You're all tits! The man is a Geordie GIANT

:-)

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2001

Answers

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh PLEASE!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2001

So that makes them Geordie giant knockers?

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2001

Cheers, Jonno. Thanks for the mammaries. Good to get this off your chest. Barton often requires hefty support, underwired by careful analysis. I hope recent criticism has been but a storm in a D cup and he will be back to his breast.

Mind, just where was Senor Barthoni when Nobby got tackled for their 1st goal?

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

Tell me does Warren play on the same side as the rest of the team? And tell me does he dye his eyebrows? Talk about white blonde.....:o)

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

I think he does dye his eyebrows, so at least theres one thing that looks stupider than his passing.

O look lets get ino their half and pass back to the keeper thatll keep em guessing ... hes a waste of space.

kb--

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

I've always supported our Warren on here and I think he has fully justified my support by his performance last night. When they scored he obviously thought that nobby would put his foot through the ball and help him defend. He can't be in all places at once you know. By the way he doesn't dye his hair or his eyebrows he's a natural blonde just like him mum.

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

I think you'll find Barton was not diving into the tackle as per Frank Clark. There is no point diving in and potentially giving away a penalty in tight situations like that.

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

Yep wasnt diving wasnt passing forward wasnt really doing anything POSITIVE.

If hes the best weve got god help us, Ive never seen a more negative player , even when he attacks hes negative.

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

Spit that bile out and just admit that he had a good game last night. If the most damning thing anyone can come out with is that he passed the ball back to Given from the half way line then kindly refrain from whinging about him "aimlessly hoofing the ball into the box" when nothing is on. You can't have it both ways and he was part of a back 3 until Caldwell was on so no doubt he would have been damned for wandering off out of position had he tried to do something more positive than keep posession. If you want to hate someone regardless of what they actually do then you'll find a way. Seeing as how the first goal we conceded was all his fault for Solano ballsing it up and him not realising that a player so gifted would f*ck up something as simple as getting rid the ball from a dangerous position, I assume the second was also his fault because he didn't clear it off the line?

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

Barton didn't play badly last night, but he didn't stand out anymore than many of the others.

A B+ team performance, a straight B personal performance

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

Id give him a C his distribution is pants, he contantly passes backwards EVEN WHEN theres obviously a man on in front.

OK he gives 110% and i just wish some of the players had his heart but 110% of cack is still cack....

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

...but a hell of a lot of cack.

Never mind a C or a B, writ large - "must do better".

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

On Saturday he tried to take his man on when he was last defender and lost the ball: Lockeren should have scored and he got a right bollocking off Bobby. Last night he found himself in the same position and passed it back to Given: must do better and did do better. If you vilify him for Saturday then you must appreciate when he learns from his mistakes. I agree with all remarks about last night being a good but not excellent performance, but Barton was not noticeably worse than anyone else and should be included in the praise for the defence as macbeth has done, despite being one of Barton's strongest critics.

Just give all of them a clean slate every game, if you start off by seeing Barton's name on the sheet and automatically saying "Oh bollocks that useless c**t Barton's in ahead of Griffin again!" then it's pretty likely that he's not going to go anywhere in your estimation but down.

p.s. My violent dislike of Kieron Dyer is covered by a completely different set of rules ;-)

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

Barton is a defender and there's little mention of his defensive ability last night. Several very important interceptions and headers. Once at least isolated as the last man (presumably by his more positive defensive colleagues)and up against 2 strikers. Forced the first one to play it to his mate and then made a lightning recovery to challenge and force the guy to shoot well wide. A 0-1 situation averted by superb positional and defensive play, taking out 2 strikers. That is a contribution to the result almost equal to Nobby's goal.

Barton has been with us for 5 years. During that time he has been the first choice of ALL FOUR of the managers he has played under. During that time there has been very little talk about getting a replacement for that position, although we did get Griffin who looks set to take over when he can learn to be as fit as the "negative" Barton. YBR, who walks on water, and is the most experienced manager in the game, selects Barton regularly and made him captain last night. Barton had an excellent game defensively in an unfamiliar role.

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

He must look great in training then! When he walks onto the pitch it all falls apart!

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

longevity at the club doesn't make you a good player.

Phil Neal won more medals than any other British player (or had by the end of his career), he got stacks of England caps. Gary Neville is consistently in the Man U team, winning bucket loads of medals, and is also a first choice for lots of England managers. Neither of these guys would be held up as classy players and I would guess have been mocked by all of us at some point.

Barton tries hard, tries to learn but isn't good enough for us. He will have okay games, as he did the other night, but he's one of the senior pros and he should never be worse than okay and should be good all the time, that's what senior pros are supposed to bring to the table. Just look at Gary Speed and his consistency as one of the other senior pros. (Sorry Swift)

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

longevity at the club doesn't make you a good player.

I've never heard you express a weaker argument Mac. IF there were a problem with Barton's position then surely one of our 4 managers would have attempted to address it?

Now this isn't a murder trial and I agree that longevity would not automatically prove anything beyond all reasonable doubt but I put it to the jury, that the overwhelming weight of OPTA and circumstantial evidence points inexorably, in favour of my client.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Longevity can prove you're unsellable (thinking Des Hamilton here) although managers have consistently picked Wozza...

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

I'm not a Barton Basher, honestly, but 2 of the 4 managers were pants, and I question their judgement (Disco Des, Marcelino, Pistone, Maric etc). KK had more money than sense at times. That leaves YBR whose options are Aaron Hughes and Griffin. AH is a better centre half and Griff spends 6 months of the year in traction.

Although Wozza is not the worst player we've ever had, cover for the forward line, and left midfield is arguably more pressing.

On the plus side, he knows how to impress a manager, usually has at least an average game defensively and is available for selection most of the season.

As they say in Jockland, case not proven.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

I think the retention of Barton for this long is a sad indictment of the four managers involved. Keegan couldn't buy a good defender for love nor money. Dalglish bought dozens of them and Gullit even bought Marcelino so it's difficult to suggest they are the greatest judges. Robson seems to like the commitment of Barton, which is fine, that isn't what any one is arguing about.

Steve Watson was better but had a resale value so Gullit cashed in. Charvet was preferred but again had resale value. Griffin was bought but has been injured. I would suggest the reason that Barton has survived so long is that no one else would buy him and we are just stuck with him.

I have seen Griffin play a game meriting 9 out of 10 (cup semi may even have been higher ?), apart from the Cup match against first division Crystal Palace I don't believe Barton has ever given a performance that good.

OPTA is nonsense and you know it is. As an example, Scmeichel never did well on it as he little opportunity to make saves. Of the 23 stats for Gary Neville and Warren Barton last season, Neville was better in 20 of them, Warren better in two (tackles won and blocks) and they were the same on one. Neville played in more games but a lot of that was probably due to only having one booking rather then 6 and a sending off.

What is the circumstantial evidence in Barton's favour ? He was one of the players who played through the longest stretch of non-clean sheets we've ever had. (I know there were 4 or 5 others in that defence but he was the senior member).

It isn't a personal thing for me, it's just that I demand better than Warren Barton as a first choice player. While we have the likes of him, and the other journeymen in the side, we will never get above mid-table. It is easy to hang on to him but to do so means we aspire to nothing better.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

MacBeth, I really adore Wozza as a lad and normally defend him, but I have to say that, on age difference alone, Griffin should be chosen, as at his age, Wozza is never going to be part of the future of this club (other than, I sincerely hope, a coaching role) while Griffin might well be.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Warren got really nice hair, much nicer than that Griffin lad who looks like that mass murderer from a few years back.(wadshisnameagain?) I can see myself becoming a Barton fan if he keeps up his "not to bad" performances.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Ooh, Do I spot a disagreement brewing in the number 1 Clique?

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Who's in the #1 clique? Am I in the #2 Clique or will I have to start my own.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Rik you've always been a clique of your own

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Steve Watson was better

Check the OPTA stats .... Oh no they're useless as I "know" apparently. I accept that OPTA is not perfect but it's a bit rich to chose a goalkeeper as your example when the GK's performance is measured on entirely different criteria. Opta is a useful guide - you wouldn't use it to buy a player but it gives you some measure of a player's involvement. It also indicates a player's succesful passes ratio which is a reasonably effective measure of his distribution.

Of the 23 stats for Gary Neville and Warren Barton last season, Neville was better in 20 of them

So now you're using the OPTA stats - so is OPTA "nonsense" or not?

Griffin is a very promising player and should start to eclipse Barton during this season. He'll have to do better than he has done so far in the "keep fit" category. Barton, I predict, will not moan and will carry on playing for his place like the true professional he is. If the rest of the team had his attitude and character we would have done MUCH better in recent seasons.

Barton gives his all in every single game he plays. If that is not good enough - blame the manager who keeps picking him and not the man who has given his all for this club. No-one can do better than their best and Barton ALWAYS gives that (unlike one or two others).

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

Having just watched the tape of the Munich game, I actually thought Barton was our best defender. Conversely, I thought Dabz was pants, and imho we still need a commanding centre half.

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001

No I don't want to use the OPTA stats as, in the case of goalies example, they don't necessarily work. I only quoted the Neville stats cos I'd seen someone pick out one figure (distribution maybe) and say it showed Barton was better. If Barton is better than Neville you'd expect him to at least match him in OPTA stats if you have any belief in them at all.

Hughes marked Hassler all night, was only caught out of position when Solano gave the ball away and it was passed quickly through to Hassler. Barton then backed off him (jockeying ?) until he was in the area and he couldn't dare tackle him, and then he centred. I am all for not diving in, as it leaves you for dead if you miss the tackle (Wayne Quinn should note that one) but there is no point no diving in and let the player get to the box and send in a centre, he really might not have bothered being there.

I am making these comments on the back of earlier saying he played okay, cos he did, but just as comments have been made that he should be praised for passing back rather than losing the ball, and learning from the previous game, then he must be criticised if he lets a player run into the box unchallenged. Praise where it's due and criticism where it's due.

-- Anonymous, July 28, 2001