Elan7e and built in Flash

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Canon EOS FAQ forum : One Thread

New Elan7e with 28-105 II USM lense. First roll of film. Kodak Max 400 negative film. Settings: Tv mode: shutter priority set at 1/125th second Eye Control Auto focus on AI auto focus mode Evaluative metering All outdoor photos were fine. Indoor flash using built-in flash were not. 7 vertical and 1 horizontal. Vertical photos taken with right hand high. Shooting distance 6-12 feet. Various levels of zoom. Most vertical photos become progrssively darker towards the bottom starting between 1/3 and 1/2 from the bottom. Possibly also darker on the right side. Have read several aritcles but abreviations and terminology is over my head. Is there a good simple explanation about what works automatically and what does not when using flash? Is there any coupling between the variable (aperture) and the distance of the flash from the subject? Is this built-in flash useless? Should I use the flash in manual mode only as in the old days? Or is it something simple such as the shutter speed being too fast even though the manual seems to indicate that 1/125th is fine?

-- Myer Kwavnick (kwavnick_fla@compuserve.com), August 16, 2001

Answers

Were you shooting with the lens hood on? That can block light at the bottom of the frame when using the built-in flash.

-- NK Guy (tela@tela.bc.ca), August 16, 2001.

I'm assuming the dark areas occur if you have the lens at 28mm? I use the 28-135 IS lens on my 7e and the first time I used the built in flash I had dark areas around the edge of the photo and he bottom at 28mm. The reasons are (a) the flash coverage doesn't stretch to 28mm (despite what Canon may claim) and (b) the length of the lens may cause shadows on the bottom of pictures at 28mm, as they did with mine. If you're using a lens hood then this will make the problem worse. Having said all that, using the built in flash at 35mm and up then it's fine for close indoor work. You can use it in automatic mode with confidence. However, I recommend buying the 420EX external flash. This will give great coverage from 28mm to 105mm (it was designed for this camera and the 28-105mm lens) indoors and out. The fill flash outdoors is excellent. You could also try the flash in

mode, as this will automatically set the shutter speed to 1/125 anyway. Have a look at the following web page, which details everything about the 7e including the flash: http://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/frary/elan7e.htm Hope the above is helpful. Nik

-- NikB (ndb_letters@yahoo.com), August 16, 2001.


The computer gremlin removed part of my message. I said you could use the camera in P mode.....

Nik

-- NikB (ndb_letters@yahoo.com), August 16, 2001.


Hood shadowing is a good candidate, but it should affect the top of a horizontal image (left of vertical image right hand high). Doesn't seem to fit.

1/125 is the correct synch speed.

I'm stretching: here is another suggestion: are the batteries fresh / was there adequate recycle time between images? (It doesn't have a flash-ready signal in the viewfinder so that's something you have to keep in mind.)

Stretching further: Do you have any of the custom functions for flash behavior turned on? It shouldn't make any difference if you have rear-synch on, for example, but that might be something to try.

If it's any consolation, mine works fine; it's not a pervasive behavior of the camera. Good luck!

-- Rod Nygaard (rod.nygaard@boeing.com), August 16, 2001.


I mistyped: hood shadowing should affect the bottom of a horizontal shot, the right hand side of a vertical shot, right-hand high. Doesn't seem to fit darkening at the bottom of your vertical frames.

Anyway, don't know your situation but I'll summarize the suggestions from the posts: Use fresh batteries, make sure you're shooting without hood, try Tv at 1/125 and try the P mode as well. The previous poster is certainly right that you'll want to get a more powerful flash that supports full TTL metering; however, you certainly want your on-board flash to work as expected in your new camera.

I'm not sure what your circumstances are, but I'd give it one more test roll as suggested and then if necessary exhange it for a new one (I'm guessing since this is your first roll you're likely still within your initial return/exchange period, hopefully.) :)

***

-- Rod Nygaard (rod.nygaard@boeing.com), August 16, 2001.



Myer,

It is indeed likely something very simple. It is very possible to have your own digits get in the way of pop-up flash. I'd suggest that when you hold the camera vertically, you are cupping the zoom in you left had with your thumb sticking up (and partially obscuring the flash tube). Hold the camera in your hand, in vertical framing, with the flash up and I believe you will see what I mean. I'm always getting on my sister-in-law about this -- she's even worse because she rests the lens on her left thumb, with her four fingers sticking straight up and completely obscuring the flash! :-o

The slight darkening you are seeing on the bottom/right edge of the film is also very likely your lens partially obscuring the flash pattern. I have the same problem when using my 24-85mm USM past about 40mm with the built-in flash. Check your lens when zooming -- some (like my 24-85) will stick way forward at certain focal lengths. That action, along with increased lens barrel diameter, add up to lens shadowing with the pop-up flash. With some experimentation, you will learn at which focal lengths each lens you own might be a problem for you. Lens hoods will definitely make matters worse!

No, the built in flash is not completely useless. It's amazingly convenient when compared to bulky shoe mounted flashes -- but convenience was definitely the primary design consideration. The engineers couldn't design a bulky, telescoping flash unit that would detract from the sleek styling of modern cameras, it couldn’t be too powerfully without sucking the camera batteries dry, etc. The flash is designed primarily for use with small prime lenses or a compact zoom like the EF 28-90. It has a narrow lens barrel, and doesn’t stick out very far. The flash does not cover lenses wider than 28mm (so I have light fall-off at the edges when using my 24-85mm at it’s widest settings). Some reports say the flashes can’t really cover the full 28mm specified either.

When used properly, the flash can be very effective – especially for daytime fill flash. It absolutely is not meant to take the place of shoe mounted flashes (like the 420EX or 550EX). Not only are they far more powerful, and use their own batteries, but their tall position makes it nearly impossible for finger or lens shadowing to occur (OK, OK, if you have a 500 f/2.8L your going to want to take the flash off camera)! The EX flashes also give you near infra-red focus assist (a big plus, even if you plan to use existing light only when you take your shot), and the 550EX can cover out to 17mm with it’s built in retractable diffuser. Their disadvantage is added cost, and bulk – which leads many people not to have them when they suddenly find the need for a flash (hence the pop-up flash was born).

I hope that I have solved your mystery! :-)

-- Hung James Wasson (HJWasson@aol.com), August 17, 2001.


Thanks to all who answered so promptly. The batteries are very fresh. I am not using a lense hood. I read that web page suggested by NikB but much was over my head. Most likely recycle time isn't it as I waited at least half minute between.

It is very possible that Mr Wasson has the answer. I will take another roll and document the distance and zoom of each photo. I did a test and tried holding the camera in photo posture and it is very possible (maybe even likely) my fingers were blocking the bottom of the flash pattern.

-- Myer Kwavnick (kwavnick_fla@compuserve.com), August 17, 2001.


This is a "been-there-cone that" for me. I quote from the EOS 7e instruction manual, page 83.

"If any of the following lenses is attached to the camera, the flash coverage of the built-in flash might be obstructed. Use an external, EOS-dedicated Speedlite with these lenses: Fast lenses such as the EF 17-35mm f/2.8L USM and EF 28-70mm f/2.8L USM."

I use the 28-135 AF-IS, and it is the same problem. Basically, the lens is too "fat" and obstructs the lower portion of the built-in pop- up flash coverage. I bought and use the 550EX. Works great. No more dark areas.

-- Bruce Craig (birdphotographique@yahoo.com), August 23, 2001.


"Vertical photos taken with right hand high.......Most vertical photos become progrssively darker towards the bottom..."

Sounds like a finger or 2 blocking the flash tube when you shoot verticals. My father-in-law did this with his Rebel. Be more carefull, or shoot with right hand low and the left hand suporting the lens. This should keep your fingers away from the flash.

With the built in flash, automatic is the only option. You can set the camera on manual (and set your apeture), but flash exposure is automatic. For indoor flash, I prefere "M" mode, (set the apeture and shutter manually), and have the TTL flash system determine the proper flash output. If you are use to an older autoflash unit (like a vivitar 283), you should be comfortable doing this.

-- kenneth katz (socks@bestweb.net), August 26, 2001.


Myer,

>I want to thank you for your very simple and correct idea about what was wrong with my flash photos using the internal flash on th Elan7e. Several others had very technical possible explanations. You suggested that my fingers were probably blocking the flash causing the lower portion of verticals to be dark.

>I just took another roll and left 6-7 shots for evening indoors with flash. I few were horizontal and a few were vertical. I was careful to compose and then hold the camera with both hands (not the lense blocking the flash). All photos were lit (lighted) evenly and properly.

I’m glad that we were able to quickly find the problem, and that camera defect was not the cause (user error is so much less expense to fix, yes?) ;-)

>I still don't understand if the camera acts differently when the flash is pulled open (expecting a flash photo and not an available light photo) but it must.

I believe that whenever the built-in flash is up the camera’s flash TTL metering routines are triggered. With it down, it tries to expose the scene with ambient light. So yes, the camera does behave differently when the flash is up or down. :-)

>Again. Thanks for that idea.

You are most welcome.

-- Hung James Wasson (HJWasson@aol.com), August 27, 2001.



Moderation questions? read the FAQ