good dog-cat relationships

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I'm a devoted reader of Xeney and I hope you will all share your expertise with me. How can I foster a good relationship between my three cats and Lucy, my newly adopted 8-month-old Shepherd mix? My cats are wonderful and my husband and I are used to spending a lot of time with them. They don't seem fearful of or hostile toward Lucy; unfortunately, my husband and I are new at the dog thing and it's not as easy for us to read her attitude toward the cats. We've let the dog and cats sniff each other through a crack in the sliding glass door and Lucy looks alert but not hostile; that, however, is also how she looks before lunging at rabbits or bugs. Most people we talk to sound mildly surprised that we are so worried about this, and they seem perfectly resigned to having their cats chased and generally made miserable by the dog. This is absolutely not an option for us. Please help!

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001

Answers

My declawed* cat spent two days on top of the wardrobe when the puppies arrived. She quickly realized that she could fool them with her displays of ferocity. (Mental image: 10 pound cat chasing two 40 pound lab puppies through the house. Priceless. I laughed until I cried.)

While out walking, my remaining dog (found a home for the other one) discovered that most cats have claws, and now she leaves them alone. I'd bet your kitties will have your puppy trained in a day or two at most. If/when Lucy lunges, you'll hear a yelp, and after that, she'll think twice before lunging. And she's persistent, you just have to train her to leave them be, just like she has to leave your shoes alone, or the chicken on the countertop.

Incidentally, my now 70 pound lab plays with the cat, and she's very gentle with her. It's a sight.

*Yes, I'm a rotten person, I had my cat declawed, and I've always regretted it. I wouldn't recommend it, either. I didn't think I had a choice when I had it done.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001


Saundra, you may have to accept the fact that your cats are going to be miserable for a while. They're cats; they probably don't accept change very well. And an eight-month old German Shepherd is just going to take a lot more of your time than your cats do, at least for a while, and that's going to make the cats sad and annoyed.

Teach the dog the "leave it" command as soon as possible, and don't leave her unsupervised with the cats until you trust her. It sounds like she has a pretty high prey drive, so I'd watch her. Your cats may scratch her, and you want to be around when that happens so you can (a) tell the dog to back off, (b) make sure she didn't get hit in the eye, and (c) monitor her reaction. Doc whines and pouts and backs off when he gets nailed; Mochi swats 'em back. I'm secretly cheering for Mochi (my cats are mean), but she gets reprimanded anyway because she's big and she could really hurt a cat without trying very hard. The rule is that the cats are in charge. It just has to be that way.

It can take a while, but my dogs and cats all sleep together now (yes, even Rudy), and sometimes during the day I'll find all or most of them sacked out in the living room. I knew they'd made absolute peace when I saw all three cats asleep on their backs, bellies exposed, in the middle of the floor, within six feet of all three dogs. Mochi and Crash still chase the cats a lot, but only when the cats tolerate it. It's usually Sally, and she usually starts it, and it's obviously fun for her, too.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001


My three cats have lived with anything from one to six dogs. The one constant dog is a greyhound who used to chase fake bunnies for a living, and all the others were various breeds of mastiffs. There was only one dog who was ever even remotely a match for the cats, and that's mostly because he developed this eerie zen-like thing where he'd sit perfectly still and calm until the cats came up to bother him, and then he'd snap when they had their guard down.

All the other dogs got schooled by the cats very quickly. There were a few scratched faces, especially until the dogs learned the Venus Flytrap game (lesson: do not sniff the tummy of a "sleeping" cat). One of my cats is so desperate for affection from any and all living things that she would *chase* 200-lb dogs around the house trying to get them to love on her. The greyhound whimpered at the cats the first two times he saw them; now he pays zero attention to them except to bark when they try to eat his food. Sometimes he likes to sneeze on them, too.

When I had a lot of dogs in the house, I made sure I had a baby gate up so that the cats would have somewhere to go and be in peace - usually the bathroom or the spare bedroom. They have an old dresser with their food on top (keeps the dogs out of it) and I'll pull open a drawer or two for them to nap in, but they're just as happy sleeping on the bed with the dog.

Most of the time, it's the dogs who are tortured by the cats, not the other way around. Give them a safe place to hide during the high- curiosity phase, and supervise their first few interactions carefully. If the dog gets too excitable, tell her "No kitty!" until she starts to get the idea. Everything should be fine after an adjustment period.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001


Make sure that you supervise the animals until they've established their personal boundaries. When we first got Loki, Freya scratched him in the eye. (He's fine now but we did have a panicked trip to the vet).

After that incident, Loki learned to steer clear of Freya. Our other cat, Milo, is great friends with Loki. It really depends on the individual personality of the animal.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001


My god Beth, that just sounds too damned cute.

The more important question is, where are the pictures of this 8 month old German Shephard?

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001



good advice! :)

especially re: prey drive as they sometimes don't *mean* to hurt (or kill!) cat(s) but it doesn't take much for a large breed dog to hurt a cat... i would keep dog on leash (+/- gentle leader) for a bit and test with outside distractions (birds, other cats, dogs, etc) prior to trying with your own cats who don't know to be afraid of dogs.

my own cats are not afraid and don't run, therefore are not fun to chase, which seems to be the main thing... running, possibly vocalising cat is *fun fun fun* to chase and then things can escalate quite quickly from there, so please be careful

get some cat smelling things and place in dog's crate so she gets used to the smell

when she is calm and quiet and not giving the 'fun prey' look at the cats lots of praise and food treats/attention/etc

consult your vet if you are worried! they can advise re: doggie behaviour(s) and/or refer you to a canine behaviourist

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001


We got a 6 week old puppy when our cats were around 8 years old. The cats mostly stayed away from the pup who was only too happy to have new playmates. I got them to tolerate each others' company by stuffing their faces with treat snacks when they were together on the bed. The cats got Pounce and the pup got liver treats. Rewarding them in each other's presence seems to have worked out quite nicely as they now play together and the dog doesn't terrorize strange cats on our walks.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001

Cathy, O Vet Who Knows How Much I Love My Bird, what is your opinion of introducing a labbish dog into a house run by a cockatiel? With people worrying about their cats when they get a dog, is any chance a bird would be safe, in your experience?

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

I second the suggestion about introducing them with the dog on a leash. I got a kitten a month ago, and I already had a 5 1/2 year old beagle. Once they were introduced (and actually, she who saddled me with the kitty is a former dog trainer and has incredible voice control over the beagle, so we didn't bother putting him on a leash), they chased each other around for a while, kitty hissed and swiped, beagle was trained. They still play, but the beag is really quite gentle with her. She viciously pounces on him, but can't really do any damage, unless you count annoying the crap out of him. I put softpaws on her Monday night, but don't tell the beag. Shh.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

I would like to report that my cat Sally now likes the dogs more than she likes me. That's fine, because I like the dogs more than I like her. This is after two solid years of hissing, too. Now she's a complete slut with the dogs, and would rather be petted by them than by me.

I do think sometimes simple size is a factor -- Doc is way more polite with cats than either of the other two dogs are, but he's just too big. Even Sally is a little scared of him, and he would never hurt a cat on purpose. I think maybe he steps on them, or rolls over on them, or just gets in their way with his big fat ass.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001



Oh! I also forgot about the vital part of my first greyhound-to-cat meetings: a muzzle. I think a good basket muzzle is hard to find (I was well advised to buy one at the racing supply shop while I was in Kansas in the middle of racing farm territory), but you can find them online at several greyhound rescue group sites. I love my plastic basket muzzles and use them for any pointy-faced dog. Because they don't touch their mouths (they rest on the bridge of the nose; if you get one, put a piece of foam weatherstripping there on the muzzle as padding), the dogs don't get quite so agitated about having them on, and while they *can* bite through them if they try really hard, I find that cats and vets bounce right off them.

I keep one under the seat of my car to use when I'm taking Dork in to the vet for something that might hurt enough for him to snap, and we also muzzled him (and any new dog) during initial introductions to cats.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001


Many thanks to everyone for the information and encouragement. After reading all of your case histories and wise suggestions, my husband and I felt more confident about things and decided to give Lucy a well-supervised chance to make friends with the cats. We put a baby gate in the doorway of her room, leaving a small gap at the bottom, and I played with her in there while my husband sat in the hall with the cats. Each time she and the cats approached the gate there was much petting and praising on both sides, and Lucy soon started wagging her tail and even lay down in what looked like a play invitation. The cats backed away whenever she got too close but they didn't run. Who knows how beautifully things might have developed if only I were an experienced dog person; I didn't recognize what Lucy's sudden floor-sniffing meant until she squatted by the door and began peeing on the carpet. So the blossoming friendship was interrupted by anguished cries of "No! OutSIDE!" and frantic stuffing of cats into other rooms so we could take her out to finish her business. Who knows what they are all going to make of that! In any case, it was your input that made us feel there was really a chance Lucy and the cats could get along nicely. We finally felt less tension and were able to act natural and speak in genuinely calm voices, and I think that's what made Lucy treat the cats as potential friends.

Of course we're not taking it for granted that Lucy is now going to behave perfectly to the cats, so I'd appreciate some advice on pacing the rest of the intro. Should we do some more of the baby gate thing, or just pop the Gentle Leader on and let her encounter the cats when she comes back inside after a walk? I think Lucy is ok on the "leave it" command, although we generally have to be pretty mean-sounding to get her to listen when she's feeling sorely tempted. This is a problem with her training in general; when she gets squirrely only a really mean voice will make her mind, and sometimes even that doesn't work. Of course we are not adopting the yell-like-a-crazed-maniac training method; we do our best to offer alternative behaviors and reward her for them. But sometimes we just can't think fast enough! We had a trainer come to the house and are supposed to start taking Lucy to informal dog classes once a week, but if we wait until she's well trained before exposing her to the cats I think we will all go crazy. Our living situation is becoming terribly strained as we try to keep her separate from them.

Right now Lucy spends a lot of time in a very large crate in an upstairs bedroom, with us taking her out during the day as much as we can: an hour's running and playing at a nearby baseball diamond in the morning (we don't have a fenced yard yet), two brief afternoon walks each followed by an hour or so of playing indoors, an hour-long evening walk, and a brief potty outing before bedtime. We always sit with her awhile after putting her in her crate, and we take turns sleeping with her at night. In spite of all this, I think she feels isolated and it makes her act unruly when we take her out, because she knows it's just a matter of time before she gets popped back into her crate again. My mom says we are treating her like a foreign object in the house and that she won't be able to adjust if she's not allowed to be part of the household routine. But (setting aside the cat problem) if we let her be out with us a lot, will she have even more trouble when the fall semester starts and I have to be away at class for hours at a stretch, leaving her in her room if not in her crate?

Any further guidance from all of you will be gratefully received. Although (what with the new-dog craziness going on) I couldn't respond separately to each bit of advice that was so kindly offered, each one provided much-needed info and support. We've consulted books, our vet and a professional trainer, but hearing about your different experiences somehow helps us to feel less lost. Again, thank you!



-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001


With the crating, you might want to work more on making the crate the biggest funhouse in the world. Goulash goes in there willingly, frequently (though he still makes a bit of noise when we leave), and happily. Every time I take him out I put a mini-biscuit in the crate (treat for his return), I keep it filled with things to do (a Buster Cube or Treat Ball right now), and I frequently pop him in for just a few minutes so that he learns that it doesn't always mean that he'll be left in there when I close the door. He's actually starting to hang out in there during the day and actively prefers it at night (I can leave the door open and he stays in there). Sounds like you already got all the good advice on the cat. Best of luck!

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

This is a problem with her training in general; when she gets squirrely only a really mean voice will make her mind, and sometimes even that doesn't work.
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that it's not even really a "problem." It's called being eight months old. If she knows the commands and you're consistent with them, she will probably shock the heck out of you by suddenly being a nice, well-behaved dog when she's about two. Good news: she's probably at her most annoying and rebellious stage right now, so this may be as bad as she gets.

I'd definitely start letting her interact more with the household. As long as she's still spending enough time in the crate to be used to it, she'll be okay when you go to school. Right now she needs to adapt herself into your family life, and that includes the cats and just hanging out with you guys around the house.

Dogs are amazingly adaptable -- way more so than cats -- but if you wait too long, she'll start to think that the crate is her space and the rest of the house is a foreign country.

Good luck. She sounds like a really nice dog, and it sounds like you guys are doing a great job with her.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001


Lyn, I just read your message about the muzzle. I can see that it would be a good way to further ensure the cats' safety, but I'm worried it will make Lucy really tense. She has adjusted fairly well to walking on leash but dislikes the Gentle Leader, and I'm afraid adding yet another level of confinement might make her too nervous to relax around the cats. On the other hand, two nights before the successful baby-gate experience my husband saw Lucy lunge at one of the cats from the other side of the sliding glass door, and he said he heard her teeth snap. I suspect maybe she couldn't smell the cat and didn't yet know him by sight (she used to bark at my husband and me when she could see us but not smell us), but of course I'm not sure about that. My husband yelled NO and even Alpha-rolled her--although we don't really want to start that sort of discipline because I've read that it can backfire--and after that she came over by the crack and sniffed at the cat without displaying further aggression. We rewarded her calmness with treats and she wagged her tail. There has been no further lunging. Consensus?

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001


Thanks, h, for the suggestions about the crate. Lucy does get a biscuit when she goes in there, and she has a Nylabone and a Kong to chew, but putting her in for little bits at a time is something we hadn't thought of. I'll start putting surprises in the Kong, too, and we will get more crate toys for her once our finances recover a little from the many new-dog purchases we've already made. I can't believe we are the same people who used to hesitate about spending five bucks on a cat toy. Of course, our cats have always preferred wads of paper, paper bags, and pieces of ribbon to play with anyway.

Beth, it's a relief to hear that Lucy's antics may just be due to her age. We are going to follow your advice and begin keeping her around us more, and I know this will make all of us (except possibly the cats at first) much happier. Thanks for calming us down.

I realize you may want to wrap up this topic, but in case you are willing to answer more questions: do you think we should let the cats near Lucy's crate? When they approach the crate while she's closed into it, she scrabbles at the bars and they run away. I don't want her to get too aggressive about her crate in case they go near it sometime when she is loose, and I'm not sure of the best way to handle this.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001


One thing I just remembered--when we are home, we almost never crate Goulash (other than the occasional 5-10 minute bout). When he was new here and we weren't sure about whether he would chew or chase the cat, we "umbilical corded" him all of the time. You take a leash (at least 6 feet) and tie one end to your belt and clip it to the dog. They learn to follow you around and bond with you, and you can teach them appropriate in-house behaviour because they are never out of eyesight. It worked really, really well. Especially on the chewing front.

Something Beth clued me in to: the best dog toy in the whole world is a cardboard tube--toilet paper roll or wrapping paper or paper towel. We save all of them now and dole them out as we see fit.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

Yeah, I save them from work now. I'm the crazy dog lady with all the paper towel rolls.

Cats near the crate: if they're tormenting the dog that's bad, but my cats started sleeping on top of the crate pretty early on, long before they were willing to be near the dog at any other time. I wound up putting a cat bed on top of the crate, which turned out to be a great way to get the dog used to ignoring the cats.

Downside: my dogs have long since stopped using the crate, but I can't get rid of it because the damn cats like it so much. In fact, Sally sleeps inside it, and Rudy and Ben still sleep on top. Stupid cats.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001


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