tag teaming other dogs. I have always started with pups as mine must also bond with the livestock. We do have a single 3 year old female now, and yes spayed is very important. She not only patrols the property but has killed one dog and one coyote this last year, with the death of our older (14) Brandy. They are very intelligent dogs, they seem to have a sixth sense as to what belongs on the property and what doesn't. Knowing the difference between cats who live here and cats who don't. It was very easy to train our older two as pups, not to chase the deer, now that we have had a bout of menengial worm on our place, brought in by the deer, it was just as easy to teach Morgan that she should and does run the deer off the property. Pretty smart that a dog can tell the difference between a goat and a deer and some hunters can't :) http://query2.thriftynickel.com/

Here is one source we found them in for someone else, and don't shy away from buying a cross, we have had them crossed with hounds, Morgan is half redbone, and though she has treed a coon and howled just like she was supposed to, she is very much the ridge metality with the stock. They make wonderful mothers for our baby goats, and also our children. Our older two were halved with great dane, and were also wonderful dogs. Just be very careful they aren't crossed with pit, chow, rotwiler etc. lots of folks are doing this in the south for fighting dogs. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 21, 2001.

If the R.R. are too expensive, why not go with a large old German bloodline German Shepard? The ones that go over 100 pounds or better. We have a neutered male that easily drives off the local black bears and cougar that we have also, Shep does his job well, never any sign of the large predators within a mile of the farm buildings, but they are there, their "poop" proves their existence.

We have an abundance of deer and smaller size prey, I'm sure that helps too at their keeping their distance from us, but Shep does his part as well.

There are many reputable breeders out there that breed for size, intelligence, as well as for protection, and you need all of these to discourage the big predators. The German Shepard works for us, and they are totally safe around pets and children, when raised with them.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), August 21, 2001.

Thanks Everyone for the response! What wonderful friends Countrysiders are! I have been in contact with the Rescue Association, we are looking for a female, and there is only one male available in our area and he is not good with small children. Also since we started all this search 7 or 8 months ago, we have decided that a puppy that can bond with our crowd (animals included of course!) would be the best bet. There are two semi-local shelters but at this time they have no RR mixed breed or otherwise.I am a stay at home mom and do have time to spend with our new family member when she arrives! I would enjoy working with and training a new dog, its been 8 years since I was a part of a new puppy's growing experience! I will look in to your suggestions, Thank you! And everyone else.... keep posting your opinions/comments/suggestions!!!

-- Trina in NE WA (dolittle@starband.net), August 21, 2001.

Hi Trina: It sure sounds like you need a big protective dog; but I sure would be cautious about getting anything other than a pretty young puppy since you have small children. It is always a tough time when you need something right away; but you sure want to be safe rather than sorry. The only RR I have ever been around was owned by a next door neighbor in a suburb and I am sure the dog's problem was lack of exercise. But he sure seemed aggressive to me. My ex used to say that if the ole stockade fence ever gave way as he was weed-eating(cause the RR literally rammed the fence with his head and bit at it during every weedeating session) that he sure hoped he had a full spool of line! Maybe you should contact the fish and game agent about what can be done immediately to solve the cougar problem so that you and your family make it safely thru this time when you don't have a big guard dog around. Cause even if you did get hold of a perfect adult dog, it sure would be bad to pay for one, get attached to it and lose it like happened to your other. Do you have rifle season on cougars there? If you do, you might consider buying a license on one this year, or getting a friend to. I know in CO, when we knew there were lions around, we made sure the local guys who hunted them knew we had one in our area. Once I had an experience when I was in an old potato cellar checking on a mule deer we had hung there earlier in the day - and I think a lion was in there with me. We told this guy with an excellent pack of redbone lion dogs and that season he killed a huge female just back of our place. So be careful and I wish you Lots of luck!

-- Cynthia in MN (farmsteader@gvtel.com), August 21, 2001.

How about considering an American Pit Bull Terrier - the origional pioneer dog? Most people don't know that the reason the American version is twice as large as the English version is they were bred to protect livestock from the larger predators we have over here. Many also display natrual talent in the area of herding. Despite their bad press they are very friendly and make great family pets (love to snuggle!) and their coats are like teflon, nothing sticks! which makes for easy cleanup. My two males do a great job of protecting us from the wild critters (both the two legged & four legged type).

As with any dog you do need to properly train and socialize them from the time they are young and it goes without saying that you should get one from a reputable breeder (i.e one that breeds to standard - 60-65 lbs for males and not the 100+lb giants that are sometimes advertised)

-- Jane from SW Oregon (jwagman@mail.com), August 21, 2001.

Save your self some money and get a couple mixed breed puppys from the pound. If they have shepard in them all the better or lab x is nice to. Ranch dogs work better in threes, harder to pick one off when you have 2 others attacking you at the same time.The ranch I work at has always had three and though the third one was a small mutt he was the loudest and the other two were back up.Do your own shots and have them spayed nutered and you can keep the cost down.And if you should lose one you still have 2 more for protection.Just my 2 cents.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), August 21, 2001.

You need a guard not a hunter. it is usually VERY hard to make a hunting dog into a homebody. one of the good points about purebreds is that general statements can be made about them. hunters WILL roam. guards will stay home and thrash uninvited guests. RR are hunters, they run silent and open up on the bay like a cur. they are used in TX mostly on feral hogs. some of the better ones strike or catch. they are (rarely) crossed with pits or bulldogs to make them more catchy, or hounds to improve their nose.for any kind of rough hunting i wouldn't hesitate to use them, but unless you can control their movement with really good fencing i wouldn't expect every RR to work out like Vicki's. in fact i would expect about 99 out of every 100 to have hunter's personalities. good hunters will be very independant, they have to think for themselves when not under the handlers direct control. there are alot of good guarding breeds (not just LGDs)whose performance can be more easily predicted. i do not reccomend pits because the lines and breeders that have what you need will give you sticker shock all over again and the ones in your price range are mostly going to be billybob and leroy brother to sister rejects. i've had dogs my entire life, i love them, but i won't pull punches just because i like a particular breed. anyone with comments or questions feel free to e-mail me i don't mind sharing and i love learning.

-- Pops (cindy556@devil-dog.com), August 21, 2001.

Pops, Rhodesian Ridgebacks originated in Africa, Rhodesia, where they guarded the boer goats, in which they still do. I have the original Life magazine article when they gained AKC acceptance, and numerous other sources of information if you are interested. Yes they are known as lion hounds, because they guarded the goats from the lions. In Nigeria right now, ridges are guarding boer goat herds, we know of 3 such farms. It just shows you how versitile these animals are that folks use them for hunting, fly courses, and now for fighting. We have had ridgebacks here at the farm for 15 years, my Mother before me has ridges with her Arabian horses. They are a wonderful all around farm dog. Unlike the pyrs etc. who have to be fenced in with the stock, giving your ridges access to your home, yards and pens, secrues your whole farm. Ridges raised correctly are wonderful animals, but like ALL large, intelligent dogs, raised by fools, they can be dangerous animals. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 22, 2001.

Vicki my experience with RR has been limited to show/pet stock that dominates the american market. while they make okay baydogs they aren't good for much else. i like dogs that can strike as well as bay, catching is just gravy. i would love to know what lines are in your dogs pedigree and are they american or import? i know more about hunting dogs because that is mostly what i have had. i will always recommend nonhunting homes not get hunting breeds because most people even experienced pet owners are not prepared for dealing with real hunting dogs and their personalities. guarding breeds have a whole different personality that people are better suited to deal with.

-- Pops (cindy556@devil-dog.com), August 22, 2001.

Love the Pit Bull idea. As most everyone knows, I have AmStaffs and ain't nothin' messing with my property or stock, not even the nosey neighbors! These dogs WILL lay down their lives to protect their family, certainly they would keep your children safe from harm. I wish you were closer (I'm in SW Wisconsin) I have 2 puppies that are 8 weeks old, Rott/AmStaff cross (their mother, a pure AMStaff, was dumped on me when the pups were 3 days old, Rott owner thought it was fun to 'watch' sick). I placed a similar cross at a neighbors and he helps bring in the cows for milking! The Rott would give size against a big cat and the Terrier would add heart, great dogs! Also, the Bull & Terrier breeds are much more readily available, and less expensive. Good Luck in your search!

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), August 22, 2001.

I to thought about sugesting a pit cross or staf x [ wouldnt go with a pure bred unless you went with a reputable breeder who is breeding for temperment].To many people have been breeding aggression into them for fighting[ what a way to ruin a wonderfull breed]. If you could find a puppy that is american staff x lab that would be a good cross. dont know about rottie though as there again you have another breed bred for aggresion.But alot depends on how they are raised.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), August 22, 2001.

This is great! I am loving everyones advise/info. I have long considered several of the points that have been made. We are still definitly looking into a Ridgeback. The dog we adopted that I mentioned above is becoming less submisive as she feels more comfortable at our home. The vet thinks she is a Husky / Australian Shepherd mix, but its anyones guess...we'll never know for sure! She is now 8 months old and enjoys and is very good at hunting voles in the meadow. (Which is something I am thankful for as I have been battling them in my garden/orchard.) She is training fairly easily considering her age and bad habits developed before we got her. We all love her very much, she plays VERY well with the kids and our two little house dogs. Although she has a strong interest in the rabbits, and she is making some of my chickens look naked. We're working on that with her still. Regarding Rotts, my husband and I got one 9 yrs ago...... she was only 3 weeks old, her mother had a litter of 13 and quit nursing them at 3 weeks so I talked the breeder into letting me take her home early. She was our baby! She was AKC reg. (not that it means much) and had a good pedigree. She was a wonderful dog for us in every way until..... {Here is why I think that being raised right in a good home, is not always enough with some breeds.} INSTINCT!!! We had 6 or 7 farm cats that would come up to her and rub up against her front. She would nudge and lick them, they even slept with her sometimes. BUT, one time standing on the deck, we were all there, a cat came up and rubbed against her hind leg. Instantly she turned and snapped, and we had a dead cat. One bite. She wondered what was wrong with it after that. I really dont think she meant to do it. It happened so fast, no matter what it would have been that came up on her from behind, I think she would have reacted the same. 9 cats later, it happened two feet from where our 6 month old daughter was crawling. It flashed through both our minds that this time it could have been our daughter and not just a cat. We could no longer keep our Rott. You can't train instinct away, and how would we explain to our daughter when she grew up why she was missing an arm? Or a leg. That is what ran through our minds and within an hour my husband packed our dog up and took her to some friends who already had a Rott. and who's kids were all teens. They had no cats either. Anyway, because of this experience we are very wary of some breeds; our kids are still only 6 and 4. On another topic... my very large family are all avid hunters and all have purebred hunting breed dogs. Even though I don't think that RR's are pure hunters, (from my research) I do know what hunter breeds are like and one would fit into our family perfectly. All breeds of dogs, some more than others, need training and attention, you have to work with them into their adulthood if you want a behaving and happy dog. I am looking for a dog to make a team with the one I already have. A large breed that will not shy away if our cougar comes to close! I really like everything I have read about RR's and the one I actually know is a great dog, although he is stuck in town with two people who work full time and I think he needs way more time working with his people. Vicki--- I am extremely interested in the LIFE article and any other sourses of info you would be so kind to send. How have your Ridges been with small kids, livestock, wildlife, etc. They have such a thin coat...how would they do in WA winters? I would love to hear more about your RR experiences or stories! I have to say even though I've been a subscriber for years, until recently we were not online. I knew I was missing out on a great thing not being able to go to the Countryside Forum, but I am still amazed at how wonderful it is! This is my first post here and I am thrilled with all of your responses! Thanks! Trina

-- Trina in NE WA (dolittle@starband.net), August 22, 2001.

DON'T get any FLAVOR OF MONTH breeds. i have (no $#!%) seen a billybob breed a brother to sister. i am told by other marines of leroys doing the same thing. unless you have alot of experience with eratic dogs and can afford the time and effort stay away from fad dogs. off and on for 2 years i helped a guy with his APBT's. his "pet" and top stud was 53#, garnered over $8,000 in stud fees and over $70,000 in prizes and side bets (mostly bets). over a 5 year career this dog went undefeated in over 50 fights (fyi almost none of the other dogs died). when i met him i was 12 and he had been fighting dogs for 14 years and breeding for 10. this same dog only got into one street fight that i know of, a danemix and a "pure" lab came into his front yard after his 5 year old daughter (15 stitches). Shine went through the living room window (5 stitches head, 3 staples left shoulder, 4 each right shoulder and inside right hind leg) and thrashed those poor mutts while Frank picked up tracy and headed to the hospital. the lab (80#+) died on the scene with both jaws and some vertebrae crushed, the dane (at least 110#) was put down later with both front legs crushed a dislocated shoulder and his upper jaw crushed. i spent 10 minutes pulling and beating with a rolled up paper. then i sat down and watched for 20 more minutes until Shine stopped on his own. i liked pits before that but i loved them after. Shine and his pups were considered large for fighting dogs. anyone who fights dogs to the point where they die or have to be put down is being cruel. anyone who matches any other breed against a well bred and trained fighting pit is wasting time, money and dogs

-- Pops (cindy556@devil-dog.com), August 22, 2001.

Trina, you are propably tired of this whole thing now (LOL) but any breeder of purebred dogs, regardless of the breed is interested in one very important thing: placing their dogs with people who will love, train and take responsible care of them. Any breeder, if approached correctly with lots of info about you, will help you get a dog. And usually will price a "pet type" pup very reasonably. It is a fallacy that some breeders just breed "Champions" and you have to go to some "backyard breeder" to get an affordable pet type pup. All litters produce some that might be potential Champs(sometimes if you are lucky) and some that for one reason or another cannot or should not be shown nor bred from, that have a fault like bad teeth alignment, undershot or overshot jaws etc, missing teeth, what have you. I don't know any breeders that wouldn't want one of their "pet" pups placed in a great home even if they take a huge loss on the deal. It costs just as much to breed a Champion as it does one that just isn't quite as good if it is done right. They all need the best food, vaccines, deworming etc, etc, and then there is all the care that the dam needs too. that's why they have to charge for pet type pups. Whatever breed you pick, don't give up on contacting a good, reputable breeder and getting some dialog going with them. You might be surprised. Good luck. :)

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), August 23, 2001.

If you are really looking for a RR, you might ask the reputable breeders you mentioned about the possibility of getting a runt, or a ridgeless puppy at a "deep discount". I have a friend you had a ridgeless ridgeback she had gotten this way, as they are not good for show or breeding, but have the same instincts. I might also mention that although Brewster was the runt, he still weighed about 160#. As far as the rotts and pit bulls, I would stay as far from them as possible. My husband is a firefighter, and he absolutely hates those breeds. It doesn't matter how well they are brought up or how well they are trained, you just can't avoid that old instinct; just like the tendency in humans to try and catch something you've dropped, even if it is a filet knife! Good luck in your search. Oh, and by the way, I would vote for an Australian Shepherd/Blue Heeler cross. I grew up with several of these dogs, and they are in my experience, extremely easy to train, smart as a whip, and very protective of their families.

-- Christine (cljford@aol.com), August 23, 2001.

Thank you Christine and Quacker, I will contact some breeders and see what happens. Wish me luck! Also Christine, I have been considering exactly that cross myself, husband is not to interested, but we'll see. I think we will be better off with several lg dogs on our homestead than just one or even two. It seems to me like they would have a better chance against lg predators as a team. thanks! T

-- Trina (dolittle@starband.net), August 23, 2001.

The only caution I would offer about having several dogs (aside from the cost of good dog food!) is that they do get a pack mentality going and are liable to terrorize and even possibly kill livestock in the area. I know this because I grew up on a family farm in OK and can remember my dad having to shoot strays that had been dumped and also having to call the neighbors a few times and tell them what might happen to their dogs if they didn't keep them out of our pasture and away from our cattle! Tell your husband that the Shepherd/Heeler mix is a wonderful cross, we had one that was so smart you could simply talk to her as if she were a person and she would tilt her head to one side and then run off to do whatever it was you asked. Her uncle (we owned him also) was wonderfully trained by the neighbor from whom we got him and would put anything up -- cattle, chickens, the weirdo whose car stalled out on the highway -- even the salesmen wouldn't get out of the car! Might be a handy thing to have around, especially if you are out away from a metro area!

-- Christine (cljford@aol.com), August 23, 2001.

Trina, I know you are leaning towards RR, but you might want to research the Anatolian Shepards also. I have had one for 5 years, and she has ruined me for any other breed of dog. Anatolians are so intelligent! They are great all around dogs, and they take on bears and cougars too! The Anatolian rescue has some available in Texas, while there is a forum or railroad that helps transport the dogs to their new homes. You might want to check it out.

-- Judy V. (whileaway3@cs.com), August 24, 2001.

I would stay away from the Heeler and Aussie and crosses thereof if you have small children. This dogs are biting herders and have a tendency to nip. A friend recently got out of breeding them because of this tendency (Aussies) I also have a co-worker who has an Aussie and also one of my AmStaffs and Tink the AmStaff is definately much more trust worthy (though she will jump in to any open car door she sees, she loves to ride!). Also, a purebred AKC AmStaff will not have any tendency to bite people, they have been breed for generations as show dogs and we (responsible breeders)certainly will not tolerate any aggression towards humans. I have seen many more RR and Kuvasz excused from the show ring for aggressive behavior than AmStaffs, the judges are much more fearful of RR's and Kuvasz. I've also seen a Great Dane rip the sleave off a judges coat, so you never know......

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), August 24, 2001.