here is the Link just in case this doesn't post correctly

Lingerie Closes the Gender Gap

Tuesday, July 31, 2001 By Jennifer D'Angelo

NEW YORK — For most men, the question of what undergarments to wear consists of a simple decision: boxers or briefs?

But thanks to the efforts of a Southern California retailer, guys can now choose among an assortment of silky-soft skivvies, from pink net thongs to lacy blue panties.

Framm, who goes by one name and owns Hidden Vestments, a Santa Monica-based lingerie shop, said she first realized the need for more sensual men's underwear when she caught boyfriends and husbands copping feels of the silky fabrics she sold at her former store, a bridal shop.

"The men were coming in to look at the lace, to touch the lace and the silk," she said. "And then it hit me."

She began selling items for men, and has since expanded her product line to four categories of lingerie: Luxe, Classics, Essentials and Midnight. Highlights (sold on hiddenvestments.com) include: a lace-edged midriff-baring vest-and-boxer set ($136); a blue floral lace tank-and-brief set trimmed with ivory lace ($40); a pink net thong edged in black lace ($32); a black "boudoir" teddy ($130); a black "cabaret set" lace-up bustier and bicycle pants ($98); and a red silk camisole-and-boxers set ($75).

Framm said she is far from the first person to make luxurious underwear for men.

"In pre-Victorian France, Germany and England, mostly the aristocrats wore lace because it was so costly," she said. "The men wore it on their cuffs and scarves and had it trimmed on their underwear. The women were plainer."

As evidence that the trend has resurfaced, Framm pointed to director Billy Bob Thornton, who admitted in an interview with the Toronto Sun that he occasionally enjoys wearing his wife Angelina Jolie's underwear, and a Rolling Stone cover featuring Brad Pitt wearing a teddy-like dress.

"At first we thought it would just be for gay men. We were very pleasantly surprised," Framm said.

In fact, it was only after a number of engaged couples came to her bridal shop in search of matching wedding-day underwear that she finally decided to create "something more comfortable" for men.

"Sexperts" were not surprised to hear of the trend.

"The new breed of man can get away with this," said Ron Louis, co-author of The Sex Lover's Book of Lists and co-producer of the Web site howtosucceedwithwomen.com. "Most cross-dressers are heterosexual — it's a huge turn-on for guys," he said.

Gay, straight, married or single, Framm said her customers are satisfied. While she declined to reveal the names of any clients, some of whom she said are big-name celebrities, she did divulge the contents of one happy shopper's thank-you letter:

"I'm a married guy that likes to wear this pretty stuff under my business suit. I love the way it feels, and knowing I may have on sexier undies than most of the women in the office. Please send a catalogue so my wife can pick out something nice for my birthday."

Sex therapist Alexandra Myles said a man's connection to lingerie may have its roots in adolescence, when many boys first form "an erotic bond" with women's undergarments. She also said that, among her clients, it is the men who have chosen "macho" professions, such as military careers, who most enjoy cross-dressing.

"These men are in very gender-identified roles. They need to balance by playing out their feminine side," she said.

But not surprisingly, the average Joe Boxer had mixed feelings about the prospect of wearing pretty panties. When asked if he would be interested in experimenting with lingerie, one 24-year-old resident of the Queens borough of New York City seemed horrified.

"I'm shocked and appalled — I'm going to have nightmares of myself running around in hot pink boxers with lace," was his initial response.

But then, after mulling it over for a minute, he reconsidered.

"Give me a year or so going with the same girl ..." he mused.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Answers

you gotta click on the link I guess to see the pictures. IMHO, well worth the price of admission. LOL

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Is what true?

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

that guys are wanting more ... frilly undies than their women...

Somehow thinking of my big guy in these just send me LMAO...

I can see him hit the exit door quicker than lightening if I bought him something like this.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Remember the scenes in Bull Durham where the young whippersnapper pitcher, Tim Robbins has to stop THINKING so much about his pitches and just throw the damn ball? The solutions was to have Robbins wear a garter belt so that as he moved he would be distracted by the feel. But Koster somehow knows enough to tell him that the flower goes in the front (or is it the side?).

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

These aren't Guys who are interested in such stuff. They're Fellas!

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

I don't believe I am telling this!!!! as a joke one time, I got dressed real sexy, and put on make up, and fixed my hair, and squirted perfume in all the right places. lowered the lights, and played some sexy mood music...and let him have his way...as he slowly removed each skimpy piece of out where...I had the biggest surprise still waiting to be "unvieled"..very slowly he untied the tie to the shirt and the wrap around fell slowly, gently to the floor, there I stood before him tanned, bare-breasted and in HIS JOCKEY SHORTS!!!!!!! They were quite comfortable...I was thinking ladies might find them quite enjoyable to wear!

Well he rolled on the floor laughing...he never knows what I may have up my sleeve, or ..well..never mind. (giggle)

then there's that time with the cherry lifesavers............

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Silk feels good, no matter who it is on.

On the hottest summer nights I wear a pair of men's boxers with a tank top, It's cooler than my nightgown, and besides, men and kids get to have underwear with fun dopey cartoon characters on it but I can't find my usual bikinis in anything silly.

I once waited in bed with the black negligee and all, and only at the last moment turned to him to show that I was wearing a clip-on mustache. He was quite befuddled...

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Oh, that.

I doubt fellas are interested in this. It's the cross-dressers and drag queens. And not all fellas fall into those two catagories.

I think it is more married men. They are locked into a lifestyle that does not allow too much experimenting due to the possible repercussions. but if their wives buy the stuff then it would be okay...as long as their buddies don't find out. LOL

I wonder what the stat is on divorced males...

Personally, I am not interested in this line of clothing. I have a couple different styles of underwear, depending on my mood and what is clean. LOL

I do like silk boxers. I can sit around the house in those and still feel dressed enough to answer the door when the religious idiots knock. It might be better if they had buttons on the fly, though.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Barefoot, you wouldn't need buttons on the fly if you weren't happy to see them...

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

I'm confused. Wouldn't being "happy" to see them send them away faster?

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

The grass is sometimes greener on the other side. Lyrics to a superlative tune by the band Uncle Bonsai

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

It might make them even more determined to see that he is...er...reformed...

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Firemouse, you and Carl have the MOST interesting bookmarks--that poem was uproariously funny!

Seems we all have a sense of humor when it comes to sex. I think you all know about my "Let's play Frogman and Admiral's Wife" greeting and the whatsername's Saran Wrap caper. ;)

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Keep it up guys and gals!

I'm trying to plan a little romantic evening with hubby once he returns home this weekend (if I can get son to a sleepover). Wanted to surprise him with a little "extra spice", but somehow I doubt that lingerie for him will do the trick. Hell, he'd run for the door and a deployment for the next 50 years.

Seriously, I'm thinking of getting a hotel room with a whirlpool for us to spend a little time getting to know one another again. ;)

Ideas, I need ideas!

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

My husband once met me at the front door dressed in Christmas wrapping paper (like a sarong). He gave it that "he-man" touch by fastening it with half a roll of duct tape :)

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

You mean ALL women don't wear those silky silly boxer shorts?? Hell, I live in them. Down here in Florida all the gals wear them not as underware, but as regular shorts. I know gals who go to work in them. Tell me, where can you get such light weight, cool, printed, inexpensive shorts as in men's wear at WalMart?? The funny thing is that Chubby Hubby has NEVER worn boxers in his life and doesn't even realize that is what I am wearing. LOL

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Jeez, glad somebody can post topics like this without "perhaps we could start a trend with news not related to the lower torso, or cats."

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2001

Can you get this underwear in a cat print?

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001

OG,

If I hadn't packed up the sewing machines already, I did see some cute cat material. I could have made him a pair of boxers.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001

Gawd, I forgot. I bought some material printed with bananas to make a pair of shorts for Sweetie! (You know what they say--she who dies with the most fabric wins.)

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001

Well, I've got packed up the fabric that isn't in the chest-of- drawers, and I'd give a good faith estimate that I've got 500 lbs that was in the rubbermaid containers (Huge ones). I had to take most of it out and put into boxes, as you couldn't move the containers. I don't need no stinking wallpaper anywhere, I'll just cover everything in fabric!

In packing some of it into boxes, I have found that I bought the same piece of fabric 3 times. Guess I liked it. LOL

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001

At first I kept waiting because I thought I'd lose some weight. Didn't happen! A lot of the space is taken up by Polar Fleece. I had made us each a floor-length robe to snuggle in; guess I'll make us some more. When I get a round tuit, lol. But now Sweetie has a job and I can have Cecilia at least twice a month, maybe more if I get typing work, well, I may have some sewing time.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2001

Approx. 94% acetate and 6% lycra fiber content in a knit, is wonderful! You can lose or gain weight and still be able to wear the garment. Since OG and Sheeps sew, you might think of using this material for pants, T-shirts, long dresses for lounging in the house or to wear just about any where.

My favorite fun thing to wear around the house at night is a white cotton T-shirt with Tweety Bird on the front and a pair of large yellow Tweety Bird slippers. I just bought a pair of big white long haired cat slippers, you know the kind with the face in front, tail in back and four paws sticking out...sooo cute. A person can't take themselves too serious when your wearing these on your feet! Yes, ....I'm easily amused.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

Snort! When we first got married, Sweetie had a pair of Bugs Bunny feet and I had a pair of bear claws! I have several big T-shirt sleepers, the latest of which is a Pink Panther one.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

I guess that I'm out of it. My summer inside/sleepwear outfit is a one piece flowered cotton shortie gown from Sears (or was it Target?).

Do you think that I'll have better luck with attracting men if I switch to a tee shirt with a picture of some sort on it? Or should I just buy all the single men I know some silk boxes and see if any of them care to model them for me?

Then again, maybe I should just unplug the computer for a few days and go work my fanny off at the State Fair, which starts tomorrow. I pulled two booth-sitting jobs (one pay/one volunteer), so if things break right, I'll never have to pay for parking or admission this year!

I love the Ohio State Fair! The people watching opportunities alone are worth the price of admission.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

Meemur, your luck might change if you wear your inside/sleepwear to the fair while you work.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

LOL, Barefoot! I should. But I won't go sans panties as one lady does who typically wears a long cotton skirt and halter top to this event. Wouldn't want to get the horses too excited. 9;

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

One of the ladies where I work actually went to the web site for this. We've all got a good chuckle this afternoon.

In case you are interested in checking out the store for this article, go here .

It only gets more wierd.

Sheeple

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

I figure any guy who can't handle my flannel pajamas with the glow-in the-dark alien heads printed on it, is not worth the bother.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

Firemouse,

Of all the things I sleep in, I think that one old white flannel gown is my husbands fav. He loves it on those cold winter nights. I prefer silk myself, and don't dare ware the flannel in the summertime here, no matter how much he loves it.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

Old Git, glad to hear you and your husband have the same sense of humor.

Firemouse, I totally cracked up when I read your post!

Meemur, you know single men?!!! Around here, the only single guys are tooooo young or tooooo old!

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2001

I think my husband was so glad to have me bury Ralph the cat in my beloved mustard knit shirt (I look lousy in mustard, I'll admit that, but it was soooooo comfy), that he is willing to consider other fashion transgressions more leniently.

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2001

I don't look so hot in mustard, either, but I look quite tasty in hollandaise sauce.

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2001

Anybody tried that new purple catsup?

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2001

Hey Meemer...would I know this person in a long cotton skirt??? hhehehehehehehhehe

-- Anonymous, August 03, 2001

Maggie, I know lots and lots of single men in all age groups. But I was just kidding about modeling the undies. Many have relocated to Cols because they suffer from GWS or various other ills, and Columbus is home to some of the best/most affordable MDs and shrinks outside of Boston/Houston/NYC. Unfortunately, when they get their ailments under control, they tend to move to places such as Tampa or Phoenix.

SAR, I'm sure a lot of us wander around sans panties from time to time. The one lady I was referring to is from Ada, OH, where she raises horses, llamas, and rabbits. One year, she had a series of yeast infections (they disappeared when she went off the pill) and gave up undies entirely for the summer.

-- Anonymous, August 04, 2001