I am looking for a camara for my daughter to learn on...she knows about F stops ect. and wants to learn on a full manual camara...becase of cost i would like to know...are the any of the leica copies that are realiabl and work farirly well...I am thinking about an e-bay zorki for $40.00 to $60.00...do you have any suggestions or ideas...I am open to any suggestion...

Thank you

Tom

-- Thomas William Hipple (elizabethmmg@msn.com), August 18, 2001

Answers

Personally, I think such a camera would be self-defeating--much too clunk, non-ergonomic and difficult to use. I would go with a manual Nikon F or F2. Of course, that would be way over your $40 - $60 price range.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), August 18, 2001.

How about an older basic manual focus built in meter SLR from Minolta, Pentax, etc?

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), August 18, 2001.

I would recommend a Canonet QL 17 or similiar '70 rangefinder.

-- C H (chihuang@yahoo.com), August 18, 2001.

Zorki 4k?

-- Richard (richard@designblue.co.uk), August 18, 2001.

Hi, Tom:

I'd support Andrew's opinion. Let's face it: how many amongst us Leicaphiles did learn basics using a M3?

I assume nowadays most people learn basics using SLR cameras. In fact, and though the much I like my M3s I did so too.

But then, unfortunately, too cheap a camera is too prone to cause too many inconveniences that could detract your daughter from exercising her photography. In Spanish we say the equivalent to "The cheap ends up being expensive" or something similar in meaning. And keep in mind that in time you will expend much more money in film and developing than in the camera itself by far !

In short I'd suggest any used old mechanical Minolta model with depth of field preview and a 50 mm lens as a sound starting point.

And if you can find a Pentax KM at a convenient price, I'd strongly recommend it.

Any of them will still work well long after your daughter had mastered basics.

I hope you both have fun.

-Iván

-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), August 18, 2001.

Zorki is fine. Just be sure that you have return privilege if needed.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), August 18, 2001.

Can you find an old Petri? That was a decent rangefinder job with non-interchangeable lens--I think it was around 45mm, but I don't really remember. Maybe on ebay?

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), August 18, 2001.

From the point of view of someone who sells photo equipment primarily to pros, gov't and SCHOOLS there is only one option. The venerable Pentax K-1000. May be a bit over your price range (but not by much with prudent shopping), it is fully manual, has more lenses available on the used market than probably all others put together, and it bulletproof. Proabably 90 percent of cameras sold to schools in North America in the last 15 years have been K-1000. Can't miss!

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), August 18, 2001.

I agree with others that a SLR makes a better 'student camera', but if you wish your daughter to learn to use a camera the hard way ;-P , then here are two suggestions that are almost as cheap as the Zorki, but more reliable and more capable of producing high-quality images: Seagull TLR; Kodak Retina IIIS (I have the Retina IIc, which is similar to the IIIS--superb lens but a real dog to use.)

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), August 18, 2001.

There was a recent discussion on using a Ricoh 500 as an inexpensive way to see if a Leica rangefinder was for you. They are great cameras, the exact size as an M6, fully manual, 45mm lens. They can be had on ebay for from $40 to $80 dollars in useable condition. I keep one around as a backup and I also use it as an exercise. I go out once in a while with my Ricoh and no light meter. Guessing at exposure is a good exercise in thinking about light.

-- jeff schraeder (jeff@circlesofclarity.com), August 18, 2001.

I would not buy orphaned 25 year-old cameras, or hit-and-miss Eastern- European gear for a student. They require upgrading to a completely different camera (if not entire system) as the student's knowledge and creative curiosity grows. My suggestion would be the Canon Rebel 2000 or Nikon N65, either of which can be operated in full-manual fashion. If and when your daughter has mastered the basics and knows how to "think like film", then she will be able to experiment with the auto features in an intelligent manner (where she's controlling them vs the other way around). If she really wants an all-mechanical camera, I would suggest a Nikon FM10. It comes with a so-so Cosina- made manual-focus 35-70 zoom but the whole package costs less than half of an FM2n. Buy Nikon AF lenses for it, though, as the newer Nikon AF bodies at the lower end (n65, n80) won't meter with manual Nikkors.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), August 19, 2001.

Speaking of the Ricoh 500 (see Jeff's response above), here's an informative website on the 500G (with downloadable manual), if anyone's interested: http://members.spr ee.com/technology/gyudong/.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), August 19, 2001.

I would pick up a good SLR from the 70s such as Olympus OM1, Canon FTb, Minolta SRT101/303 etc. Pentax Spotmatic F. These are cheap secondhand and very good.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), August 20, 2001.