Oh god....watch out for the mackem abuse ;))

http://www.ananova.com/sport/story/sm_375113.html

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Answers

That's still not a huge number of arrests. And considering how many hoy outs for bad language and minor misdemeanors we've all seen, it's not too bad. 8% increase in only 15 more arrests...nowt.

What odds a government gobby twat spokesman spouts off about needing more police powers to curb this criminal element blah blah take away football fans' passports blah every fan to be branded on the forehead blah blah Daily Mail campaign etc

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Just spotted this bit too off of Yahoo!

Interesting stats

"Of the 4,162 arrests relating to all games last year, 1,186 were drink-related, 655 for disorderly behaviour, 420 for threatening behaviour, 165 for affray, 85 for violent disorder, 292 for running on the pitch, 82 for racial or indecent chanting* and 107 for throwing missiles"

*Presumably that would include the monkey's heed song.

And another stat - NUFC offences rate around 4.5% of all these offences. While on the field offences are soley the preserve of Marcelino and makems.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Well I believe the increase in arrests is the repsonsibility of the players and also intolerant policing !!!!! 8-)

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Don't worry - the Makems topped it last year: this changes every PL season.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

*abuse*

Correlate these stats with those for drinking and you have your root cause IMHO.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Not much of a story as it stands there. Who was arrested? Where exactly? Is the figure recorded against Newcastle or Arsenal if a Toon fan is arrested at Highbury? As it stands it's impossible to discern anything from this.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

"The total also included ..... 161 for ticket touting, 15 for breach of a ban, 111 for drugs offences, 57 for theft .....

There were seven arrests for handling stolen goods, 19 people were detained on warrants"

Obvious football hooliganism problems there then ?

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Jonno, we were about the lowest last year and along with Soton, were the only fans not involved in any major disturbances. This season we won the FA's £20000 prize for being best/most sporting fans. These stats don't mean a great deal, in truth.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

In fairness, I anticipate some awful reports in the press about this although they all-bit ignored it last year when the Makems were "top" and thoroughly ignored it the previous season when the Mancs were top.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

http://www.ncis.co.uk/DOWNLOADS/Divisional-Arrest-Figures-2000- 2001.xls This shows what the arrest were for. Mostly drink related or breach of the peace.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

I take it these arrests have to be made in the ground to have counted? Or is it just someone wearing a shirt? Frankly if it's either both teams in the NE are gonna kop it as a. Both grounds are sizable, and b. there's a lot more wearing of shirts or what ever on match days. I doubt that's it's typical of the shoddy interpretation and collection of stats. Lies, Damn lies etc etc.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

I read the Chronic this evening and according to that you can make of these figures anything you like. For example, Sunderland is second in the list and Sunderland is proud of the fact. It means - sorry can't quote - paper not to hand - that they are clamping down on trouble before it arises, implying that those lower in the lists aren't making the arrests they should.

The bliddy Chronic still saw fit to title the piece "Toon tops shame league" or something similar. Absolutely disgraceful journalism. "We haven't got time for the truth - I need a headline".

If only we were given much better information on these issues, akin to Dr Bill's superb piece about the NHS on the "Running down the dream" thread. Compare what is written there with the bilge we are served daily in every newspaper in the land. Presumably because we aren't intelligent enough to analyse the issues properly. Or more likely the journalists aren't intelligent enough to research and write as well as that.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

They've been putting the record straight on Century, pointing out that in 3 trips to Europe this summer, we haven't had a single arrest and the mayors of all three towns had been in touch praising our behaviour.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Statement on official site (Sorry if it's already been posted).

NEWCASTLE UNITED CLUB STATEMENT NATIONAL CRIMINAL INTELLIGENCE SERVICE REPORT Following the release of a report this morning by the National Criminal Intelligence survey, which detailed that the number of arrests for football-related offences went up 8.1% last season, and that Newcastle United topped the list for the highest number of arrests in the Premiership, the Club have made the following comments through Safety Officer, David Pattison: "We were naturally concerned to learn that Newcastle United headed the table for arrests in the Premiership, a matter we take very seriously, however we are very keen to emphasise that much of the report refers to public disorder away from football stadia, and as such is not directly attributable to Newcastle United Football Club. "We have an excellent safety record within St James' Park and it is a very safe place to watch football. Last season there were 19 arrests inside the stadium and 21 arrests outside on matchdays at Newcastle United, a figure well down from the 1999/2000 season when there were 51 arrests. In addition, these arrests were for minor public disorder offences, rather than specific cases of football violence.

"Bearing in mind during last season our stadium capacity was increased from 36,800 to 52,226 which resulted in over 1,050,000 spectators attending and we achieved a 25% reduction in arrests in and around the stadium, we are pleased to report we only had on average 1.6 arrests per game.

"Furthermore, it should be noted that the final figures from last season are somewhat inflated as they include 92 arrests in Sunderland on the occasion of our match at the Stadium of Light in April, arrests which led to only 5 charges being brought against our supporters.

"That said, we will continue to work very closely with our colleagues in the Police and Safety Officers across the country in order to try and eliminate the damage the minority of so called supporters do to the reputation of Newcastle United and football in general through their mindless acts of disorder."

Russell Cushing, United's Chief Operating Officer added:

"These figures have to be reviewed in the light of our fans' success in winning the Premier League Fair Play Award last season. Their good behaviour was recognised and applauded throughout the Premier League during the season in question."

Also interesting looking into the stats on the link Stu gave. Almost all the offences were drink related. Hardly any violence (4 threatening behaviour, 3 Affray, 1 violent disorder,2 Assault). Almost all of them came into the categories of Drink, Disorderly behaviour (not forming queues?) and Breach of the peace. Also only 3 incidents of racial/indecent chanting. cf ManU - 12 Threatening behaviour, 5 Affray, 7 Assault. Doesn't seem quite so bad does it?

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

I suppose I should add for our Mackem friends, Sunderland - 4 Threatening behaviour, 4 Affray, 6 Assault. No Racial/Indecent chanting however. Songs about Shearer mustn't count :o))

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Just read that myself Pilgrim. My initial thought when I saw the bland stats above was exactly that - we increased the capacity from 36K to 52K. Hardly surprising that a few to$$er$ were included in the additional 16K.

Sure, it's not acceptable and every effort should be made to reduce it to zero (not by not arresting offenders!). But don't let's get overly worried about it. Interesting that England stats aren't included (I presume).

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

England Stats are there Screach.

http://www.ncis.co.uk/DOWNLOADS/Arrests-2000-2001-Total.pdf

I'll let you do the analysis.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Bu99er!! So, there were 115 arrests when Ingerlund were involved and 1623 in the EPL. NUFC are 5% of the EPL. I rest my case ;-)

Well, that's enough analysis from me, tho I could point out that in the EPL, there would have been circa 760 matches (??), of which NUFC would be involved in 38. Tthe club statement says that we had an average of 1.6 arrests per game. Ingerlund would likely have been involved in circa 10 games (max). So where is the headline??? Not as Ronnie indicated ;-)

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

One glaring anomoly which jumped out from these stats ate me was as follows:

Arrests for Breach of the Peace:

Manure 1, Liverpool 1, Toon ............. 82 !!!!!!

These stats obviously say considerably more about the attitudes of the local police forces than they do about the fans.

Another interesting bit - if you look at the Log of Football hooligansim for the year virtually NONE of the incidents take place in footie grounds. Some of them are miles away in both time and place, eg Stoke fans causing trouble in Derby on the way home from another match somewhere else.

For years now I have been incensed by the way in which incidents of hooliganism have been attributed to football when they are patently nowt to do with it. Suppose some guy gets pissed at Covent Garden and has a fight with his taxi driver over the fare afterwards - is that Opera Hooligansim? What if a bloke on the way home from the cinema has a ding dong with some guy for cutting him up at a roundabout - is that Movie Hooliganism? But what if the guy he fights is a footie fan and he has a couple of mates with him - immediately it's football hooliganism.

I know I haven't expressed this very well but I get fed up to the back teeth of football being linked to what is simply neanderthal behaviour by blokes with too much drink inside them or who are of a sufficiently psychotic nature to want to kick the sh*t out of each other. If you shut down every football ground in the country behaviour of this nature would still take place. It's NOWT TO DO WITH FOOTBALL.

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

How about an alternative way of looking at it:

"Sunderland AFC today responded to National Criminal Intelligence Service figures for arrests and violence in football. Sunderland is extremely proud of its renowned family atmosphere and large attendances at the Stadium of Light and strictly enforces a zero tolerance approach to safety to safeguard this.

The club is proud of its arrest figures and indeed aims to be placed high in the NCIS table, to illustrate to all supporters that anti social behaviour will not be tolerated at the Stadium of Light. Sunderland believes that its position as second in this table is a positive message for supporters and actively aims to be at the top of this list, rather than the bottom. Some clubs lower in the table, that are not arresting supporters, could be allowing the problem of poor behaviour to continue at their matches.

Those who simply eject supporters from their grounds are moving anti social behaviour elsewhere - for example in the streets surrounding stadiums - rather than taking positive steps to stop it as Sunderland is striving to do.

Sunderland's Vice Chairman, John Fickling said: "Almost 1 million people attended games at the Stadium of Light last season. Many of these were families, as the club boasts a high percentage of female season ticket holders and youngest average age in the Premier League.

"As a result, we will simply not tolerate anti social behavior such as supporters being intoxicated or involved in offensive chanting. Any instances of this behaviour results in the person involved being arrested rather than simply being ejected, which is common at some football stadiums. We will continue to make a firm stand against anti social behavior and as a result will contiune to lead the field in the number of arrests we make.

"Arrests of Sunderland supporters at the Stadium of Light numbered 107 (out of approx. 1 million attendees) last season and it is important to note that the majority of arrests were for 'drunkenness at a football stadia' as opposed to organised hooliganism and violence.

"Whilst the club does not condone or believe any anti-social behaviour is acceptable it is important to highlight that the figures do not represent an organised hooligan element or contingent of violent supporters at the Stadium of Light. If one looks at the situation nationally, Sunderland does not have a problem with organised football hooliganism.

"To suggest this would be extremely unfair to the vast proportion of Sunderland fans who are well-behaved. Most of the arrests were for minor infringements and in many cases the fans involved modified their behaviour immediately."

-- Anonymous, August 15, 2001

Excellent contributions from Jacko and ML3. Interestingly the bastion of social permissivness known as The Daily Telegraph was moved to comment today:

Daily Telegraph: A free country - Putting the boot in

IT is no surprise that football hooliganism is said to have increased over the past year, given that the definition of a "football-related offence" has changed. Previously, only crimes within a few hours of kick-off were included in statistics; now crimes within a day either side of the match count, and so the number of offences has inevitably gone up.

If somebody deals in drugs among the crowd outside a football match, then it is right to keep an eye out for him near stadiums. But it is wrong to peg the crime specifically to the sport. Already the police can stop someone going to a foreign football match on suspicion that he might commit an offence, but not if he's off to a stag night in Amsterdam or a holiday in Ayia Napia - where he might be just as likely to break the law.

Now the National Criminal Intelligence Service wants to prevent people not convicted of any offences from travelling to domestic games. The draconian approach implies that a taste for football brings on an affection for breaking the law. The real answer is that criminals often like football, in the same way that they might like fishing, television or karaoke - pastimes that remain undemonised. Fiddling the figures and devising new laws obscure the pleasant truth: that the fans' behaviour, along with the standard of football and football grounds, has in fact got better, not worse, in recent decades.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

Sure that wasn't a quote from the Guardian? F**k me, The Telegraph making allowances for football fans. Is the world coming to an end?

Yours, Disgruntled of Havering.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

In recent weeks they've also advocated the decriminilisation of cannabis. I think the "digusted of Tunbridge Wells" generation are starting to die off and that the paper is having to rethink some of it's old prejudices in order to attract a younger readership.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

So what can I read now then? :-)

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

The Mag - that should get your blood boiling!

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

Not really - I'm reliably informed that it says entirely different stuff inside to what's on the cover. :-)

I see they've seen fit to repeat that cover in the new issue. Who's the lass on the front and why is she there?

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

She's just a pretty face in a babyish sort of way, what she has to do with football i just don't know

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

Jonno, shall I send you the Consett and Stanley Advertiser?

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

shall I send you the Consett and Stanley Advertiser?

A nice offer Dougal but it would arrive too late at the nerve centre here to be of any great use. Naturally, I'm queuing outside the paper shop just before it's issued. I always get 2 copies, one is read through thoroughly and remains on my desk for quick reference, and the other is wrapped in polythene and carefully stacked alongside my treasured "collector's items".

Thanks anyway. :-)

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001