This is the archive of the responses I've received on DIY repair of eos 5/A2 command dial, a thread now has been purged from the photo.net forum. Thanks to N.K.Guy pointed me here.

Well the command dail on my eos 5 finally jammed and I can tell something will break if I force it to turn. Thanks to Jim Strutz's tip in a previous thread I was able to fix it by myself. It wasn't that difficult. All you need is a small screwdriver with phillips head which can be bought for $1.68 at walmart pharmacy(eyewear accessery). First remove the left side panel(two screws), another piece of plastic(door lock) right under will also come off, remember to hook up the spring when reassemble. Now remove the front panel, six screws, 3 surrounding the lens mount, 2 in the battery chamber, 1 in flash chamber. To take off the top panel, remove 2 screws under eye relief(push upward it will silde off), 1 screw inside the battery chamber and 1 near the strap hook. The timer and flash activating button will probably drop out, no big deal just put them back when reassemble. Now you can look at that god damn command dial. There is a little spring underneath, which is the trouble maker. Get rid of it and you are touble free. By doing so the dial will rotate with no click stops (except at lock position)and the program modes(portrait, sport, etc) no longer available(I never use them) but other functions work perfectly. Hope this helps.

-- Aaron Rocky, July 23, 2001; 12:59 P.M. Eastern Answers

The image is what's under the hood. The spring(red arrow) jammed the wheel. The bottom right corner is a disk shape switch which is control by the dial through that little stick(blue arrow). Sorry for the fuzzy image, my Kodak DC4800 doesn't have manual focus.

-- Aaron Rocky, July 23, 2001; 05:59 P.M. Eastern Attachment: Dcp_0249.jpg

This is definitely good to know if you're in a jam and need a fix in a hurry so I agree with Steve to post this on the review page. However, some questions come to mind . . . Would this fix invalidate a pro shop repairing back to the normal operation? And can I assume you tested all the other modes? This fix would probably be fine for most of us here but if I ever wanted to sell, I'll bet the buyer will want the dial to perform as per the way Canon intended.

-- Keith Van Hulle, July 23, 2001; 06:49 P.M. Eastern

i fixed mine myself too, thanks to helpful advice i found in the archives and from emailing the people who said they had fixed theirs. i don't know if i would advise this for everyone though. i accidently removed the entire lensmount before realizing that this was not neccessary for the procedure--oops. everything seems to still work o.k.

-- Josh Hansen, July 24, 2001; 08:48 A.M. Eastern

>>By doing so the dial will rotate with no click stops (except at lock position)and the program modes(portrait, sport, etc) no longer available(I never use them) but other functions work perfectly.<< I'm very confused. My EOS5 dial broke two weeks ago, and this is exactly what it's doing. Judging by my camera and past postings on the problem, this "repair" is identical to the dial's behaviour once it breaks.

-- Anne Pohli, July 24, 2001; 11:11 A.M. Eastern

No need to remove those four screws ON the steel lens mount. I'll add some pictures of the screw locations. Also make sure to use the right tool so you don't damage the groove on those tiny screw head otherwise SOL. Small hand with nimble fingers helps. As I said all kind of trouble is caused by that deformed spring, I guess at first it jammed the dial so that people usually feel sticky at the beginning but if you force it the spring might give way and that's why some people reported what Anne just said. As long as it remains there, someday it will get in the way again. You'll see what I mean if you look at that place yourself.

-- Aaron Rocky, July 24, 2001; 12:07 P.M. Eastern

this is the root of the problem. the spring and the detent ball. canon did not get the spring stiffness right and the size of the detent ball was not quite perfect either. as a result--we the consumers suffer. i must admit that i love the camera though--such a great camera for the price--just wish it didn't have this one flaw.

-- Josh Hansen, July 24, 2001; 01:26 P.M. Eastern

Aaron, Great information. I expect to have to make this repair shortly myself. But I'm curious. If you're just removing the detent spring, why are the program modes no longer available? I must confess, I sometimes used them. Thanks again for some great info!

-- phil winter, July 24, 2001; 03:44 P.M. Eastern

Sorry Phil, I have no idea. After removing the spring, the dial won't turn past the square below the red 'L', something must be going on underneath. I didn't investigate further. There might be other way to fix it without removing the spring and probably you'll keep all the functions working.

-- Aaron Rocky, July 24, 2001; 04:14 P.M. Eastern

Jim Strutz (j.strutz@gci.net) responded to a message you requested notification for in the General (Not Archived) bboard:

The original Elan/EOS 100 has nearly the same mechanism as the EOS 5/A2 for a Command Dial. They fail fairly regularly. I've fixed a few. A fairly talented individual can do this him/her self, but most people won't/don't want to try. I'll copy the notes I've given to others & paste them into this reply.

First you need to remove the top of the camera. There is a screw inside the flash on the EOS 5/A2 models so pop the flash up before you remove the battery & look in the front of the flash housing. That screw is in front of the flash on the EOS 100/Elan instead. To remove the top cover you also need to remove the front cover (and the door latch assembly on the EOS 5/A2) just to get at all the screws. Don't forget the screw over by the right strap lug, the ones in back beside the viewfinder, and the ones in front under the front cover plate. There is a screw inside the battery housing that holds the top cover as well. When you think you've gotten all the screws out, start wiggling the top cover off. Don't pry it or use too much force. If it seems stuck in some area (it probably will) it's probably a screw that you missed. Keep looking.

Once the top cover is loosed, pull it up and pull the small ribbon cable out of it's connector on top of the mirror housing. The rest of the wires can be left alone for what you need to do. You'll want to have more space & will be tempted to remove more wires. you can if you want, but you really don't need to. Just pull the top cover up and lay it over the front of the camera.

Now you can see the Command Dial. The very small metal detent ball is usually just laying around stuck in the grease somewhere close. The spring that pushes it will still be there as well but it may be twisted. The way it's supposed to work is, the spring & ball are in the center of the Command Dial just under (actually, just above) the metal "lock button" tab piece. The spring is supposed to push the ball into the slots in the metal cage. That provides the detenting action. If the problem is just the detenting is broken you would just need to put the spring & ball back in their positions between the plastic side rails (molded parts of the Dial) & just under (actually, just above) the metal "lock button" tab piece. But if your problem is the plastic rivets that hold the metal piece to the Command Dial are broken, you will need to replace them with very tiny screws. You might be able to find some in old photo equipment, or watch/clock works. I just drilled very small holes for the screws with a tiny drill bit I bought at a jewelry supply store. The I placed all the parts into position and screwed it all back together.

If the spring is still intact you can re-use it, but cut 2 coils off of one end to loosen the tension. That excess tension is one of the main problems with the dial. The little ball is just being pressed too hard into the slots of the cage. If you can't use the same spring find another that has a little less tension. You can use the more common pull-type spring. They are easier to find. Just stretch it out so that it becomes a push-type spring. Also a ball with a LITTLE larger diameter can be used to lessen how far the all goes into the cage. In that case you will want to keep the spring tension high.

After you have the Command Dial back together, you just line the the slot (on the opposite side of the dial from the detent), with the pin sticking up from the rotary switch inside of the camera. Place the top back on & put all the screws back into their right holes. Good as new. Better than new actually, as it shouldn't happen again.

Aaron's problem was with just the detent ball and spring, which he removed. I'd recommend replacing it instead. But many people have a different problem and need to replace the plastic rivets with tiny screws. That's the essence of what Horizon and others do. -------------------------------- Scott -- (bliorg@yahoo.com) responded to a message you requested notification for in the General (Not Archived) bboard:

Mariel - Horizon Electronics does indeed use metal parts to fix this problem. I corresponded with them once (can't find the email), and they explained this, and assured me that the resulting repair is not susceptible to the Canon-esque maladies we're all so familiar with. Recall reading somewhere that the working is somewhat different (no 'clicks' when turning, or some such - someone correct me here, 'cause I'm not sure), but all the functionality is restored. -------------------------------- Aaron Rocky (ar7786@altavista.com) responded to a message you requested notification for in the General (Not Archived) bboard:

Thanks a ton , Jim! But after reading your reply I'm sweating. I thought it was just a spring and I missed that detent ball. Either it dropped out during the repair and I didn't notice, or it still inside the body somewhere and will probably mess up the circuit sometime in the future. Ouch! Another note, the screws are of different length, take notes where they belong.

I guess I just figured out what are the 'rivets' Jim referred to. Are they those two pieces of plastic above and below the center black hole(see pic). Seems that I'm the lucky one, you can actually see only the top rivet is broken therefore my simple fix is possible. Thanks God! I don't think I could do the drill etc. Sorry to say this but I have to agree with Jim that fix it by a pro is recommended.

-- Aaron Rocky (ar7786@altavista.com), July 25, 2001

Answers

Oops, the posting mechanism is a little different here, no chance to add a picture.

-- Aaron Rocky (ar7786@altavista.com), July 25, 2001.

Thanks for posting your experiences. My EOS 5 command dial stated spinning freely about a year ago, and although it still works, there's no guarantee it will stay in the mode I select. The only repair suggested by the local Canon repair center is to replace the top deck with a new part. I don't really want to spend a lot of money to have the same problem come back to haunt me. I was well aware of this potential problem before I bought the camera, but even though I never turned the camera off, the thing still failed!

I guess it's time to dive in there with a screwdriver, and fix it myself.

-- Geoff Doane (geoff_doane@cbc.ca), July 25, 2001.

Cripes! Are there any A2/5 owners out there who *haven't* had the command dial break on them?

Also, as a follow-up to the previous point in this thread - Canon no longer requires you to replace the entire top deck. Apparently they supply just the dial as well to repair shops.

This quoted to me by Cameratechs in Seattle, who do the Canon-style repair, (around $100 US, as I recall) not the Horizon- style repair which involves adding screws to the dial and not replacing it with the Canon part.

-- NK Guy (tela@tela.bc.ca), July 25, 2001.

I just spent $128 to have this stupid problem fixed at a good repair shop (SML on Lincoln in Venice CA & had it back in two days!) Tried to fix myself but screws were too tight and didn't want to risk stripping them. Was aware of the problem but was in "It'll never happen to me" mode. Now ALL functions work but with 'slight' clicks. Hope it's permanent, I need this camera several times a week.

-- Ted Davis (palmawest@mediaone.net), July 25, 2001.

You know. I wonder what Canon's reaction would be to a concerted and polite phone and letter campaign from A2/5/10/ 100/Elan users who have experienced this problem.

You know, if we were all to write a few letters to various Canon contacts, phone Canon's offices and politely express disappointment that Canon has refused to acknowledge this particular design flaw and insists that consumers bear the not insignificant cost of repairing these poorly-designed camera dials. The cameras are excellent pieces of equipment otherwise, so it really is a shame that Canon's policy has been silence.

I bet there's a ton of camera owners out there judging by the comments on photo.net and the EOS list.

-- NK Guy (tela@tela.bc.ca), July 25, 2001.

Yes, there ARE EOS 5 owners who have not had the command dial break on them, but you never hear them complaining....

Mine has not broken. I bought the camera second hand in 1996, and it is still fine. It went through a stage of being very stiff, but returned to normal. I never go into the pic mode section of the dial, and only press the button to remove it from lock mode. I don't press the button to change exposure modes, nor when I return the camera to Lock mode. I do not know if the previous owner had a problem, and it was fixed, or not.

-- Isaac Sibson (Isibson@hotmail.com), August 05, 2001.

The above described procedure is not for the faint-of-heart. Last night I took the screwdriver and opende my EOS-5, since the command dail was getting difficult to rotate after four years. After three hours the result was an EOS-5 with all functions still working, and a free-rotating command dial, due to a jumpy spring, never to be found again. My advice to anyone willing to try the DIY-fix is to take your time for the job, make sure you are not interrupted, to have ample lighting on your desk and to keep track of were exactly the little screws were coming from, since they are different in length and diameter. It is also important to have the right size screwdriver at hand. And most of all, you will need to have lots of patience, especcially with re-assembling the ball, the spring, and the "L"- locking mechanism off the command dial.

-- Peter Bruggemans (p.bruggemans@freeler.nl), February 27, 2002.