Hi Folkes, I am looking into getting a hand held meter to work with my M6TTL. I would appreciate any experiences or info from those who use one with their M's. What model and make is your meter and why did you choose that one. I'm looking for a meter that can take ambient readings as well as spot metering with auto-averaging feature. Most important is the compactness for the range of features. I have seen some which are simple and compact but only have ambient capabilities, while others at the top end look like SATNAV devices! All I want is a top-rate meter which is compact, too much to ask? I saw a pretty good one by Minolta (I think) for £400. Any views and insights would be happily received. Thanks in advance!

-- Sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), August 18, 2001

Answers

"Ambient" means "existing" light (vs flash metering). Meters are designated either ambient-only, flash-only or ambient-flash. Any type can have various coverage angles. Some are fixed (either spot or averaging), some are variable, some you have to add-on attachments for narrowing the angle. I don't know of any small meter that has a full set of these features. Furthermore, I don't know why you would want one with the M6TTL, except in case of a meter failure, or if you're into incident readings. My favorite meters are the Sekonic L- 408 (5-degree spot w. viewfinder/incident, flash/ambient, weatherproof, quite compact, takes 1 AA) and Sekonic L-208 Twin-Mate (fits into hot shoe, takes lithium "coin" battery). The latter is what I use with screw-mounts and my M4, and carry it as a backup with the M6. Another nice meter is the Gossen LunaPro Digital F (probably has a different monniker in the UK) which is about the size of a deck of playing cards. Only disadvantage is no spot option and to aim the meter (no viewfinder and angle=90mm lens)you've got to hold it so it points along the lens axis and pull up the 90 framelines.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), August 18, 2001.

Ditto Jay's remarks. I have found the M6 meter as accurate as most anything out there, especially for the kind of shooting the M's are most used for. If you really need 1000 segment matrix 3D metering ;-), you're probably not going to be using an M6 anyway. Spot metering is about the only time that I use a handheld meter. With the spot I find I don't need an incident meter either. Incident meters are usually used for portraiture, but with knowledge a spot meter, metering a couple of points on the face, is just as accurate. I have found however that as I have learned to trust the Leica meters more (including the R3), they have seldom let me down. I carry a hand meter in both my rangefinder & SLR bags, but find I hardly ever use them. Now my IIIG is another story.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), August 18, 2001.

I use a Shepherd Polaris incident (and flash) meter (SPD100), which will just fit into a shirt pocket, is quite light, and runs on a single AA. I'm a big fan of backlighting, and prefer incident metering when possible. Whether in the Black Forest, or on the Matterhorn, it provides an accurate exposure. The flash capability is an added plus. I typically bounce flash.

-- Phil Stiles (Stiles@metrocast.net), August 18, 2001.

To go off on a tangent for a moment, how do you use an incident meter if you are in the shadows and the object is in the sun? BTW, when I went from center weighted (Nikon) or incident metering to the SL/2, my exposure accuracy improved dramatically (using Kodachrome 25).

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), August 18, 2001.

Thank you all for your responses. I'm being a lazy bones when I ask you to refer to this link which explains why I am looking into an incident meter:

http://teachnet.edb.utexas.edu/~leica/meter.html

Most often in outdoor situations, I haven't had too much trouble with the M6's meter, especially if I bracket. But indoors my shots are off exposure, usually underexposed by at least 2 to 3 stops.

-- Sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), August 18, 2001.

Interesting discussion, I usually 'set' the exposure by choosing something that is my guess of 18% grey and then ignore the meter when I am shooting. This is fine in most outdoor situations as the source and therefore intensity of the light is about the same [ignoring shadows where if your subject is in shadow then simply choose a 'grey' in the shadow or not as according] however indoors you have to be a little smarter.... I meter in a place where I think the subject has as much light and again go for grey. I have a pair of old trainers that are [you guessed it..] grey which is useful if there is as much light by your feet as on the subject... [you look a bit of twat with your foot in the air if not] I believe that most of the time you can take a meter reading or two and then set and just treat the camera as auto exposure. I bet if you use a handheld meter you do this and then put it away in any case? Personally I am not about to mess about running all over the place with a meter thanks.

-- Richard (richard@designblue.co.uk), August 18, 2001.

I almost never use the built-in (reflective) meter in any camera, mainly because it is so easily fooled by the subject's colour or backlighting or white walls. Instead I prefer to take incident light readings using a hand held meter (yes, even when doing candid photography!).

Currently I use a Gossen Sixtomat Flash, mainly for it's compactness and lack of any breakable bits (eg. some meters have lumispheres on pivoting arms - which you just know will break off after a few months field use).

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), August 18, 2001.

I'll bet I've asked it a dozen times of those proponents of incident light meters...how do you handle situations where you are in the shade and the subject is in the sunlight? No one has EVER answered this simple question. I've never found an animal that was willing to stand still while I ran out to get an incident reading:-)

I also agree with those who say that a good spot meter can accomplish the same thing as an incident meter if you learn how to use one.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), August 18, 2001.

Most of my cameras don't have light meters. By habit I tend to use hand held meters for everything. What do I use? For incident readings, I sometimes us a Sekonic L398 [a studio meter which doesn't require batteries]. I am now using, mostly, a Sekonic L508 [I think, I am not big on remembering hardware stuff] which seems to work [I like 1 degree spot]. The best small meter that I have had is an old Gossen Super Pilot. Unfortunately, it uses mercury batteries. The one in it is 10 y old and I have one replacement in the fridge. After that, it is gone. Last week, the pup ate the strap and it is now suspended by chalk line. :)

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), August 18, 2001.

Incident light meters are very useful for understanding light levels and adjusting an in-camera meter. I learned this from watching sports photographers at a pro football game, all of whom had the latest technology cameras (including spot meters) but spent fifteen minutes walking around before the game with incident meters pointing in every direction. I had the opportunity to chat with one, and he pointed out that he could establish where the light was coming from (quite a few reflections inside the stadium) and what to expect in changes of angle between the subject, the light, and the photographer. I often offset my reflected meter based on the difference from incident reading if I'm going to be shooting moving subjects (always people).

One other use for a handheld meter is low light situations. Other than the Olympus SLR line, I've never encountered an in-camera meter with good low light performance. Many of the Gossen meters and the now-discontinued Quantum XP handle exremely low light levels.

I think £400 is a huge amount of money unless you really need flash metering.

I don't understand the sunlight/shade question. I go wherever the subject is, aim at the light source(s). Works every time.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), August 18, 2001.

I'm simply asking how you use in incident light meter when you CANNOT get to where the subject is. This happens all the time in nature photography as well as many other situations.

As for in-camera meter sensitivity, the SL/2, the M5 and the R8 have VERY sensitive and accurate meters.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), August 18, 2001.

Bud, the incident meter was designed originally for movie sets where the lighting is strictly controlled and you can walk up to your subject. It was never designed with wildlife or nature photography in mind and so is not the best meter for these situations. One could (using your example) meter in your bodies shade to get an approximation of what you shaded subject requires, but in fact this is one of the fortes of the spot meter. The current rage of incident ambient/flash meters are designed with the studio photographer in mind, not the nature shooter.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), August 18, 2001.

Right you are Bob!

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), August 18, 2001.

As for in-camera meter sensitivity, the SL/2, the M5 and the R8 have VERY sensitive and accurate meters.

First of all, the sensitivity of any through-the-lens metering system is subject to the lens used. Secondly, because of this, manufacturers typically rate in-camera meters with a very fast lens. Third, the SL2 and M5 meters are limited by the speed settings available. How would anyone get a three minute at f2 reading out of either of these cameras? It's silly to even suggest it...

The Quantum meter gets a full three stops over the R8 rating with an f1.4 lens. With an f2 lens, you are at four less stops, etc. etc. I'm sure brand loyalty is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't change facts.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), August 18, 2001.

Jeff, I was responding to your statement that other than the Olympus SLR line, you have never encountered an in-camera meter with a good low light performance. I didn't realize that the Olympus metering systems were as sensitive as meters such as the Quantum and better than the R8.

In any case, outside the studio I'd swap sensitivity for selectivity.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), August 19, 2001.

I incident meter my M3 portrait work--when I can. (When I can't, I rely on an old, but amazingly accurate, MC meter.)

I use a Gossen Lunastar digital.

http://www.ravenvision.com/peterhughes.htm

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), August 19, 2001.

I own a Sekonic L 308-BII and an old Lunasix 3. It was a toss up for me between the 308B-II and the Gossen Sixtomat Flash, the latter in the same price range if ordered from Robert White in England. Both are shirt pocket slim and compact.

The Sixtomat has some considerable advantages over the Sekonic.

1. It has 3 stops lower low light capability. 2. It remembers the last reading even if switched off. The Sekonics most annoying feature has to be the 2 minute auto-shutoff which causes the last reading to evaporate. Very bad. 3. It displays the ISO at all times, so you are never have to press a separate button to check if you set the right ISO. 3. It has a little f-stop scale, so you can visually check contrast ratios in f- stops between two readings very quickly without doing any mental math, however cursory.

But for me, it was awkward to handle with the dome placed in the front, old style. So I got the Sekonic.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), August 19, 2001.

FWIW, the Olympus meters were senstive down to something like EV -4 in center weighted mode. You could put the camera in auto and shoot 5 minute time exposures or whatever.

And, later models had a cool multi-spot mode that was not as sensitive, but much more selective.

I think the real point here is that no single metering system works in all situations. Low light situations where you are close to your subject are perfect for an incident meter. But, and incident meter doesn't do you much good if you are in the shadow of a mountain and the lion that you are shooting is in the sun 100 yards away.

-- Pete Su (psu_13@yahoo.com), August 19, 2001.

After playing around with many different light meters I settled on the Sekonic 308B. Why? I dont need all the spotmeter features the other meters offer and I would rather have something small and lightweight with a slim profile that fits into my pocket.

-- Russell Brooks (russell@ebrooks.org), August 20, 2001.

The R8 can go to at f1.4 at 32 secs. It may do much better than this too (I don't have one...). An old Yashica Electro would expose automatically up to 3 minutes at night at most apertures with K64 (it was non TTL). Manual cameras clearly cannot do this so well as they are limited from giving you the read out by the slowest shutter speeds and the fastest aperture. Still, personally, I find that once you are over f2 @ 1 sec or so (50ISO film) you might just as well use a simple table which you can find in many books or use the Kodak exposure guide which works just as well, with some judicious bracketing, of course. You may also get your camera to read the exposure by increasing the film speed and doing the necessary calculations.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), August 22, 2001.

Sparkie

I'm a bit late on the subject and many wise things have been said so far. But just to add MHO... I have been using incident light meters as well as spotmeters while working as a professional cinematographer. I have been using almost exclusively built-in meters while happily shooting away as an amateur photographer. Both systems worked for me. The former saved my ass and my professional reputation - the latter my joy and my spontaneity in snatching views which would have vanished or been spoiled by excessive perfectionism. Each goal has its tools.
I have to admit one fact though: my pro life has taught me a lot about lighting and metering - knowledge I have internalized and may use as a corrective to the read-out of restricted metering systems.
This said, I want to point out the latest Sekonic Flash Master L-358 to you. I just read a more than enthusiastic review in a French photographic magazine (Responses Photo) in which I habitually trust for taste and sobriety. I haven't tested it myself, but as far as the reviewer is concerned it's a "best buy" and seems to have overcome the downsides (pointed out by Mani) of predecessor models.
Cheers

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), August 23, 2001.

Thank you Lutz and all before for your valuable insights and information. I am now more informed about the array of options available and can narrow them down based on the different view points. Cheers and regards

-- Sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), August 23, 2001.