I noticed mention of Qabala in the numerology thread. John, you asked about it. Does anyone have experience with Qabala in the new age sense? Or even studied it from the standpoint of Jewish mysticism? I read a very simplified book about new age Qabala recently and thought it quite interesting. It seemed as though it could get quite complex if someone decided to study it diligently. Just wondered if anyone had studied it or knew much about it?

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Answers

httpp://members.tripod.com/zero-point/qulspl/qblsp2.html

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

http://members.tripod.com/Zero-Point/qblsp/qblsp

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Oh! It don't take you there! I don't get it , I don't get it. I used to be able to give links, I've lost some of my electrical wires or something! I mean me, not my computer! It's a cool site Denise all about the Quabala, do a search, you will get there. Love TRen

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Thanks for the site Trendle! I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with it or knows someone who does. Or what someone who has read about it thinks.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Wow Denise, what a big question! I haven't studied the Qabala directly, but I have brushed up against it in some of my other studies. I tend to think of the Qabala as a giant metaphysical filing cabinet. Just about any concept can be associated with the different branches of the tree of life. Back when I was studying tarot many years ago the instructor really got into the correlations of the sephira (sp?) with the different cards in the major arcana. In "Anatomy of the Spirit" Carolyn Myss correlates the chakras with the sephira and the Christian sacraments.

Thread drift: The local newspaper is going to be running a story in their "Faith and Values" section tomorrow about the place of magic in Christianity. Knowing the editorial biases of the paper, I'm not expecting anything deeper than a "Are you a good Christian if you let your children read Harry Potter?" fluff piece, but a girl can hope, can't she? :)

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Hi Denise: I've studied the Kabbalah some, mostly from the viewpoint of the characteristics it seems to share with the Hindu/Buddhist chakra system.

Sherri gave a pretty good summary of what its about but I'd suggest, if you're gonna get into it look for some material thats less new agey. Stuff by Israel Regardie is good and some others whose names I don't recall right now.

I don't mean to beat up on the new age movement because theres some good stuff within it but my general attitude is cautious. I'd also avoid stuff by Aliester Crowley. Tho he was a serious student of the Kabbalah he was too much of a self promoting grandstander to be a reliable source of good info. He was KNOWN to be a prankster and thats too serious of stuff to be fast and loose with the facts and truth.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Thanks for your ideas. I read a very simplified book about the qabala from a very new age perspective. It seemed to have much to offer but at the same time seemed to have so many interpretations of things that were just "too new age'" for me. I'm going to find the author you mentioned, John. It would be interesting to see the difference between the two approaches. John, how did kabbala fit into hindu/buddhist belief when it is rooted in the Jewish religion? The more I look at this thing it seems to be so big and associated with so many different religions. Do you think it's as complicated as it appears to be? Where are you Diane? I thought you might know something about this also.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Sorry Denise, If I know anything about this, I sure don't know that I do. I remember doing some comparative studies MANY years ago but Qabala is a new term to me and quite honestly the only thing I know about numerology was some sort of add up the numbers and divide things that we did back in high school and let me tell you THAT was a LONG time ago!!!!!!! When the garden is done, the barn is full of hay and the wood is cut and stacked...............then I will have some time to do some research again and I have obtained from this forum a HUGE reading list for winter.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Since you asked Denise I'll give it a go.

I've heard of Carolyn Myse but haven't read anything by her so the following are my own observations.

First, a brief description of the chakras.

There are seven of them. You probably know this already but for the sake of those who don't the word chakra means wheel in Sanskrit. They are wheels of energy aligned along the spinal column. It is thru the chakras that we are connected to the greater consciousness.

Beginning from the bottom chakra

Muladhara, the Earth or root chakra, identified with Brahma, one of the Hindu trinity, who sez essentially "I CREATE and I AM". Graphically symbolized by a square or sometimes a square with a triangle within it.

Svadisthana, the Water chakra, associated with the moon, and symbolized by a crescent or a circle

Manipura(aka), the fire chakra, symbolized by a triangle

Anahata chakra, symbolized by a six pointed star or the Seal of Vishnu, who sez "I PRESERVE AND PROTECT", another of the Hindu triune God.

These are the elemental chakras, the elements of life.

The next three are what might be called the supernal chakras in that they refer to the non material realms of consciousness.

The next is the ether chakra, ether-the substrata of the material universe

The Ajna chakra, the third eye

and last in ascending order is the Saharasa chakra, associated with Siva, who sez "I DESTROY", the last of the Hindu triune. Combined they are BRAHMAN, the unified triune God.

Now the Kabbalah and the tree of life. The most common tree of life graphically is the Hermetic version. Thats the one I'm most familiar with and most likely the one you're familiar with.

The first sephiroth, beginning in ascending order is Malkuth, called the Kingdom, associated with Earth, sometimes called the soul of the messiah and symbolized by a circle divided into four quadrants.

The second sephiroth, Yesod, associated with water and symbolized by a crescent or a circle

the third, hod on the left and netsah on the right. I don't know what the graphic symbols or the hebraic associations with the elements of creation for these two but one could reasonably argue that since it is the first "level" in the tree of life that has two sephiroth, and that "two" are required to make "heat" or energy, thus fire, but thats not a classic understanding as far as I know.

The fifth sephiroth at the fourth "level, is Tiphareth, associated with air and called Grace, symbolized by the six pointed star or the star of David.

Now the commonalities between the Chakras and the Kabbalah

There are seven chakras and although there are ten sephiroth, if you draw a horizontal line across each "level" there are seven levels. Muladhara/Malkuth both representing the Earth element, in each system the aspect of four is represented by their respective graphic symbols.

Svadisthana/Yesod, both represented by the Water element, each symbolized by a circle and crescent,

Since I'm not aware of any classic Hebrew connection to fire and hod and netsah I won't include it here.

Anahata/Tiphareth-Represented by the element AIR, and in each system graphically represented by a six pointed star.

In Hinduism it is said the Kundalini serpent fire resides in the cave of Brahma. When aroused it will ascend the spine, piercing and purifying each of the seven Chakras. It will ascend along one of three channels. They are called Ida, Pingala, Sushumna.

Note, three channels or paths ascending from Malkuth in the tree of life.

Also, note in the the bible there is more than one reference to the "four corners of the Earth", which ties it in pretty neatly with the graphic symbol for the Earth within the Hindu system.

There is evidence that Vedic culture dates back at least 6000- 7000yrs. As far as I know Judaism goes back only 3500-4000yrs. To me it seems quite likely that the ancient Hebrews picked up on the Chakra system, then modified it to suit their own understanding. Personally, I believe the seven seals referred to in the book of revelations refers to the chakras.

I've also read there was some exchange of information between the Zoroastrians and the ancient Hindus. The Zoroastrians were from Persia and the home of the magi.

Its pretty amazing really when you think the ancient Vedic culture was contemporary with early dynastic Egypt.

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

Hey guys, this is interesting!Thanks! Tren

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

I meant to ad, the Hindu alphabet and the Hebrew alphabet are similar to me in that they each, according to the respective systems, allocate divine attributes to the specific sounds represented by the letters and I think I read somewhere they each assign a number to each of the letters in their alphabet. I know the Hebrews do but I'm not real sure about the Hindus. Visually they even look similar to me, tho one has 22 letters and the other is 50 something.

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

Thanks John for all of that information. Yes, I was aware of the chakras but not in the context of the sephiroths. I am becoming more and more amazed at the similarities between different religions and cultures. It's funny that you mentioned the divine and numerical assignments that the Hebrew and Hindu cultures gave their alphabets. I've been reading a book lately where it was brought to my attention that the Greek alphabet also had numerical and sound assignments for each symbol. The kabbala was brought up in this book also along with alot of sacred geometry (hexagons divided into 15 degree segments, with all kinds of lines drawn through them to make triangles with the basis of the hex being a circle surrounded by 6 circles of equal size and somehow this represents the throne of God and is also representative of the atom)that sort of has me confused. Although I'm not exactly sure I understand how it is all related it seems that there is much more of a relationship between all of these areas,mathematics, cultures, and religions than meets the eye. To tell you the truth, the mathematics part of all of this is difficult for me understand. It's never been my strong point. Somehow the Tree of Life in the Kabbala fits into this grid of lines and triangles but I wouldn't be able to explain how if my life depended on it!

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

I think Carl Jung was onto the basic gist of the whole thing with the archtypes ideas he had. All these different systems had several things in common and one of them is the fact that they are SYSTEMS.

Personally I think they're trying to "diagram" the mechanics of consciousness and the path from birth to NOW has been archtypally created as is the path back to higher self.

There is a fundamental mechanism at work here and the most basic layer is transcendent of culture, society, time and place. One side of that coin is primordial ignorance (the dark side) and the other is divine wisdom, the Light.

A theory: We're born with a blank slate, a newborn body with out previous sensory stimuli and also without the attendent emotional reactions to stimuli, all of which is responsible for the "conditioning" of our minds. This "conditioning" process occurs on a foundation of beliefs formed from the sensory stimuli AND the desire for survival and the fear of death, both sides of the death coin.

All this stuff is represented in our minds as discrete geometric patterns, archtypal gestalts. These various discrete and independent patterns, being energetically created thru our fears and desires, is the mechanism of Maya as far as I'm concerned and perhaps even "original sin".

These various systems attempt to "define" and identify the various archtypes with a particular emphasis on identifying and describing the "divine" archtype, thus the commonalities. The perrenial philosophy emerges because it attends to the eternal within the transitory and eventually leads us to love, the ultimate survival strategy.

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2001