The 35mm framelines on the 0.58 finder are just about perfect for an eyeglasses wearer like me. Looking at the Leica viewfinder sheet (you know, the one at the beach) seems to show that the .85 finder with the 50mm frame line would look just like the 35mm frame line on the 0.58. Excellent! So what's the question?

Can and eyeglasses wearer readily see the metering diodes on the 0.85 finder at the same time they see the entire 50mm frame line?

Thanks.

And, if anyone wants to reason that the 0.72 finder is a better choice for the 50mm lens, I'd like to hear your thoughts, again, especially respecting eyeglasses wearers.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), August 01, 2001

Answers

I think its a trade-off Dan. Personally, I can't justify a 0.58 body because of the loss of focusing accuracy as compared to a 0.72 or better yet a 0.85 body. The only thing that is appealing about the 0.58 is that the 24 mm coverage is pretty close so if you're using the 24 Elmarit then you can "guesstimate" without the removable finder. Otherwise, you can still get a pretty good higheyepoint view of the 35 framelines in the 0.72 and the .85 is definitely better for 50 mm and above. The only hole in my logic is if you're an adamant 28 mm user for which the 0.58 caters quite nicely.

My outfit:

24 Elmarit/ 35 cron on 0.72 body 50 cron/ 75 lux on 0.85 body

contemplating the purchase of a 90 apo cron or 90 tele-elmarit (late)

Some people (not me) feel that a 28 cron can substitute for my first two wide-angles. Personally, I find that the 28 doesn't have enough coverage for environmental close-up portraits. But if I was a 28 user then the first line would read:

28 cron on 0.58 body.

Compromises add color to life nes pas?

-- John (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), August 01, 2001.

Dan,

The metering diodes can be seen clearly. Doesn't matter what the magnification is, the diodes are all placed at the same spot in the viewfinder.

If you are getting the 0.85 for use with the 50 or longer, i'd say that would be a better choice than the 0.72. And considering you have a 0.58, that's a no-brainer.

cheers, jonny

-- jonny (jonnytan1234@yahoo.com), August 01, 2001.

First, the metering diodes are in the same place with respect to the periphery, regardless of the finder magnification model. Second, the carrying 2 different magnifications for different lenses sounds like just what Leica marketing was dreaming of, but I wouldn't want to do it. What if the 0.58 breaks, how would I use my 35mm for the 2 months Leica has it in the shop? Would I need one black and one silver, to help me remember which is which when I'm hurriedly changing lenses? Currently I own 2 M6 0.72's and an M4, plus a Hexar RF which is 0.6x, and I wear glasses. I have no desire for an 0.85x and I wish the Hexar was 0.72. My glasses are the new "featherweight" lenses which are thinner for any given Rx, and the frames I chose are just barely larger than my eyes themselves and flex without permanently bending, so I can press into the finder and get my eye almost as close as if I weren't wearing glasses. The result is I can just perceive the complete outline of the 35mm framelines on the M6's (the M4's 35 frame is ever so slightly larger) and with a quick survey, see the 28 framelines also. I much prefer the accessory 28 finder even with the Hexar, because I like the "28mm look" which the camera finder doesn't replicate. If I only used a 50mm lens or longer (or 50 and shorter) I might be convinced to buy the .58 or .85, one or the other. But not both. For someone who uses a full complement of lenses as I do, the 0.72 works out just fine.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), August 01, 2001.

Jay,

I use the black and silver thing to distinguish my cameras.

Black 0.72 and silver 0.85. Curiously, I find that people on the street respond more favorably to the silver body with a black lens. I guess it looks less professional thus less predatory?

-- John (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), August 01, 2001.

The diodes are visible to eyeglass wearers in all finders. I wear glasses, and have no trouble with the 50mm frame in the .85, though I can't use the 35mm frame without working at it.

I think the .58 and .85 make a dynamite two-body combo. I use the 3E or primes up to 50mm on the .58, and anything 50 or over on the .85. I find both bodies acceptable for use with the 50, though they give very different impressions. On the .58 a 50 feels like a short tele, while on the .85 it feels mildly wide.

I think the .58 is the best viewfinder for a 35mm lens since the M2. The only time I use my .72 any more is when I know I'll need both a 35 and a 90, and only want to carry one body.

-- Paul Chefurka (paul_chefurka@pmc-sierra.com), August 01, 2001.

About distinguishing the bodies - I use a black Softie on the .58, and a silver one on the .85. I suppose I could use Dymo tape on the top plate instead, though...

-- Paul Chefurka (paul_chefurka@pmc-sierra.com), August 01, 2001.

Thanks everyone, for your comments. Paul, you seem to have both cameras handly. I notice in Leica's viewfinder comparison that the diodes get closer to the edge as the magnification increases. Did Leica make a printing mistake? Would you be so kind as to look at the 0.58 and 0.85 and confirm that the location of the diodes is indeed in the same (similar) position. Thanks very much for your time.

Dan

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), August 01, 2001.

On the .58TTL the diodes are in line (or just a bit below) the 35mm frame line. On the .85 Classic they are halfway between the 35 and 50mm frame lines. They're both in approximately the same position in the overall finder window.

-- Paul Chefurka (chefurka@home.com), August 01, 2001.

Best finder for a fifty? That is easy. Just mount a SBOOI/12015 finder! It is life size so you can open both eyes and have the framelines floating in your field of view. Cosina/Voigtlander makes one as well but I do not know if it is life size.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), August 01, 2001.

To distinguish bodies I bought different color Abrahamsson Softreleases, available in silver, black, red, and green. Regardless of body finish, M2, M3, M4, M6, or Hexor, I use a particular color softrelease to match the viewfinder magnification - silver for .58/.60, black for .72, and green for .85/.91. The same idea can be used to distinguish film types in similar bodies. They can be moved around from body to body easily and leave no tape sticky.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), August 02, 2001.

Ooops...my mistake...softreleases aren't usable on the Hexar - no cable release hole in the shutter button. But they're usable on all the M bodies. $10 each.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), August 02, 2001.

I prefer the .72x for the 50mm because the frameline is an uninterrupted rectangle while with the .85x the lower frameline is missing most of it.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), August 03, 2001.

I prefer using 0.85 m6 with 50mm lens (latest). With the lens shade extended , it only blocks a little bit the bottom right corner of the 50 frame line. BTW since I use Leica M cameras, nobody asks me if I am a professional photog. The best (SLR) finder for 50mm lens (by the weight)is Olympus OM1. With my both eyes open, it seems seamless stiching the views from my left eye (real) and right eye (the viewfinder) together. And the om1's penta prism is so small.

-- kenny chiu (amchiu@worldnet.att.net), August 05, 2001.

I also like the .72 for the 50, it feels like a tele and as Ray says it doesnīt gets the shade in the frame; but when I want to feel the 50 in itīs wides posibilities like close up shooting I prefer the M3 and itīs .91.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), August 05, 2001.