I am glad I quit eating meat long, long ago and far away.

For those of you who still partake, or have eaten meat in the last five or ten years, or who have gotten, or expect to get, blood transfusions, you should educate yourselves on this topic.

Here is an excerpt from an American Red Cross explanation of this potentially widespread problem:

It is unclear as to whether this now small-scale human epidemic which has thus far spared our continent will remain small and contained, or will become a major global epidemic in the years ahead. Without a reliable blood test to detect those infected but not yet clinically ill, we have no knowledge of the size of the human reservoir of vCJD that currently exists in any population. Since people travel widely throughout the world that reservoir is not likely to be limited in any one place.

For the rest of the story, go to: http://www.redcross.org/services/biomed/blood/supply/tse/bsep olicy.html

This is very seriously scary shit!

JOJ

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Answers

Joe, I would like to read the story but get this message when I try your link.....................This page cannot be found. The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

Did you happen to copy it for your own use??? If you did perhaps you would paste it here so we could all read it.

you say "For those of you who still partake, or have eaten meat in the last five or ten years, or who have gotten, or expect to get, blood transfusions, you should educate yourselves on this topic."

Was there something people could do??? Or was your point to just scare the hell out of everyone and go Nah nah nah???? Perhaps you could elaborate??? diane

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Diane, there is a space in the URL that JOJ posted. I think that happens when we're typing stuff in and the screen does the "word wrap" thing. Anyway, I'm leaving it so you can see what I mean, and posting a working link here: Link

Haven't read it yet, so maybe I'll be back later to comment.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Thanks for the help, Joy.

Diane, sorry if you thought I was being smug. The fact is, there is nothing you can do if you've already "caught" the disease. It's unlikely that you have. The ARC's article seems to be wake up call, though. Know the history of your beef. Don't ever eat beef from a cow which has been artificially tricked into being a carnivore. Inform your friends and family.

I guess my main point is that there has been very little publicity on this, as it is either no big deal, or is in its early years. Either way, I was trying to get information on blood donations, and this was one of the issues given me by the ARC.

It appears that the press, and especially the FDA, are not doing as much to publicize or regulate this potential problem as they could do.

JOJ

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

I personally think that the actions of the Red Cross are uncalled for and ill-advised. Leukoreduction is a much simpler solution that would not jeopardize the nation's blood supply. I spent 8 years working in the blood banking industry, the people who come out with these regulations are much more concerned with protecting themselves from lawsuits than they are with protecting public health. The risk of injury or death due to needed procedures being postponed due to blood shortages is greater than the risk of ever contracting vCJD from a transfusion, but the public doesn't see it that way.

For another view of the whole Mad Cow issue: Environmental Cause for Mad Cow Disease?

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Thanks for that link, Sherri. I have read the research done by Purdey on organophosphates and his theories, but I hadn't heard about it being from excessive manganese (and insufficient copper). I really hope someone figures out soon how these diseases (BSE, scrapie, C-J) are caused. To me, that is the scariest thing -- that no one REALLY knows what the cause(s) is/are. How can you protect yourself, if you don't know where it's coming from? And if it's excessive manganese, that's even harder to figure out if it's been affecting the meat that you're eating!

So far, it hasn't been proven that C-J is transmittable by blood transfusion. One more piece to puzzle over.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Well, reading it all, I would have to say that there are so many other things going on that are "seriously scary shit" that I have a hard time chosing what to be seriously scared of. Sorry Joe, it was a little hard for me to not think you were being smug after cruising all the boards this morning. I should have given you the benefit of the doubt.

I hate to see the alarms ringing when the blood supply is fragile at best, but then after the whole AIDS fiasco who can blame the Red Cross for being very careful. It appears to be a catch 22 situation where they will be damned if they do and damned if they don't. Having been on the receiving end of a couple of the "sue-them all" lawsuits from our sue-happy society, I can certainly understand their position. CYA medicine will be here as long as it is needed to protect people that are just trying to do a decent job.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Sherri, thanks for adding this extra perspective on this subject.

I read the article about these two gentlemen who are challenging the currently accepted theories. Generally speaking, I am sympathetic with alternative thinking, and I'm glad these two guys are doing their research.

Overall, however, I'm unconvinced by their arguments. First, this Purdey guy cites the fact that on his organic farm, and others where no organophosphates were used, mad cow disease was never found. This, he claims, is evidence that the organophosphates played a part in the spread of the disease.

But it seems likely to me that these organic farms also did not feed their cows any feed contaminated with cow meat.

Also I haven't seen a correlation between people getting mad cow disease and people having organophosphates painted on their spines.

I don't deny that these two guys' theories have potential; I don't accept them as true, though, without a lot more study. Hopefully they'll get funding if the funders find their theories credible.

I find it interesting that the ARC won't accept blood from a person who has lived in England for more than three months, or was it six, EVEN THOUGH SAID PERSON IS A VEGETARIAN. Why do you suppose that is?

JOJ

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

JOJ wrote: "Also I haven't seen a correlation between people getting mad cow disease and people having organophosphates painted on their spines."

I'm confused! Who is painting organophosphates on people's spines and why? I sure wouldn't let them do that to ME.

Also: "I find it interesting that the ARC won't accept blood from a person who has lived in England for more than three months, or was it six, EVEN THOUGH SAID PERSON IS A VEGETARIAN. Why do you suppose that is?"

Because people lie. Would they lie about this? Sure, people lie about anything and everything (even if no one can figure out WHY). You could say that they would lie about having BEEN in England, but I'm sure they can track that through passports and/or visas. BTW, I'm not implying that everyone would lie, but some would. I think lying is a sport with some people . . . .

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

Sorry, Joy, the organophosphate bit was from Sherri's most interesting link (see above). One theory was that the organophosphate painted on cows (or was it sheep?) I was merely stating that, since people are generally not subjected to this kind of treatment, I didn't see how the explanation explained mad cow disease in humans. Not to worry!

You're probably right about ARC's reasoning being that some people lie. I had assumed that ARC wouldn't go to the trouble to check on a person's whereabouts, though. Do you really think they would (and could) do this? I don't really like to think people could find out how many times I 'd been in various countries, or for how long. Hmm.

JOJ

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

Okay, JOJ, I get it now. I guess I was being dense!

As far as being able to keep track, unless you were slipping across borders without showing ID, passport, etc., I bet they CAN tell where you've been. It would be interesting to know!

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001

Actually, Joy, they could probably find the info on the dadblasted internet, for all I know!

JOJ

-- Anonymous, July 29, 2001

For that matter, they could probably tell if I had bought beef at the market.

JOJ

-- Anonymous, July 29, 2001

Yes, this is scary, but maybe nothing more. Maybe it's one of the reasons a lot of us raise our own meat. That and the fact that intensive meat production is generally inhumane.

As to organophosphates, to my knowledge there has been no official acknowledement or rejection of Purdey's theory. I also know of no proof of MCD being transmissible as CJD, and if MCD is so harmful to humans, what about Scrapie? Too many unknowns for my little brain to send me a panic signal. We lived in England immediately prior to the MCD outbreak, and were certainly exposed to rendered meat products along with 60 million other people. How many confirmed cases?

And, in answer to your point about human exposure to OPs - sheep dips were compulsory in the UK until very recently. This involves the farmer and a helper dragging a fighting sheep through a trough of OP solution. EVERY sheep in his flock! I can only imagine how much OP they splashed on themselves. There were also compulsory sprays for cattle infestations (warble fly, maybe?).

There were a few pretty good threads relating to this subject on Countryside a few months back. Worth looking at if anyone missed them.

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2001

p.s. Meant to add - I heard that Mark Purdey died mysteriously last year. That would make it pretty hard to get funded to follow up his theory!

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2001